Yep. The issue is real and is unflattering. But must be addressed.I'm very glad the organization is recognizing the problem. So many Bostonians want to bury their heads in the sand when it comes to this stuff.
Reports from fans, and acting on those reports, really is all they can do. And obviously they've been doing this. Making this statement is a good way to put the racist shitbags who haven't been caught yet on notice that they won't get away with their garbage in Fenway.How do you even stop or enforce something like this? The only thing they can really do is rely on other fans to report these incidents to security. You can’t send 35,000 fans to sensitivity training before the game.
I mentioned this in another thread, but Breer has decided that a column he wrote ON MONDAY where he admitted that he was ignorant about how bad things could be for POC in Boston means that he's totally in the clear for questioning Jones now.Bert Breer.
The same idiots who lost their minds over NASCAR banning Confederate flags. Fuck them all.Good for the Sox. Unsurprisingly, some of the responses I saw to that tweet were just as terrible as you might expect.
amenThe same idiots who lost their minds over NASCAR banning Confederate flags. Fuck them all.
After somebody called them out, they finally went to "but black on black violence~!!!!" Fun times.Like this fine citizen. How can people think like this?
View: https://twitter.com/anonbill129/status/1270844003295035394?s=20
Well, if the Sox already are banning people, I assume they are able to confirm identity. If so, why not publish their names? That'll put a stop to it.Reports from fans, and acting on those reports, really is all they can do.
Yes, but don’t see how they can enforce lifetime bans like some were suggesting with zero evidence beyond he said/she said. What would prevent anyone from reporting someone falsely? I mean good for the Red Sox to make a statement, but enforcing anything unfortunately seems near impossible. Would be nice if people could just refrain from being pieces of shit.Good statement. They should establish a text protocol for fans to report racist behavior. This is a fan* issue more than an organizational issue.
*Well a human issue.
Facial recognition software is good enough now to apply to lift lines at Whistler (and, I assume, every other resort that Vail owns) for season pass holders.And are lifetime bans even a deterrent for non-season ticket holders? Do they actually stick? If Joey from Revere gets lifetime banned for dropping an N-bomb and shows up to a game a month later, does anyone notice?
Yeah, Boston is worse. Chicago has its own complicated history owing to the Daley legacy (?) and a history of housing segregation, but Boston is still the most racist city on this listRegarding Boston, and it's racist reputation - I've heard this many times before. Is Boston really any worse than say, New York? Chicago? Dallas? Atlanta?
Decent article from after the Jones incident: https://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/adam-jones-stadium-bans-fenway-park-cameras-security-050817Facial recognition software is good enough now to apply to lift lines at Whistler (and, I assume, every other resort that Vail owns) for season pass holders.
So, I think the answer is probably, yes, someone could notice. Do any MLB teams use software for this yet? That I don’t know.
There are lifetime bans for racism in European soccer, that as @HriniakPosterChild notes, seem to also be enforced by facial recognition software. It's clearly possible and almost certainly within the Red Sox's rights to do so.For those calling for the Red Sox to take larger actions, what would those larger actions be? Aside from banning a fan next time this happens, what else should they do?
And are lifetime bans even a deterrent for non-season ticket holders? Do they actually stick? If Joey from Revere gets lifetime banned for dropping an N-bomb and shows up to a game a month later, does anyone notice?
Regarding Boston, and it's racist reputation - I've heard this many times before. Is Boston really any worse than say, New York? Chicago? Dallas? Atlanta? And where is the racism coming from? Is it a problem that extends beyond Mikey and Donnie from Revere? (Mikey and Donnie being those two guys in wife-beaters talking about "fahkin' crazy broads and queeeehz, don't like it, fahk you".)
(And yes, I have a fair amount of contempt for Revere.)
The Sox do have a number you can text during the game to report fan behavior.Good statement. They should establish a text protocol for fans to report racist behavior. This is a fan* issue more than an organizational issue.
*Well a human issue.
In my experience, absolutely.Regarding Boston, and it's racist reputation - I've heard this many times before. Is Boston really any worse than say, New York? Chicago? Dallas? Atlanta?
Spit a little coffee at this one.Bill write English good.
Boston may be more racist, but it is absolutely not as segregated as Chicago.Yeah, Boston is worse. Chicago has its own complicated history owing to the Daley legacy (?) and a history of housing segregation, but Boston is still the most racist city on this list
For starters, it’s probably the most segregated major city in America. Then add in a general steak of Mass-holery, and some long memories of the school busing stuff from the 70s. Historically, I think the Boston experience Is one where each incoming minority group got worked over so hard by the group that had arrived before them, that an instinctual rule developed: “never give anyone a break.” As a result, there’s a level of factionalism present In Boston beyond what you observe in other large cities. Aside from any discussion of race, Boston in the 70s-80s-90s was the only city I've lived in where people would give you wrong directions on purpose.
Yeah, a black and white demographic map of Chicago would look like the start of several citywide chess games.Boston may be more racist, but it is absolutely not as segregated as Chicago.
Granted that this would be purely symbolic, how about a Black Lives Matter Day at Fenway? Obviously that doesn't take the place of more substantial uses of their economic and social clout to address structural racism, but it would at least be a very visible solidarity gesture and a step toward overcoming the perception that calling out white supremacy is a fringe thing.For those calling for the Red Sox to take larger actions, what would those larger actions be? Aside from banning a fan next time this happens, what else should they do?
To the first question--who knows, and does it really matter? If you could find hypothetical metrics showing that Boston is not really the most racist city in the country, but only the 4th or 5th or 10th or 20th most racist city in the country, so what? We still have a problem, and it's still the same problem.Regarding Boston, and it's racist reputation - I've heard this many times before. Is Boston really any worse than say, New York? Chicago? Dallas? Atlanta? And where is the racism coming from? Is it a problem that extends beyond Mikey and Donnie from Revere? (Mikey and Donnie being those two guys in wife-beaters talking about "fahkin' crazy broads and queeeehz, don't like it, fahk you".)
This is a signal to all the fans that the team takes it seriously. They in turn will be more likely to turn in anyone who violates it. It puts violators on notice that they can crawl back in their little holes from now on and STFU or stay away from Fenway. I think it helps. Saying nothing about it certainly wasn't the answer.How do you even stop or enforce something like this? The only thing they can really do is rely on other fans to report these incidents to security. You can’t send 35,000 fans to sensitivity training before the game.
I read it, it's good.Have folks read Shut Out by Howard Bryant? Seems like the right time to finally give it a look.
The Red Sox Foundation does a ton with inner city and disadvantaged youth. From their contributions to the RBI (Reviving Baseball in Inner Cities) program to working with local health organizations to the Red Sox Scholars program, there is a whole lot already being done. Perhaps too quietly? The Home Base program they support gets a whole lot more publicity than these other programs, they need to talk more about these other efforts so folks know they have been doing these as well.For those calling for the Red Sox to take larger actions, what would those larger actions be? Aside from banning a fan next time this happens, what else should they do?
Will add that some of the worst and best have come out in this. When the team put BLACK LIVES MATTER on the scoreboard last week, I know someone that got a note from someone that goes to lots of games pulling the "this is disgusting! i'll never go to a game again!" crap. worst attitude, but best in good riddance. Very similar to the crap I saw when the team started a pride night and raised a pride flag.This is a signal to all the fans that the team takes it seriously. They in turn will be more likely to turn in anyone who violates it. It puts violators on notice that they can crawl back in their little holes from now on and STFU or stay away from Fenway. I think it helps. Saying nothing about it certainly wasn't the answer.
An Ortiz and Pedro statue would be pretty damn sweet. At first I was thinking of one of them together but they each stood alone as arguably the greatest pitcher and money hitter to ever play for the Sox. Individual statues probably fit better.Meanwhile you have Ortiz, who should have had a statue erected on the day he retired, and also Pedro and even Jim Rice as guys maybe wondering "Pesky's got a statue but I don't?"
Are Celtics crowds any different? I've generally assumed that the cultural history of the Celtics -- the first all-black starting lineup -- was in part a reaction to the cultural history of the Red Sox -- super racist team and therefore fans. If you were a Cs fan in the 60s, surely you were buying into the opposite vision for a sports team from the Sox? But I'd bet the lower level of a Cs game is all corporate $ now, which in turn is probably very, very white. [I moved away in the 90s.]In terms of Boston being more or less racist than other cities, as others have noted it doesn't really matter and to a certain extent the reputation of Boston being a horribly racist place is the only thing that really matters. Regardless, one of the aspects of what makes Boston unique in this regard is that there are so few black professionals in Boston (the Daily Show clip mentioned the incredibly disparity in net worth between black families in Boston and white families). It's a real problem and there are things being done to try to address this, but a lot of younger, educated black professionals up and leave the city early in their careers once they get a taste for how few faces they see in professional settings that look like them (my brother-in-law is moving from Boston to LA for exactly this reason). A natural consequence of this is that there are fewer black faces at sporting events, because there are so few black people in Boston with enough disposable income to go to the games. I go to a lot of Sox games and Pats games and at a typical game there are close to zero non-white faces in the crowd. If some chucklehead racist wants to yell the n-word at a player on the field, he sure as shit is going to feel less comfortable doing it if the crowd around him isn't lily white, which is why it is so important for white people to call this shit out and not ignore it.
And the Sox need to be more transparent about what they are doing when these incidents get reported. Who even knew there were 7 reported incidents at Fenway? We wouldn't even know about the Adam Jones one if he didn't mention it. It's uncomfortable but these incidents should be aired publicly and the persons involved (if they can be identified) named.
“Those are just the ones we know about” was the follow up that made me think that number may be low relative to what is actually going on. I am hopeful that the Red Sox statement helps to raise awareness and encourages fans to report racist remarks from other fans. I only go to one or two games at Fenway per year. A fair number of fans spend much of the game pounding beers and acting like idiots. I don’t recall specific incidents where racist comments were made by fans and I’m embarrassed to say that I’m not sure I would have reported it previously but I will now.Also, only 7 reported incidents actually speaks pretty well for the fanbase of a team that draws a couple million fans per year.
I don't have an enormous amount of data on me to back this up, but a part of this is because Boston did not experience the Great Migration the way other major cities, such as Detroit, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cleveland, etc. Outside of a few neighborhoods, like Roxbury and West Medford, there were not an enormous amount of black residents in Great Boston until relatively recently. When I graduated from Waltham High School in 2012, the school had a decent amount of black students, but nearly every single one of them was either an immigrant or the child of an immigrant, usually from Haiti or Africa.In terms of Boston being more or less racist than other cities, as others have noted it doesn't really matter and to a certain extent the reputation of Boston being a horribly racist place is the only thing that really matters. Regardless, one of the aspects of what makes Boston unique in this regard is that there are so few black professionals in Boston (the Daily Show clip mentioned the incredibly disparity in net worth between black families in Boston and white families). It's a real problem and there are things being done to try to address this, but a lot of younger, educated black professionals up and leave the city early in their careers once they get a taste for how few faces they see in professional settings that look like them (my brother-in-law is moving from Boston to LA for exactly this reason). A natural consequence of this is that there are fewer black faces at sporting events, because there are so few black people in Boston with enough disposable income to go to the games. I go to a lot of Sox games and Pats games and at a typical game there are close to zero non-white faces in the crowd. If some chucklehead racist wants to yell the n-word at a player on the field, he sure as shit is going to feel less comfortable doing it if the crowd around him isn't lily white, which is why it is so important for white people to call this shit out and not ignore it.
And the Sox need to be more transparent about what they are doing when these incidents get reported. Who even knew there were 7 reported incidents at Fenway? We wouldn't even know about the Adam Jones one if he didn't mention it. It's uncomfortable but these incidents should be aired publicly and the persons involved (if they can be identified) named.
Ortiz and Pedro should easily have statues all over.Meanwhile you have Ortiz, who should have had a statue erected on the day he retired, and also Pedro and even Jim Rice as guys maybe wondering "Pesky's got a statue but I don't?"
Judging from Hunter's comments, it's pretty much those 7 that get reported and the other 93 get ignored. That's not good.7 is both way too many and also far less than I would have expected.
Good statement from the organization. Hope they can keep backing it up.
Interesting. At least per Wikipedia, Boston was a "second-tier industrial city" during the Great Migration, which made it a less inviting economic opportunity to migrants than these other northeastern cities. At the risk of making a very lightly-baked generalization, maybe Boston's economic heyday peaked earlier and declined earlier as well so that by the time the Great Migration started it was already fading? I'm sure this is the subject of a few dozen books I wish I read.I don't have an enormous amount of data on me to back this up, but a part of this is because Boston did not experience the Great Migration the way other major cities, such as Detroit, Philadelphia, Chicago, Cleveland, etc. Outside of a few neighborhoods, like Roxbury and West Medford, there were not an enormous amount of black residents in Great Boston until relatively recently. When I graduated from Waltham High School in 2012, the school had a decent amount of black students, but nearly every single one of them was either an immigrant or the child of an immigrant, usually from Haiti or Africa.
Since there are less black families in Greater Boston that have long roots in the area or in the USA, there is naturally going to be fewer things like black owned businesses and black professionals, which I think hurts the feeling of inclusiveness in the city. It would also explain why you don't see many black faces at Red Sox or Patriots games; immigrants or first generation Americans are less likely to be big local sports fans, they have their own sports and fandoms that might not be the same as a fourth-generation Red Sox fan.
Interesting. At least per Wikipedia, Boston was a "second-tier industrial city" during the Great Migration, which made it a less inviting economic opportunity to migrants than these other northeastern cities. At the risk of making a very lightly-baked generalization, maybe Boston's economic heyday peaked earlier and declined earlier as well so that by the time the Great Migration started it was already fading? I'm sure this is the subject of a few dozen books I wish I read.
Try bringing up New York's racism on a Yankee or Mets message board, or Chicago's racism on a Cubs or White Sox message board, see how that goes.One thing I think we can all agree on: Boston wins the title of being most defensive about its racism. God forbid you even bring the subject up.