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Patriots Sign Punter Corey Bojorquez to 90 man release WR Darren Andrews

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by soxhop411, May 14, 2018.

  1. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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  2. Koufax

    Koufax Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    A lefty, of course.
     
  3. Over Guapo Grande

    Over Guapo Grande panty merchant SoSH Member

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    Could also just be a case of saving bullets in the preseason . Kinda like when they brought in that kid from South Dakota State to give Bahr’s leg a breather.
     
  4. Seels

    Seels Member SoSH Member

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    Allen hasn't really been good the last couple years and it seems like one of the more easily upgradeable spots.
     
  5. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Is this true? It suppose it might be net punt numbers wise. But it seems like 2 or 3 times last year Allen was instrumental in wins (pinning teams deep).

    Allen despite not having a very big leg has been a really good punter. Now if he is becoming too expensive thats another issue.
     
  6. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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  7. bakahump

    bakahump Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Huh. I stand corrected. Thanks Ifman.
     
  8. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

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    They need all the help with field position to aid this defense and the team in general. Competition even at punter this year.
     
  9. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    Of course! Would it be anything else
     
  10. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    He also gave up a 5th best in the league 4.6 yards returned per punt. That's pretty good.

    And only one punter Bosher, from Atlanta had fewer punts. If you look at % of Punts inside the 20 he would have certainly looked like he had a better year.
     
  11. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Competition is good, even though I would have said that this is one sport where I see very little need for it.

    If we're talking the kicking game, I'd like to, and rather, see someone brought in to compete with Gost. He's quietly hurt them in several big games (AFCCG against Denver, SB 51 and SB 52) with missed extra points. The middle example worked out well, of course. And I know that part of the job is kickoffs and in particular placing the ball at the one or so to set up a return to less than the 25. But still, I'd like to see Gost get challenged a bit.
     
  12. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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    He doesn't punt that much but when he does it's usually with better field position than most yet his Inside 20 numbers are still bad (26th ranked this tear, 21 last year).
     
  13. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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    I thinks it’s likely that Darren Andrews clears waivers and reverts to reserve
     
  14. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    I’d have to ask to what end?

    To somehow get Gost to focus more? Kick better? Or to legit look for a replacement?

    If it’s the former, I don’t personally buy into some narrative that bringing in a street FA or UDFA is somehow going to make him perform at crunch time. Reasonable minds can differ though, I just don’t see the need for a dog and pony show.

    If it’s the latter, moving on from him only saves $3.5M. Does that savings make you feel better trotting Blair Walsh out there in a big moment?

    Gost has had some hiccups at inopportune times, but the one season you could cite as ‘bad’ our own resident kicker was calling for it being an undisclosed injury. Given that BB was the one that spearheaded the XP being moved back, I’m going to assume he expected his own kicker to miss one or two here or there.
     
  15. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    It's not about money. It's about potentially finding a kicker who will kick FGs and XP better than Gost. Gost has been really good at times and is good, as I wrote, on kickoffs. At the same time, his misses have been huge, and there were times last year when it seemed like he had the yips.

    That miss against Denver contributed mightily to the loss, as the Pats failed on a two point conversion his failure necessitated at the end. Had they not fantastically executed two two point conversions against the Falcons, the Comeback would have failed, and Gost would own a part of it. Last year's SB was a combo platter of suck, mostly tied to the D, but Gost again missing contributed.

    This is not to say that he's the Devil and they should replace him at all costs. But seeing if they can find his replacement, and only choosing him if he is clearly an upgrade (which seems unlikely), is something that I think they should try.
     
  16. IdiotKicker

    IdiotKicker Member SoSH Member

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    Allen has been slightly below-average the last two years after grading out as a top-10 guy in 2015. He'll throw up 3-4 game stretches where everything clicks, but because he lacks the top-end leg strength of a Hekker or King, he has to make up for it with his placement and hang-time. It's actually a good approach in NE, where you typically don't need the 60-yard punt from your own 10-yard line, so they're targeting the right skillset given the team they've put together, but Allen just hasn't been consistent enough over the last two years. Punters take time to develop, so I'm always wary of rookies making an impact. The ball is different, demands are different, and even the formations can be a significant shift from the shield punt used by a lot of college teams now. If I were a betting man, I'd have Allen being on the roster at the start of the year, but weird shit happens with lefty punters.
     
  17. jmcc5400

    jmcc5400 Member SoSH Member

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    This was sly.
     
  18. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    Your have a much rosier view of the average NFL kicker than most. This is how Ghost has stacked up over the last 7 years (arbitrary cutoff point because of laziness). He had a down year in 2016 but very much recovered in 2017. Even then, his down year is slightly below average for a starting NFL kicker. You are claiming a kicker can come in off the street and be a top 15 kicker in the NFL. Which is crazy talk.

    4th, 11th (2 missed XPs)
    18th, 17th (3 missed XPs)
    5th, 1st (0 missed XPs)
    2nd, 1st (0 missed XPs)
    6th, 1st (0 missed XPs)
    18th, 1st (0 missed XPs)
    12th, 1st (0 missed XPs)
     
  19. Saints Rest

    Saints Rest Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    According to Miguel, a swap from Allen to Bojorquez would save a little over one million on the cap.
     
  20. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I'm not claiming it will happen or it's even likely. But I don't see any harm in trying. At worst, whoever they bring in is someone they have more information on in the event of a Gost injury.

    The Pats have defied the odds and found some diamonds in the rough at other positions. Putting aside the SB madness, Butler was a huge longshot who paid off for them. Is it likely to happen at kicker? Clearly not. But I don't see why they would not poke around.
     
  21. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    So your point boils down to the idea that they should do look to improve their roster at every position. I'll be sure to alert the proper people to make sure Bill knows his kicker is only a top 10 kicker and not the best in the league.
     
  22. IdiotKicker

    IdiotKicker Member SoSH Member

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    Vinatieri missed two FGs in the SB against the Panthers. These things happen, even to the greatest kicker of all-time. Dan Bailey missed two XPs last year despite being one of the best kickers in the league in 2015 and 2016. Justin Tucker was just 4-for-10 in 2015 on 50+ yard FGs before going 10-for-10 in 2016. Steven Hauschka has a 3-game stretch every year where he literally forgets how to kick. Roberto Aguayo happens. Zane Gonzalez made 75% of his kicks last year. Greg Zuerlein almost lost his job after making just 67% of his kicks in 2015 and then throws up a 95% accuracy last year including 6-for-7 on 50+ kicks.

    We can go through every kicker out there and there are flaws with them that are unique to every kicker and that may vary from year to year. The goal isn't to find the guy who makes 95% every year and never misses an XP, because that kicker does not exist. The goal is to find someone who minimizes variation from year-to-year and who you know is going to perform more often than not. Other than 2016, where the turf in Gilette was so bad that they had to replace it mid-season because players were complaining, Gostkowski has been as close to that 95% kicker as anyone in the league. He's above 90% in four of the last five years, and has the highest FG% of anyone who has kicked in 14 games a year over that period (including Tucker). The only other guys in the conversation are Hauschka and Bailey, and no one else is particularly close.

    So yeah, Gostkowski is the highest-paid kicker in the game. Has some ugly misses in key situations. So did the greatest kicker of all-time, and so does every other kick you'd potentially want. If you are looking for an upgrade, you are looking for someone to be the best kicker in the league, because otherwise, you're treading water or moving down in terms of talent and performance. I think it's far more likely we see an extension before the season for Gostkowski than anything else.
     
  23. NortheasternPJ

    NortheasternPJ Member SoSH Member

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    It's just people look back and remember the highlights. Vinatieri was fantastic as you said but missed big kicks as well. Hell, look at Tim Thomas, who single handedly won the Bruins the 2011 cup because he was standing on his head for the entire run and stole them a bunch of games. It's not like he ever gave up 3 goals in a game in that run.

    Oh wait, he gave up 5 goals four times in the Eastern Conference Finals against Tampa Bay? But he was great in Game 7! People just look at what they remember, not what actually happened and I love Vinatieri.
     
  24. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    You're being blasphemous now. I must cleanse those thoughts.

    [​IMG]
     
  25. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    My point is that Gost has had some very important misses and while his numbers are otherwise excellent, and they probably will not replace him, that looking at other guys during training camp is might help/couldn't hurt kind of move.

    If I was saying "replace Gost!111!!" at all costs, I would get your reaction more. But why not kick the tires? How does that hurt? Like I said earlier, one benefit is that they will know more about a possible replacement if Gost gets injured, as happened several years ago mid season.
     
  26. kenneycb

    kenneycb Hates Goose Island Beer; Loves Backdoor Play SoSH Member

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    It's poor roster management at camp. The Patriots have 90 roster spots they can bring to training camp. Let's say Ghost falls back a little and is a top 15 kicker instead of a top 5 kicker. The likelihood that someone off the street is better than a top 15 specialist is quite low. Even then, the marginal gains you are getting from this new kicker are fairly minimal, with only a couple million in cap savings. It is certainly lower than the likelihood that the 90th man on the roster carves out a role on special teams or something. Both are low but when you have a finite amount of available resources, I would go with the strategy that has the higher likelihood to benefit your team.

    You also keep harping on important misses as if other kickers don't miss important kicks too and that we should only focus on him missing important kicks as opposed to the flipside of the coin to all the important kicks he has actually made, which tend to be more forgettable.
     
  27. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    In no particular order:
    • you only have 90 roster spots, and you're auditioning for 53 active spots + 10 practice squad. A second kicker has little chance of making those 63 versus a player at almost any other position
    • if Gost gets hurt, they probably replace him with a vet, as they did with Shayne Graham
    • they scout every position every year. This year they met with KState kicker Matthew McCrane, so it's not like they skipped evaluating kickers. They have a pretty good track record with rookie kickers (Robbie Gould, Gostkowski). The simplest answer here is that they didn't really like the kickers available
    • there are limited reps for the snapper / holder / kicker battery and they're already bringing in a new punter (a bigger priority) for a tryout. There's something to be said for not introducing too many moving parts to the ST units
    • Gostkowski is still pretty awesome
     
  28. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    All fair points, SN. My bias — which is likely clouding my judgment on this — is that I don’t trust Gost in big spots and likely blame him more than most for what happened in the games I mentioned. I do see him having the yips in big spots, and it worries me. But I hear your points, and they are well taken.
     
  29. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    For his playoff career, Gostkowski is 78/82 in XP and 34/38 in FG. As for big spots, none of the three missed kicks you focus on were in the fourth quarter; in each case, he hit kicks after. The Broncos kick looms large because the offense was terrible that day, and the Eagles misses (one of which wasn't his fault) loom large because the defense played like third-graders. They get average performances from those units and Gostkowski's misses are forgotten. It's not like he blew a game-winning kick.

    What Gostkowski doesn't have is a signature game-winning kick to offset the misses you remember (like Vinatieri's chance for redemption against Carolina). That strikes me as more unfortunate timing than anything. He's hit his last seven fourth-quarter playoff FG attempts, but none of those were in one-score games. He hit two go-ahead fourth-quarter FGs in the 2007 AFCCG vs Indy, but they ended up blowing both those leads. His one game-winning playoff kick was in the Marlon McCree game in Gost's rookie year. But in the regular season, he's been 24/25 in fourth quarter/OT FG attempts for the tie or the lead. I remembered that one miss off the top of my head but very few of the hits, which just goes to show how little we appreciate Gostkowski's greatness.
     
  30. Toe Nash

    Toe Nash Member SoSH Member

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    I'm just thankful that BB didn't draft a punter in the 5th round like not one, but THREE teams did.

    Like, sure you were targeting a guy, but when he got picked you felt like your second guy was worth a 5th? And then when he went you scrambled and took your #3?!! They're that much better than what would have been freely available in a few hours?
     
  31. TheoShmeo

    TheoShmeo Skrub's sympathy case Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Another part of the Gost narrative for me is that he missed a FG during the 2007 playoff run which arguably contributed to Bill's odd decision to go for it on 4th and 13 and eschew a makeable FG in the Game that Shall Not Be Mentioned. Yes, that was a long time ago (and I believe his rookie season), and to pin BB's decision on Gostkowski is unfair. But it sticks in my head and combines with some of the misses we've discussed.

    Also, I consider his game winning regular season kick (without looking, it was around 50 yards) against the Giants at 16W Stadium a few years ago to have been a signature kick. That was dead on balls and capped an incredible finish. FWIW.
     
  32. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Having an extra P or K in camp is useful even if you have zero expectations of them beating out the incumbent for multiple reasons:

    1: takes reps in practice so the ST units can practice their roles without exhausting your starter
    2: is on hand in case your starter gets hurt in camp
    3: is a known entity in case your starter gets hurt or underperforms during the season
     
  33. Over Guapo Grande

    Over Guapo Grande panty merchant SoSH Member

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    Speaking in agreement - isn’t that the definition of “camp body”? Really not much different than a 12th WR.
     
  34. maufman

    maufman Dope Staff Member Dope Gold Supporter

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    You won’t get any insights on his clutch kicking (even assuming such a skill exists) in the preseason.

    Maybe the Pats should move on from Gost, repurpose the money, and bring in a couple kickers to compete for the now-vacant role — I don’t think so, but I can see the logic. I don’t see the logic in burning a roster spot and splitting reps during the preseason, when Gost will almost certainly look better in camp than whatever fringy kicker they bring in (because anyone who projects to be even a top-40 guy will have better offers). And even if you do somehow find a diamond-in-the-rough kicker, your options to redeploy Gost’s cap space will be much more limited in August than they would be now.
     
  35. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

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    The difference is a 12th WR can compete for a practice squad spot, but you're not going to have a specialist on the PS unless there are unusual circumstances (like your PK has a balky hamstring and you might need to activate the PS guy late in the week).
     

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