Paul George to OKC
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The latest from Mark Murphy.
"If the Celtics are indeed destined to trade for Paul George, they are probably just at the beginning of a long process in their dealings with Indiana general manager Kevin Pritchard.
A league source said today that the Celtics are waiting to hear back from Pritchard, who as of draft night was asking for next year’s Nets and Lakers first round picks, which are both under Celtics control. Pritchard also wants starting-caliber players included in the deal.
The Celtics, though, do not have a good read on whether George would be open to staying in Boston after next season. The Pacers star has made it clear that he would prefer to play with his hometown Lakers.
Danny Ainge is understandably unwilling to part with his best assets for a so-called rental player who could leave after one season.
The source added that Houston, which entered the George fray after trading yesterday for Chris Paul but has far less than the Celtics to offer after clearing out its roster for the point guard, has received a similarly steep demand from Pritchard.
“Just way too much – both picks plus players. It’s like (Jimmy) Butler all over again,” the source said, referring to the Celtics’ attempt to trade for the former Bulls forward last year.
But Pritchard has made it known that he is not in a rush – a ploy that actually works in favor of the Celtics, who for salary cap purposes want to sign a major free agent first, be it Utah’s Gordon Hayward or the Clippers’ Blake Griffin.
Prtichard recently told an Indianapolis reporter that he could picture George in a Pacers uniform for the start of training camp."
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2017/06/pacers_maintaining_high_demands_in_potential_trade_for_paul
"If the Celtics are indeed destined to trade for Paul George, they are probably just at the beginning of a long process in their dealings with Indiana general manager Kevin Pritchard.
A league source said today that the Celtics are waiting to hear back from Pritchard, who as of draft night was asking for next year’s Nets and Lakers first round picks, which are both under Celtics control. Pritchard also wants starting-caliber players included in the deal.
The Celtics, though, do not have a good read on whether George would be open to staying in Boston after next season. The Pacers star has made it clear that he would prefer to play with his hometown Lakers.
Danny Ainge is understandably unwilling to part with his best assets for a so-called rental player who could leave after one season.
The source added that Houston, which entered the George fray after trading yesterday for Chris Paul but has far less than the Celtics to offer after clearing out its roster for the point guard, has received a similarly steep demand from Pritchard.
“Just way too much – both picks plus players. It’s like (Jimmy) Butler all over again,” the source said, referring to the Celtics’ attempt to trade for the former Bulls forward last year.
But Pritchard has made it known that he is not in a rush – a ploy that actually works in favor of the Celtics, who for salary cap purposes want to sign a major free agent first, be it Utah’s Gordon Hayward or the Clippers’ Blake Griffin.
Prtichard recently told an Indianapolis reporter that he could picture George in a Pacers uniform for the start of training camp."
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics/celtics_insider/2017/06/pacers_maintaining_high_demands_in_potential_trade_for_paul
As was said in the article, the longer this goes the better it is for BOS (assuming, of course, they sign Griffin or Hayward), due to the depth of BOS' trade assets.
Does anyone remember Kevin Pritchard in Portland and the so-called "Pritch Slap"? The guy loves to deal, but only if he "wins" the trade and makes the other team look foolish. It's part of the mentality that got him run of his first GM job quickly despite a decent body of work. Other GMs and agents hated dealing with him (Hinkie before Hinkie, if you will). I'd hunker down and expect a drawn out process for any potential George trade unless someone overpays.
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Well, it can only go so long--Hayward might need a PG deal (not consummated, but essentially done) before signing here. There's a point where Hayward won't wait any longer. And the Pacers know this.
From everything I've read it's the other way around. Hayward is interested in Boston because of Stevens, Eastern Conference, fit, etc. I think the George trade and possible extension is only discussed/consummated if Hayward or Griffin signs first
I think anyone trading with Celtics would be crazy not to push for those assets. And, Ainge would be crazy to deal both of them for anyone not named "Anthony Davis" or "Kevin Durant" (the latter of which can't be traded anyway). Can't blame the other team for trying, though
I mean, Danny initially asked for the Lakers AND Kings picks to move down from 1 to 3. GMs are always going to swing for the fences early on. As we saw with Philly/Boston, a deal will get done if both sides end up being reasonable.
We see this pattern play out so many times in the NBA, and it generally seems to end with the team dealing the star waiting too long and settling for a pu-pu platter of meh picks and a few role players, with everyone wondering why the dealing team couldn't get more.
Unless the team acquiring the star is the Nets or Knicks, of course.
Unless the team acquiring the star is the Nets or Knicks, of course.
Yeah, let it go to the trade deadline, Priatch, and then look at the pupu platter of puppy poop that teams will be offering. It'll be hilarious when they lose him for nothing and end up having too build around Myles Turner and the 14th pick in the draft.
Wouldn't the return for Chris Paul be a reasonable measuring stick for what the Pacers might expect for PG? They didn't get a single asset worth anywhere near what the BKN pick is worth. The draft pick will be high 20s (similar to BOS '18 pick). Players (Bradley and lesser) plus a BOS pick and/or MEM/LAC pick seems more like market value...
Chris Paul used his opt out to force the Clippers into the deal and so that's not the best comp. The Pacers should expect more because they have more control.
Kevin Love brought back the no. 1 pick, a former no. 1 pick (with tons of warts) and another future draft pick when he was traded with one year left. Butler with two years just yielded a lottery pick, former lottery pick and a decent young player, albeit a couple of them with the shine off. Deron Williams had 1.5 years left but the Jazz got two top 3 picks and a nice starting PG. The Nuggets got Gallinari, Mozgov and some other stuff for a 1/2 year of Carmelo.
It's hard to get a read on what these guys are worth because each situation had parties with different goals in mind when dumping or acquiring a star.
Source says the Cs and Pacers have continued to have Paul George talks this week, but Boston doesn't have a sense how close a deal might be.
I sense it's Jae, Avery, Marcus and a couple of Bos first rounders or y'all can suck it...
Jae and Avery are all that's necessary for the salary to work, there's no need to go past that and the LAL/Sac pick. That's worlds better than anything else they're getting offered.
I'm not even throwing the Lakers pick yet. Clippers 19 and BOS 18 until another offer approaching that is on the table.
If I'm Danny that's my offer and I tellPritchard hes not raking me over the coals when no other team is close.
Lakers best offer will be Clarkson, Randle and a 2020 pick. Rockets have nothing left. Cavs can't turn Love into the nessecary assets to entice IND either.
I have
That package assumes the extension, right? To the extent that George and his people are dictating terms, the Pacers may be forced to accept a lesser package if he would prefer to go join the Rockets.
What does Houston have to offer without a 3rd team getting involved?
Not a lot but as others have pointed out, George has all the leverage here. If he has no desire to sign an extension (because maybe he prefers Houston as a destination for one year), that lowers what Indiana can ask for him. Houston can send Ryan Anderson out to another team for picks and use that. It will be a stretch but if its what George wants, he can try to make it happen.
Who else is leveraging better than that for him for a year? Unless Ingram is tossed in, there's nothing better out there unless I'm missing a mystery team...
No need to include Ayton, Doncic, etc.
What in terms of picks could Anderson at 3/$60m fetch??? Would anyone give up a 1st? Maybe my barometer is broken...
Yup. Houston would be the ones giving up picks, not receiving them. He's obviously a shit defender but Anderson will be lethal on the pick-and-roll with Paul and Harden.
Ryan Anderson's market is likely small but the guy is a very useful player in today's NBA. He shoots 40% from beyond the arc and can rebound some. His defense is pretty putrid but if you are a contender who is looking for a bit more shooting, you could do far worse than him. His contract is big but I don't agree that its "negative value".
Again, the Rockets getting the pieces to obtain George is a stretch. However if he has interest in joining the Harden/Paul Ball Dominance Experiment, he can certainly do a fair bit to deter Boston from trading for him and encouraging the Pacers to engage with Houston plus another team.
He's any contender's Kyle Korver off the bench. 40% from 3 off the bench is valuable in today's NBA especially if you can hide his defense against another team's second unit. He'd be a perfect fit on a team like the Wizards in the role Bojan Bogdonavic failed at in the series against the C's.
Anderson's contract is absolutely a negative value with the current cap. No one is paying 3 years 60 mil for a guy whose only NBA skill currently is 3 point shooting. It was reported that teams wanted 2 1st round picks as the cost for taking on his contract.
Basically the only ways the Rockets could trade for George is if they decided to include Capela or if George publically came out and said he would only sign an extension with the Rockets. Even if he did that, Houston has so little to offer that Indiana might be tempted to call his bluff and keep him anyway.
Beaten to it.
Don't see anyone bailing Houston out on that Anderson contract to the degree that they'd be able to top a Boston offer. Not that George can't moot it by forcing his way to Houston if he chooses.
Don't see anyone bailing Houston out on that Anderson contract to the degree that they'd be able to top a Boston offer. Not that George can't moot it by forcing his way to Houston if he chooses.
I agree his contract is hefty but whatever is being reported these days needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Free agency hasn't started and once the dust clears, there are going to be teams that need another player in a pace and space offense.
Anderson is an elite level shooter from deep given how many threes he took (he was ninth overall in total makes and eleventh in total takes). Furthermore, he can rebound a bit too. In short, while he is very highly paid, his best skill is essentially the most highly valued in the current NBA. As such, he is perfect in his current role for the Rockets. There are plenty of other teams like the aforementioned Wizards who could benefit from having him on their roster.
Again, I view a George trade to Houston as highly unlikely but then again, there are always confounding trades in the Association. I was simply pointing out that it isn't a layup that nobody can beat the Celtics offer because the return to the Pacers may not be the only parameter around getting a deal done.
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We're going to need to give teams picks to get Anderson off our team. His contract was just too much. It's not an asset right now.
I would love for us to get George but we don't have the assets. We would have to send Ariza off too, he's an asset but we would be so thin. And if George leaves after a year then we're fucked.
With Paul joining the team, we're going to be better than last year. D'Antoni will get time to add more to our offense, we should be better in the playoffs. The aim should be the conference finals, then let's see. Hard to think of a way to get a team that can beat the Warriors. I think any scenario, even with George, we'll be heading into that series as heavy underdogs.
I like Morey's moves so far. He's done such a good job to get us into the elite level without tanking. If the Warriors weren't historically great, we would be one of the favourites, IMO.
With Paul joining the team, we're going to be better than last year. D'Antoni will get time to add more to our offense, we should be better in the playoffs. The aim should be the conference finals, then let's see. Hard to think of a way to get a team that can beat the Warriors. I think any scenario, even with George, we'll be heading into that series as heavy underdogs.
I like Morey's moves so far. He's done such a good job to get us into the elite level without tanking. If the Warriors weren't historically great, we would be one of the favourites, IMO.
Small point, and I'm not exactly in the Bojan fan club, but he shot .391 from 3 over ~19min per game for 8.1/4.1 so I'm not sure he was a failure in the Celtics series. I guess in the most reductive sense where the Wiz didn't win it was a failure.
Fair, but a lot of that scoring came from his 19 point outburst in Game 3, and I forgot he was 2/3 from deep in Game 1. But he threw in some serious stinkers when the Wiz could have used his scoring off the bench most - shutout in Game 2, six points in Game 5, and four points in Game 7.
But back to Paul George because who wants a Bojan Bogdanovic thread. Silly season starts tomorrow.
Rusillo on ESPN this morning, said that he talked to multiple teams and Pacers want "2 picks, and not in the 20s" and a "good young player that they could intro at a press conference".
There's really only one team that can make that deal. And if that's the case, that team doesn't need to make that deal, because they'd be bidding against themselves.
There's really only one team that can make that deal. And if that's the case, that team doesn't need to make that deal, because they'd be bidding against themselves.
I want 500k a year and profit sharing with my company. It's nice to want things.
And if that team isn't successful in FA, then the Pacers will be getting pupu platter leftovers from whoever is left.
With all these reports that teams want more value from the C's than they want from other teams (plus the in-flight cancellation debacle), I'm starting to wonder if Ainge has pissed off every rival GM to the point that it's tough for him to transact efficiently.
Ainge already made one of the biggest transactions of the offseason with a division rival.
Teams ask for more because Boston has more. Would be the case no matter who was running the show.
I wonder if people are overly cautious with Ainge because they don't want to be the next Brooklyn Nets. I think Ainge over time has more or less 'won' every trade he's made over the past few years and I think a lot of GMs are wary of being the next one. It's also that Boston has a lot of assets. At some point it would be interesting to see what the actual deals were that were offered, although I don't think that will happen.
Does it matter? Ultimately the Pacers are going to accept the best package available or get nothing in return.
No GM wants to be the next Billy King and get owned by Ainge, but you'd be out of work in a hurry if you wouldn't do a deal with the C's just because you're worried about looking bad.
"Sorry, Mr. Owner, I decided to deal with HOU and take Ryan Anderson's awful contract and a few young nobodies/late 1sts instead of a better package from Ainge because did you see that Nets trade? I got worried that he'd make me look bad." um....no.
But I don't know where you're seeing all these reports that they're asking for more from the C's than anyone else. The Mark Murphy article at the top of this page says that Indy asked HOU for an equally steep price.
And the in-flight cancellation "debacle" had nothing to do with a GM. That was Josh Jackson and his agent who made that call and had more to do with steering his client to a team where he could be playing early and often. Which can help with things like endorsements and contract #2. Not because Danny is pissing off GM's or agents.