Quick question: What was it that caused the Grand Jury to investigate Sandusky in the first place? (I don't think I have the stomach to read the report.)
Here's the thing: bringing "attention" to child abuse is fine and noble. It's not much of a gesture in my book since everyone knows it happens, but whatever. Nothing wrong with trying to bring it out in the open. But not when there were MANY real world opportunities to stop actual, known child abuse going on in your own community and you not only did nothing about it, but you protected the perpetrator so that you could continue to profit financially. That is what is sick.It's to try to do something positive out of a horrible situation and unite to give attention to the Blue Ribbon Campaign against child abuse, which isn't new and has existed for 22 years. If that's sick, I don't know what to tell you.
This is a very confusing post. Who's the "you" here? The fans, or Paterno? I don't think Paterno is the one pushing the blue-out. And I don't think the fans knew about or protected Sandusky.Here's the thing: bringing "attention" to child abuse is fine and noble. It's not much of a gesture in my book since everyone knows it happens, but whatever. Nothing wrong with trying to bring it out in the open. But not when there were MANY real world opportunities to stop actual, known child abuse going on in your own community and you not only did nothing about it, but you protected the perpetrator so that you could continue to profit financially. That is what is sick.
I know it's a home game, and given Nebraska is also ranked its important in terms of football, but this has the makings of a complete disaster. Especially if Paternos has the balls to show up.Infield Infidel said:You know, they should just cancel the game! and cancel football! then everyone will forget about this and it'll all be better! Let's go play backgammon!
Forget about JoePa. Forget about the coaches, admin, etc. They're all scumbags in this, that's understood.
There are 80 something kids playing this game. There's a whole other team playing too. There are probably 15-25 seniors for whom this'll be their last home game. This shit is already super fucked up for them, so there's nothing wrong with giving them at least an oasis to do what they do.
The people who started the facebook page and are supporting it are the people I was referring to in my original post. They're not the ones who protected the perpretrator to continue to profit financially.Here's the thing: bringing "attention" to child abuse is fine and noble. It's not much of a gesture in my book since everyone knows it happens, but whatever. Nothing wrong with trying to bring it out in the open. But not when there were MANY real world opportunities to stop actual, known child abuse going on in your own community and you not only did nothing about it, but you protected the perpetrator so that you could continue to profit financially. That is what is sick.
It was more recent activity that took place at a high school (where Sandusky helped coach football) that triggered the investigation.Quick question: What was it that caused the Grand Jury to investigate Sandusky in the first place? (I don't think I have the stomach to read the report.)
This.It's all the good he's done that makes this a tragedy in the original sense. This is some fucking King Lear shit right here. Fatal flaw, the seeds of our downfall planted in what brings us success, &c.
Yeah, completely unthinkable a week ago. It won't happen though. They'll clean house. but after they clean house, they are going to have an awful time getting anyone good to coach there. In irony of ironies, would even Al Golden leave Miami's impending doomsday for this?Jennifer Rubin of the Washington Post has a post up suggesting that Penn State football should be disbanded immediately and permanently. Now, Rubin is batshit crazy, but to think even a week ago that someone would be able to suggest it? Wow.
This could be a disaster because Nebraska is good. I think Vegas takes this game off the board.I know it's a home game, and given Nebraska is also ranked its important in terms of football, but this has the makings of a complete disaster. Especially if Paternos has the balls to show up.
The "you" is the school administration, Paterno, McQueary and whoever else knew about Sandusky and did nothing to stop it. If that encompasses others in the city, then so be it. I don't know if it does, but I have a hard time believing that only a handful of people knew for 15+ years.This is a very confusing post. Who's the "you" here? The fans, or Paterno? I don't think Paterno is the one pushing the blue-out. And I don't think the fans knew about or protected Sandusky.
Whatever happens, this is going to be the weirdest game-day atmosphere ever.
I understand what you're saying and why you feel it's galling but it's not that Paterno is a victim. Penn Staters are giving support to him at a time when he arguably needs it the most, in return for all he has given to Penn State in the past. Whether one agrees with that logic or not, I'd think one could at least understand it.I don't agree that the good outweighs his mistakes/at worst intentional coverup, but even assuming it does, is now really the best time to honor the man and his legacy, with child abuse victims coming forward, with the perp still free? Paterno is in no way a victim, and that was what was galling about the show of support.
I could understand, in return for his service and good deeds, not rushing to judgment. Giving him the benefit of the doubt and waiting to hear what he has to say and for more facts to come out before condemning him. Rallying to support, no I don't understand that.I understand what you're saying and why you feel it's galling but it's not that Paterno is a victim. Penn Staters are giving support to him at a time when he arguably needs it the most, in return for all he has given to Penn State in the past. Whether one agrees with that logic or not, I'd think one could at least understand it.
Did anyone catch the comment posted at the end of this article? Chillingly ironic...Story on April 1, 2011...
http://nittanywhiteo...ril-fools-joke/
And they allowed him unfettered access to campus as recently as last week.
To think that this sick bastard was molesting the very kids who looked to him as a savior from the same kind of abuse he was inflicting is depravity of the highest order. This guy should never have been given an opportunity to off himself while out on bail. He deserves a fate much worse, I'm talking a Father Geoghan-style prison curb stomping. Guys like Sandusky end up blowing their brains out hours before trial just to spite everyone. He needs to be on 24/7 suicide watch, don't give him an easy out.A voice to be heard
I myself have attended the Second mile camp. I had attended for three years. I had also become very good friends with sandusky who would take my sister as well as my two brothers to McDonald to eat and then to play grounds to play. In all my years of knowing him Jerry has not shown any signs to me as being a child molester. I Know first hand what those types are like. I was sexually assaulted as a child from the age of 11 to the age of 15 and if I felt very safe and secure arround Jerry doesn't that say something to you all. I was very upset as a child, I had hardly any friends, I felt very insecure about myself and even distanced myself from men including my own father who was trying to help me for fear all men were like the one who ruined my childhood. Jerry helped me to get passed that without ever knowing what was going on. To hear him accused of such a crime is socking to me and I cant believe it . Call me a hypocrite all you want But, I know deep down that Jerry is the last person I could imagine hurting a kid , he helps them. The lord protects those who are innocent and I fell that he truly is. I am twenty-three now and I can only thank Jerry for all he has done for me in the past and pray that he makes it through this trial in life. God Bless him.
sincerely, a girl from the supper, silly,sally, sassy,sissified,star-dreamers girl group.
3 months ago
They started singing Sweet Caroline in support of JoePa.The scene outside Paterno's house has all the charm of a Hitler youth rally.
The girl who wrote that may not have been abused by Sandusky, but she might want to have a little heart-to-heart with her two brothers.Did anyone catch the comment posted at the end of this article? Chillingly ironic...
It's scary to me that you think that, because if you think that, there are thousands of less-intelligent Lions that think that the good outweighs the bad here, rather than 'just' offset.It sucks that he didn't do more about Sandusky and I wish he had, but Paterno has also done so much over the years for the university, the students, the charities, etc., to more than offset his mistakes of this scandal in my mind, even as dispicable as this scandal is.
From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I"It's hard for me to tell you how much this means to me. I've lived for this place, and I've lived for people like you guys and girls, and I'm just so happy to see that you could feel so strongly about us and about your school. The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. Tough life, when people do certain things to you. Anyway, you've been great. Everything's great, all right."
Joe Paterno speaking to a group of students gathered outside his home
wow.Joe Paterno is insane:
From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I
After seeing that video earlier I just had the impression that he is completely clueless to the whole thing. As in he doesn't seem to understand what the big deal is.wow.
wow.
what an idiot. fuck him.
This obviously doesn't excuse (at all) what happened 12 or 9 years ago... but honestly, my impression from that video was less of a calculating football megalomaniac, and more of an old person who just isn't totally there anymore. I don't think he has any concept or understanding of what's going on, other than some vague sense of "a lot of people are mad at me and some kids got hurt"Joe Paterno is insane:
From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I
So bizarre. Some of the reaction, a Paterno pep rally, promises of an investigation with a vague timeline, president MIA, it's like how a program reacts to some lame NCAA recruiting violations, not how a university should respond to allegations of overlooking/covering up a decade of child rape. Like the magnitude is incomprehensible and some are reacting by circling the wagons with no clue what they're actually defending.Joe Paterno is insane:
From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I
Bodog already did, much to my wallet's chagrin.This could be a disaster because Nebraska is good. I think Vegas takes this game off the board.
Paterno has done far more good than harm in his career. But if you have been paying attention, you know that he has a bad habit of minimizing serious allegations.
When Penn State receiver Tony Johnson was arrested for driving under the influence a few years ago, Paterno said he would discipline him "just because I have to send a message to the squad that it is inappropriate to be out in the middle of the week having a couple of drinks."
Police said Johnson had a blood-alcohol level of .136, well above the legal limit.
Before a bowl game against Penn State in 2006, Florida State linebacker A.J. Nicholson was accused of sexual assault. Remember: This was not Paterno's player. He didn't have to say anything.
But he said this: "There are so many people gravitating to these kids. Maybe he didn't know what he was getting into, Nicholson. Somebody will knock on the door. A cute girl knocks on the door. What do you do?
"Thank God, they don't knock on my door. I'd refer them to a couple of other rooms.
"But that's too bad. You hate to see that, you really do. You'd like to see a kid end up his career. And he's a heck of a football player, he really is. It's just too bad. That's all I can say. It's just too bad."
The one retweet not condemning him is disturbingly ironic:I know they are just blindly supporting the guy without thinking too hard, but still, might not want to tweet everything you think:
PeteThamelNYT:
"This is a PSU quarterback. RT @MacQB11: Great to see so many supporters at coach paterno's house."
[/font]abiddlepsu:[font="Georgia] [/font][/color]
[font="Arial"]If I didn't have a toddler and work tomorrow, I'd be there too.#PennStateForever
Judging a region or town by one person's tweets is pretty small-minded.The one retweet not condemning him is disturbingly ironic:
[/size][/font]
And she's not being pithy. She's chock full of tweets blindly supporting JoePa. For that matter, that hashtag is chock full of disturbing tweets. Apparently this whole thing is an excuse to be hugely proud of Penn State. State College, PA is officially a town I never, ever want to set foot in.
Fuck ... why have I never heard about Don Fitzpatrick before?Judging a region or town by one person's tweets is pretty small-minded.
Our own beloved Red Sox evidently has a similarly sick story in its past.
http://m.espn.go.com...storyId=7208029
That comment goes WAY too far. Conparing Paterno to Hitler? C'mon...The scene outside Paterno's house has all the charm of a Hitler youth rally.
One of us needs to dial up our humor meter this morning.That comment goes WAY too far. Conparing Paterno to Hitler? C'mon...
This is why this weekends game has a 90% chance of disaster for PSU. Most of the people in the stadium will clearly be supporting Paterno, and the Nebraska fans will mostly be polite about that. But to the outside world, it will be the "Support Covering Up Child Molestation Bowl".The one retweet not condemning him is disturbingly ironic:
[/size][/font]
And she's not being pithy. She's chock full of tweets blindly supporting JoePa. For that matter, that hashtag is chock full of disturbing tweets. Apparently this whole thing is an excuse to be hugely proud of Penn State. State College, PA is officially a town I never, ever want to set foot in.
I'm in complete agreement with the first point. Waiting to learn more to declare complete agreement with the second point.Paterno must go today. The last 13 years are on him.
What do you think would happen if Coach K went down in flames in similar fashion?just a few students showing their support...
He allegedly also had those kids buying weed for Eck and coke for Oil Can Boyd and Sammy Stewart. Wade Boggs was called to the stand but claimed no knowledge of it until the 1991 outing that led to Fitzpatrick's firing--his denial was pretty plausible given that he let Fitzpatrick look after his own kid alone until that incident:Fuck ... why have I never heard about Don Fitzpatrick before?
I'm surprised I've never heard of him either, but it's also not that surprising in that people in the Boston area wouldn't want to talk about it.Fuck ... why have I never heard about Don Fitzpatrick before?
It really is amazing to compare the evidence of how people actually respond to predators in their midst with the claims in this thread that their reactions would have been clear and unambiguous. I guess the reality is that you never know until you've been faced with it.
whatever they want to say?? Fuck you Joe PaternoJoe Paterno is insane:
From: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=7JXoXdIJQ7I
YESKimJones
Source with knowledge of PSU Board of Trustees' thinking: Spanier's job in more jeopardy than Paterno's job. Tom Ridge could step in at PSU.
Situations like this are precisely the purpose for which stake-burnings were invented.I'm in complete agreement with the first point. Waiting to learn more to declare complete agreement with the second point.
Here's what I mean. There is so much here that doesn't make sense that I'm assuming there has to be some significant information that will come out to explain some of the actions taken (and not taken) by the people involved here. And I don't think we're going to be able to know where to assign the majority of blame for the last 13 years until we know this.
Mind you, this isn't a defense of Paterno. My guess is that when everything comes out, he'll end up looking worse than he does now. But so much of what we know is inexplicable that I'd prefer to know more before deciding who to burn at the stake.
Yeah, it's just an attempt to make sure people still show up, despite the stink on the program.I'm sorry but this is just stupid.
Yay! 100,000 people wear blue to the Senior Day game, say a prayer for the victims, cheer on JoePa and everything will be great! Go Lions!
It's sick.
I understand what you're saying and why you feel it's galling but it's not that Paterno is a victim. Penn Staters are giving support to him at a time when he arguably needs it the most, in return for all he has given to Penn State in the past. Whether one agrees with that logic or not, I'd think one could at least understand it.
He had his fucking chance to speak and he didn't, when his so called superiors covered up Sandusky's actions. Fuck that guy.At the same time I wish he'd have more of a chance to speak.
I'm in complete agreement with the first point. Waiting to learn more to declare complete agreement with the second point.
Here's what I mean. There is so much here that doesn't make sense that I'm assuming there has to be some significant information that will come out to explain some of the actions taken (and not taken) by the people involved here. And I don't think we're going to be able to know where to assign the majority of blame for the last 13 years until we know this.
Mind you, this isn't a defense of Paterno. My guess is that when everything comes out, he'll end up looking worse than he does now. But so much of what we know is inexplicable that I'd prefer to know more before deciding who to burn at the stake.
I cannot disagree with this more.That's on top of the fact that we're seeing it all in hindsight, knowing everything else that happened. It's not even clear to me exactly what McQueary saw, because it's been reported as anything in a range from outright rape to "horsing around". The horsing around is not at all believable, but if it were something more like touching rather than actual sexual intercourse, there could be doubt in McQueary's mind as to what exactly he saw. Even if it were completely explicit, unequivocal sexual assault, what would you do? Knock the guy unconscious? It's not like you walk around with a pair of handcuffs ready to arrest someone who is sexually abusing minors. What if Sandusky realizes he's caught, his life is ruined, and decides that he needs to kill both you and the child, so he is willing to fight to the very last inch of his life? What if he carries a gun in his locker, or in his car, and after you rescue the kid, he is willing to chase you as far as he is physically able? What if you interrupt the scene and call the cops only for him to hold the kid hostage? What if he disappears with the kid, who is never seen again and you have no ideas as to his identity, and suddenly it is your word against a well respected former coach as to what happened? What if you start fighting him, the kid runs off, and you're alone with the battered and bloody naked body of a university administrator in a university locker room?
As much as you might think you know what you would do in the situation, you really don't. And as little as you know about what you would really do, you have even less information about what the other people will do, so any talk of action is pure speculation, and any examination of people's reactions to things like this throughout history will show you that many people who thought they would act in a certain way ended up doing something completely differently.
Again, this is not to excuse anyone's behavior, especially not since McQueary took a promotion and kept quiet about it, but I think it's silly to know precisely what you would do in a situation like that, because to know that means you are prepared and ready, at every minute of your life, to enter into mortal combat with a 60 year old man, which is a pretty crazy thing to prepare for. A D-Day vet once told me I should avoid getting into trivial fights, and not do things like allow myself to get angry at bad drivers, because you have no idea what the other guy is going to do, and it is absolutely true. A lot of college-aged kids will get into barfights as if there is some kind of barfight code where even the loser will emerge hurt but unharmed, but the reality is there are a lot of complete lunatics out there, and a small percentage of these kinds of incidents will escalate and escalate into someone getting seriously injured or dying. Since I did not grow up during the depression and spend my youth traveling the world killing Nazis, I wouldn't consider myself ever-ready to kill a man in his 60s with my bare hands, especially not if he were a former mentor, well-respected, and had a lot of clout with all of the institutions I held dear in my life. I guess some of you might be, but as for myself, I really have no idea what I would have done in that moment.
Seriously. Appointing a committee to investigate the findings of the grand jury? Really? Astonishingly inadequate.These university officials were sweeping this under Paterno's rug in the same manner that they might take care of a player's DUI or a girlfriend's abortion. Except, the scale is incomparable.