Few, if any Patriots fans had unrealistic expectations from 2001 through 2019, the team competed at an extremely high level and we as fans reaped the rewards of that.In fairness, most of us are talking ourselves into Davante Parker and a positionless secondary with Jalen Mills and the ghost of Malcolm Butler. Without unrealistic expectations, being a fan isn’t as much fun.
Did you never read the gamethreads? The defense allowed points and the offense punted sometimes. It was clear that BB had lost control of the team.Few, if any Patriots fans had unrealistic expectations from 2001 through 2019, the team competed at an extremely high level and we as fans reaped the rewards of that.
6 Super Bowl wins, 9 appearances and 13 AFCG's, that's roughly 1 trip to the Super Bowl every 2 years during that span, our expectations were met.
Over and over and over.
We weren't wishing in one hand, hoping in another, yammering "THIS is the year!!, it's gonna happen, I can feel it!!", going to the playoffs three times, losing all three games by a combined 77-24 score, but kept expecting better.
Over and over and over.
Big difference between being a Patriots fan and Dolphins fan.
Couldn’t agree more. Parker could blossom here, sure. I hope he does. But he’s had only one really promising season, two years ago, and his injury history isn’t AWFUL, but it ain’t great. This trade doesn’t remotely “sew things up” enough, IMO, to NOT draft a very high-end young receiver. Land a potential #1 receiver in this WR DEEP draft, and now we’re slightly sorta maybe kinda talkin’.I like taking the chance on Parker but they still need to take a shot on a Day 1 or 2 WR.
Yes, this. More 11 please, and Parker will help with that.Assuming they keep Agholor they don’t have that WR1 but they’d have 4 guys who can all be average to quality starters.
I am also wondering if this means more 11. Parker, Meyers, Bourne/Agholor, and Henry is a nice foursome. Really solid. No one special at the top but your worst guy is still a completely viable option.
And that’s why you’ll never be on a Mike McDaniel team!Yes, this. More 11 please, and Parker will help with that.
For the knock upthread on a lack of YAC, a guy who can more regularly get separation is exactly what this offense needs. I don't care if he trips over the line to gain after he catches it.
Lol. “Few Patriot fans had unrealistic expectations while having the combination of one of the greatest coaches of all time paired with one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.”Few, if any Patriots fans had unrealistic expectations from 2001 through 2019, the team competed at an extremely high level and we as fans reaped the rewards of that.
6 Super Bowl wins, 9 appearances and 13 AFCG's, that's roughly 1 trip to the Super Bowl every 2 years during that span, our expectations were met.
Over and over and over.
We weren't wishing in one hand, hoping in another, yammering "THIS is the year!!, it's gonna happen, I can feel it!!", going to the playoffs three times, losing all three games by a combined 77-24 score, but kept expecting better.
Over and over and over.
Big difference between being a Patriots fan and Dolphins fan.
I want to like Meyers more than I actually do. He dropped some wide open passes last year, including at least one deep ball. Considering his other skills, such at they are, he cannot be dropping balls. I still do like him, but he just isn't an every down player.I like Meyers, he's the guy who comes in when one of your top 3 receivers inevitably get hurt, and can fill that role. But, Parker takes morning shits that have more receiving talent than Meyers.
Parker is the real deal when given the opportunity to flourish. My only concern about Parker is whether the Pats coaching staff gives him that opportunity, or does he just end up as a decoy on the outside, a 3rd or 4th read after the tight ends, backs, and slot receivers, that Mac only gets to about 2-3x's per game. His contract makes that perfectly fine, and I could give two shits about a 3rd round pick in 2023, but I believe very much that Parker is a legit #2 NFL wide receiver, and if he played with a guy like Mahomes or Herbert, he could even be a low end #1. The Pats, and whoever is calling the plays this year, need to get him involved. We'll see if that happens. I think they failed to get Jonnu Smith involved last year, and I think it took way too long for them to recognize what they had in Bourne. I hope they figure shit out quicker with Parker.
The move makes sense for both teams, on almost every level, IMO.
Parker has averaged 900-something yards per 17 games the last two years; he just hasn't stayed healthy. 2019 was probably his high-water mark, but he can still be productive when he's on the field.So what happened in 2019 with Parker, and what happened after? That’s for me the big question.
I think it’s more their tendency towards being mired in their past glories, and their delusions about their status now. I have a longtime friend who is a Dolphin fan, and he still has an attitude like it’s 1990, and the Phins are a blue blood franchise, and the Patriots are a second class, joke of a team. In utter and complete denial about how New England has left them in the dust bin of league history. I find a lot of them I encounter to be that way, as evidenced by the pathetic joy they still get every year when the last undefeated team loses. I just laugh at my buddy at this point.If you're a fan of a team you don't stop being a fan just because they haven't been successful for a while. You continue to feel hope and optimism. That's not hard to understand for longtime Pats and/or Red Sox fans, is it? Does "wait 'til next year!" sound familiar? I don't get the mockery of Dolphans.
I was replying to his comment about having unrealistic expectations is part of being a fan.Lol. “Few Patriot fans had unrealistic expectations while having the combination of one of the greatest coaches of all time paired with one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.”
Right. Must have just been your managed expectations and level headed evaluations of the teams all these years.
Well it started with "Parker sucks. You guys can have him", which naturally resulted in "wtf does a Dolphins fan know about winning football?".If you're a fan of a team you don't stop being a fan just because they haven't been successful for a while. You continue to feel hope and optimism. That's not hard to understand for longtime Pats and/or Red Sox fans, is it? Does "wait 'til next year!" sound familiar? I don't get the mockery of Dolphans.
Honestly some posts here remind me of the tone and attitude of my NYY fan friends at UConn in ‘02/‘03If you're a fan of a team you don't stop being a fan just because they haven't been successful for a while. You continue to feel hope and optimism. That's not hard to understand for longtime Pats and/or Red Sox fans, is it? Does "wait 'til next year!" sound familiar? I don't get the mockery of Dolphans.
Sound advice.Well it started with "Parker sucks. You guys can have him", which naturally resulted in "wtf does a Dolphins fan know about winning football?".
Not our best moments all around. Time to spin the topic wheel.
Especially when the Patriots are in the exact same position as they are (clearly below the top teams in the conference and hoping to compete with similarly talented rosters that have done more than they have to improve in the off-season while hoping their QB takes the next step).If you're a fan of a team you don't stop being a fan just because they haven't been successful for a while. You continue to feel hope and optimism. That's not hard to understand for longtime Pats and/or Red Sox fans, is it? Does "wait 'til next year!" sound familiar? I don't get the mockery of Dolphans.
Yes, we've become what we hate. The "That's a W for Miami" post that started this off was eye roll worthy, because the exact pick has not been disclosed since it is a 2023 pick, and Parker has not even been introduced to the media as a member of the Pats, let alone played a single snap, but we could all do with being a little less triggered.Honestly some posts here remind me of the tone and attitude of my NYY fan friends at UConn in ‘02/‘03
As a Red Sox/Dolphins fan, I can confirm this.Honestly some posts here remind me of the tone and attitude of my NYY fan friends at UConn in ‘02/‘03
My posts yesterday were 100% directed at the best thing the Miami Dolphins have produced in the last 25 years, which is a world class Dolphins troll on a Boston focused web site.As somebody who doesn't engage too much in this back and forth, I would say this probably has more to do with @sodenj5's trolling than much else. You seem like a great poster, @rymflaherty, from what I've seen. Who knows? Maybe 20 years from now both teams won't have won a playoff game in decades and we can debate which team sucks out loud more.
But don't go into Miami threads and discuss that or you get a backwash thread.They are consistent. At being bad.
Indeed, standards are important. I respect standards. We must abide by the standards of decorum and kindness in all situations.But don't go into Miami threads and discuss that or you get a backwash thread.
But don't go into Miami threads and discuss that or you get a backwash thread.
Thanks to you both.Indeed, standards are important. I respect standards. We must abide by the standards of decorum and kindness in all situations.
Conventional wisdom seems to be that he'd be the X and replace Agholor in a lot of circumstances but I'm less certain--I could see him playing with Agholor in two wide receiver sets and displacing Meyers, and I don't think it's hard to imagine him being part of a three wide receiver group with Agholor and Meyers.Trying to bring this thread back to on the field discussion, how do we feel about Parker's fit in the Patriot offense, both in terms of schemes (which may be a bit challenging in the absence of knowing what the new offensive play-caller might bring to the table) and in terms of personnel.
Do we think that Parker's addition might mean a trade out of one of the incumbents? Will his addition change the likelihood of seeing a WR drafted sooner than the 7th round?
That is an uncharitable view. But I respect your opinion and will move on.Thanks to you both.
Move on please.
Curran also says that the guy Parker is most likely replacing here is Harry: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/analyzing-devante-parkers-field-and-financial-fit-patriotsWarning: the outcome of this game sucked
View: https://twitter.com/tomecurran/status/1510653839627722754
TBH, Curran says that Parker is replacing the role they envisioned (but never really got) for Harry. In reality, its more like he's replacing Meyers as the Swiss-Army knife WR1. It seems to me that in Parker, Meyers, and Bourne, they now have 3 guys who can line up anywhere and run any route, with Agholor pretty much always being the deep threat guy.Curran also says that the guy Parker is most likely replacing here is Harry: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/analyzing-devante-parkers-field-and-financial-fit-patriots
Yeah that makes some sense.Curran also says that the guy Parker is most likely replacing here is Harry: https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/analyzing-devante-parkers-field-and-financial-fit-patriots
At his current salary? It is hard for me to see him sticking around the league at any salary. Do folks think he will get a second contract from someone?Yeah that makes some sense.
It's not unprecedented for an NFL player to make a jump in their fourth year but it's pretty rare (Henry Ellard went from good to great in like his sixth year). Unless Harry has just fundamentally changed his game its hard to see him sticking around at his current salary.
He's not good but he's a reasonable option for a 4-6th receiver for most teams especially if they think that maybe has some upside and the Pats just blew it with him by making him overthink things-if the Pats trade him for a bag of donuts or cut him I think he sticks around the league for another year or two on near minimum contracts.At his current salary? It is hard for me to see him sticking around the league at any salary. Do folks think he will get a second contract from someone?
maybe? Lots of teams take flyers on former high picks that didn't pan out, some team will give him a look either as a #4 WR and ST guy, or consider shifting him to a move TE type role.At his current salary? It is hard for me to see him sticking around the league at any salary. Do folks think he will get a second contract from someone?
Either he plays more H-Back (and the offense adapts to having one of those in the formation more often without a traditional FB on the roster) or I don't think his role is significant. He didn't show the ability to produce as a traditional in-line TE and I don't think he's athletic and explosive enough to warrant a resonable number of plays drawn up specifically to get him in space. Looks like a gadget player to me.How does Jonuu fit into this offense when the team has a variety of RB and WR to choose from at this point?
You’re probably right, which would be a huge disappointment given the financial commitment of $31M guaranteed. We’re basically stuck with Jonnu for 2 more seasons so just have to hope they can figure something out to make him more productive.Either he plays more H-Back (and the offense adapts to having one of those in the formation more often without a traditional FB on the roster) or I don't think his role is significant. He didn't show the ability to produce as a traditional in-line TE and I don't think he's athletic and explosive enough to warrant a resonable number of plays drawn up specifically to get him in space. Looks like a gadget player to me.
Reiss on JonnuYou’re probably right, which would be a huge disappointment given the financial commitment of $31M guaranteed. We’re basically stuck with Jonnu for 2 more seasons so just have to hope they can figure something out to make him more productive.
I think there's every reason to beleive that Jonu Smith can be a useful second tight end and provide some extra value as a half back. He's done it before.You’re probably right, which would be a huge disappointment given the financial commitment of $31M guaranteed. We’re basically stuck with Jonnu for 2 more seasons so just have to hope they can figure something out to make him more productive.
Yeah, to the tune of okay blocking and 40 catches for 400 yards. That's not really what they paid for and the fact that it's the kind of production we're now hoping to get says a lot.I think there's every reason to beleive that Jonu Smith can be a useful second tight end and provide some extra value as a half back. He's done it before.
There is no particular reason to think he can be a 15 million a year player--that was only going to work if NE was somehow getting him to perform way abouve what he's historically done and that simply ain't happening.
We're in violent agreement. If he becomes a 40 catch/400 yard/plays 60 percent of the snaps guy, that's useful but it's not a 15 million a year player.Yeah, to the tune of okay blocking and 40 catches for 400 yards. That's not really what they paid for and the fact that it's the kind of production we're now hoping to get says a lot.
At this point, I’d probably gladly sign up for that. E5’s info may tell some of the story but otherwise, I’d love to know what they thought they were getting. In any event, much of this contract is simply a sunk cost barring something crazy happening. If he could replicate 2020 where he gets 450 yards and a decent amount of TDs, we’d probably take it.We're in violent agreement. If he becomes a 40 catch/400 yard/plays 60 percent of the snaps guy, that's useful but it's not a 15 million a year player.
This year will tell the story but I find it hard to believe he’ll see a ton of volume given the current personnel but I guess we’ll see. If anything, just being a red zone target like he was in 2020 would be valuable enough. The H-back stuff will be what I’ll be watching this summer.I'm not sure exactly how much you can chalk Jonnu's disappointing 2021 season to him being a bust. The team pretty much reinvented its entire offense on the fly, captained by a rookie. It's hard for every new guy to play to their potential under that scenario -- esp. when you throw in the factors Reiss mentions impacting him. Maybe we should eventually adjust our expectations for Jonnu -- but I would like to see at least a few games with him in our system with a full offseason, no newborns and no COVID weirdness before we declare him the FA version of N'Keal Harry.
The real problem is not so much Jonnu's production as that Hunter Henry is also not a traditional in-line TE. In the run-heavy games, Henry was often coming off the field for Jonnu. If Jonnu is playing H back, Henry is the Y. Can he do that? There are a lot of moving pieces with the skill players.Either he plays more H-Back (and the offense adapts to having one of those in the formation more often without a traditional FB on the roster) or I don't think his role is significant. He didn't show the ability to produce as a traditional in-line TE and I don't think he's athletic and explosive enough to warrant a resonable number of plays drawn up specifically to get him in space. Looks like a gadget player to me.