Patriots @ Minnesota; Football Central Gamethread.

[Tony C]

Share the Hightower love -- he's been excellent...nice match up given the lack of speed of the Vike TEs and RBs, but still...he's been good.
 

Ridley looks Very Important today. Decisive, tough running between the tackles.

 
Yep, that last run will improve his average, but even at only 3+ he was running really well. I love Ridley...still a puzzler that Reiss had him as a cut.
 

Invisible so far: LaFell. Wright on the offensive side. Nink on the defensive side.

 
Yeah...Wright seems confused. As poor as LaFell  has been, I wonder if Tyms replaces him in a few games?
 
Stork with a few nice blocks. Is that due to injury to Connolly, just getting him some reps, or....?

 

[Tony C]

Has Stork been at Center the second half?

 
Not sure. I noticed on the 2nd or 3rd series. But not sure before that.

 

[Darnell's Son]

Ridley has stopped fumbling the ball but now seems to have a problem fumbling his helmet.

I think it's an aberration. He only fumbled his helmet once in his pro career before this year and only once in college. I'm sure he'll get together with the coaching staff and clean this aspect of his game up.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Christopher Price ‏@cpriceNFL  11s
Brady: I'm happy we won, but I just wish we would go out there and play the way we're capable of. #Patriots

I'm glad they realize that they aren't playing anywhere near the level they need to on offense.  They have so many areas to improve upon. 

 

[richgedman'sghost]

Vereen got benched after running out of bounds instead of getting the first on the first drive. Let's see if his punishment is over.

Also, anyone figure out why there was no 10-second runoff after that OPI? Is that not the rule?

Not sure if anyone answered this but the 10 second runoff I think only applies to false start or offsides/ illegal motion penalites. It does not apply to holding or pass interference calls.  The thinking behind the rule is that the offense if behind might commit a false start penalty to stop the clock.  The offense would not commit a pass interfence penalty to simply stop the clock. Therefore there is no need for a 10 second run-off.  Hopefully that makes sense.
 I was not paying attention at the time. Did the Vikings have any timeouts left? They could have avoided the run-off if applicable by calling a TO. However pass interference or holding does not result in a 10 second run-off.

 

[Darnell's Son]

Not sure if anyone answered this but the 10 second runoff I think only applies to false start or offsides/ illegal motion penalites. It does not apply to holding or pass interference class.  The thinking behind the rule is that the offense if behind might commit a false start penalty to stop the clock. 

I think the run off only occurs when the penalized team has no time outs.
 
Edit: The run off can be stopped with a time out, and yes, it only applies to pre snap penalties.

 

[brandonchristensen]

This is clearly not the right thread...

 

[brandonchristensen]

 

[Tony C]

In terms of ups and downs, I like Reiss' line on a down:
 

 
Receivers not named Edelman -- Quiet days for Aaron Dobson, Danny Amendola and Brandon LaFell.
 

 
Not mentioned above, I'd give a game ball to Siliga. He's turning into a really good player -- far far better than Jones and Vellano, and at this point superior to Wilfork and Easley.
 
A different "down" would be Tim Wright -- he disappeared.

 

[Stitch01]

I think its a lot to expect anything much out of Wright after two weeks in the offense.

The receivers point is spot on. Remember in the football life with BB when he complains that if the other team stops Moss and Welker the offense is done? We are sort of there right now with Edelman and 80 percent Gronk. Lots of other guys that should have the talent to step up, but this offense right now will get crushed by a good defense with a good coach.

 

[ivanvamp]

I think its a lot to expect anything much out of Wright after two weeks in the offense.

The receivers point is spot on. Remember in the football life with BB when he complains that if the other team stops Moss and Welker the offense is done? We are sort of there right now with Edelman and 80 percent Gronk. Lots of other guys that should have the talent to step up, but this offense right now will get crushed by a good defense with a good coach.

 
I wonder how much of it has to do with Brady.  He seems, at first glance, to simply rely on a couple of guys more than everyone else.  The meme in his early years was that his favorite receiver was the "open" receiver.  Maybe that's still true but there are only a couple of guys ever open.  Or maybe it's not true; maybe, instead, he's just kind of sticking with his favorite guys and other guys aren't getting as many balls thrown their way as a result.

 

[Leather]

Stop plagiarizing my posts, dude!

 

[soxfan121]

I think its a lot to expect anything much out of Wright after two weeks in the offense.

 
I do not think it is unreasonable for Wright to know where he's supposed to line up (aka, the play book). Early in the first quarter Wright started out next to the LT, then decided he should be next to the RT and Brady had to step forward (was in the shotgun) and re-direct Wright back to his spot next to the LT. 
 
And then Wright was not seen again. 
 
Then there's this from last week: 

 
Wright's the guy who isn't aware the ball has been snapped. 
 
Maybe he's learning the system. Maybe he's just having a rough transition. But these mistakes are embarrassing and boneheaded for a professional.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

 
I do not think it is unreasonable for Wright to know where he's supposed to line up (aka, the play book). Early in the first quarter Wright started out next to the LT, then decided he should be next to the RT and Brady had to step forward (was in the shotgun) and re-direct Wright back to his spot next to the LT. 
 
And then Wright was not seen again. 
 
Then there's this from last week: 

 
Wright's the guy who isn't aware the ball has been snapped. 
 
Maybe he's learning the system. Maybe he's just having a rough transition. But these mistakes are embarrassing and boneheaded for a professional.

He's been here two weeks. We use different variations of multiple sets as most teams do. It would be more surprising to me if Wright wasn't completely lost after not ever being exposed to our terminology, playbook, OTA's, training camp, or pre-season to learn and understand every cadence like its second nature.

 

[Stitch01]

Exactly, there's a reason why teams do all that shit. I'm not expecting shit from Wright until late this year or 2015.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Wright has been here for two weeks and has had one decent game and one disappearing act.  Amendola and others have been here far longer, with two complete off-seasons in the system and they're nowhere to be found.  It's ridiculous.  

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Brady was certainly not impressed. 

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Brady was certainly not impressed. 

I don't know what Brady had to say but Belichick and his makeup artist to appear to be Tom gets an A+ for that interview.

 

[ShaneTrot]

After watching both Bill and Tom's post-game press conferences, Bill seemed happy and Tom acted like someone stole his dog. I wonder if Tom was unhappy with all the running.

 

[Stitch01]

Watching game again some, had to be Jones best game as a pro. Was good vs the run as well as disrupting the passing game.

Hightower so much better rushing the passer than covering

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

Tom tends not to get upset about "too much running." He gets upset about lack of execution and about having a lack of faith in his receivers to show up in the spots they're supposed to be.

 

[Stitch01]

I think he's somewhat frustrated because the same sort of issues that have shown up in the playoffs and hurt badly in past seasons are rearing their head through two games (interior OL, not converting short third downs, bad secondary receiver play) Brady was much better yesterday, at least at first watch.

 

[Shelterdog]

 
I do not think it is unreasonable for Wright to know where he's supposed to line up (aka, the play book). Early in the first quarter Wright started out next to the LT, then decided he should be next to the RT and Brady had to step forward (was in the shotgun) and re-direct Wright back to his spot next to the LT. 
 
 

 
I'm piling on but actually it is unreasonable. You ever seen one of the playbooks? There's a lot of shit in there and it's not just "play 1 you go there, play 2 you go there"  -- there are a ton of adjustments players have to make.  A month from now there isn't much of an excuse but Wright hasn't been here long at all. 

 

[ShaneTrot]

We are a bit spoiled. The Pats win by 23 on the road and we have complaining. The WR and TE were barely asked to make plays against the Vikings. It looked like the coaching staff made a very conscious effort to play heavy and beat up MN. They should do the same thing to the Raiders next week.

 

[Stitch01]

I don't know.  People seem pretty happy with the road win.  There are still clearly things that need to get better in order to be competitive come playoff time, particularly on offense.  Even with the heavy/conservative game plan I think they want a little more production from non Gronk/Edelman options in the passing game (and I don't think they have the OL personnel to beat a good defense with the game plan they used yesterday). 
 
Lots of time to fix it of course, but worth discussing even on the heels of a nice win IMO.

 

[Super Nomario]

Brandon LaFell played 38 snaps yesterday (per PFF)? Anyone see him?
 
He did have a tackle on special teams.

 

[Stitch01]

He did some mediocre outside blocking and didn't commit any crippling mistakes.  One of his better games as a pro.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

He did some mediocre outside blocking and didn't commit any crippling mistakes.  One of his better games as a pro.

 
Which is why he was out there.
 
As ShaneTrot alluded to, the game plan was pretty clear this week. Play heavy. It's probably why Thompkins was inactive and Lafell was taking his place.

 

[Stitch01]

I know, I think it was one of his better games as a pro although he didn't actually look that strong to me when he was blocking (I'll defer to others judgments there though).  Certainly rather have him doing that than trying to catch passes or block for screens.

 

[bakahump]

 
I'm piling on but actually it is unreasonable. You ever seen one of the playbooks? There's a lot of shit in there and it's not just "play 1 you go there, play 2 you go there"  -- there are a ton of adjustments players have to make.  A month from now there isn't much of an excuse but Wright hasn't been here long at all. 

One part of me understands this.....
 
The other part not so much.
 
Shouldnt the Coaching Staff say "Ok  Wright....we are going to have you learn this Formation and these 8 variations of the formation and play. Good.  Now that you know "Bloomington" We are going to learn "Debarre". Excellent.  Now we focus on "Trenton".....".  Dedicating a Day or even 2 should give you some pretty deep familiarity.
 
Then you use him DURING THOSE PLAYS. I understand that Brady can move him and change his role. 1. We could tell Brady NOT TO. 2. If he learned 5 Plays/Formations inside he should be able to roll with those changes.
 
Sure if this went on for a couple weeks...the Defense could key in on him and "know" that XYZ is coming.  But 2 games in they cant.
 
Plus while I understand that the ENTIRE playbook is complicated  and will take time, learning 3% or 5% or even 10% should be feasible. Even if by the end of the year he only has 47% of the play book that still a tremendous amount of variation.
 
So the question i have is does the Coaching Staff not think like this?  Or is Wright not able to learn "small chunks" for whatever reason?

 

[Stitch01]

PFF grades, for what they are worth, usual caveats, etc
 
Brady 3.1
Vollmer 2.4
Gronk 1.1
Amendola 1.1 (they continue to love his run blocking!)
Connolly 1.0
 
0 drops for WR this week after only 1 in the opener, big improvement from last year so far.
 
Solder -3.6 (penalties were -1.7)
Devey -2.8 (positive in pass protection)
Ridley -1.8 (surprising, 56 yards after contact, 2 broken tackles.  Ran more to the right than left, 3 att/4 yards behind left guard, 3/11 right guard, 4+ YPC elsehwere)
Vereen -1.3
 
Jones 8.4 (not including the blocked FG.  5 Hurries, 2 sacks, 5 stops, just a monster game, best graded 3-4 OLB game this year as far as I can tell)
McCourty 2.3
Mayo 2.2 (4 stops and a QB hit)
Hightower 2.1 (2 sacks, a hurry, a batted pass, 5 stops.  Hurt by penalties, they also thought he covered well.)
Arrington 1.9
Wilfork 1.5
Ryan 1.4
 
Nink -2.3
Chris Jones -1.2
 
Revis thrown at 5 times, 1 catch, 4 yards, 1 INT

 

[Tony C]

On the WRs and Wright, Brady only had 22 throws...so not like a lot of balls to go around. And Wright only had 8 snaps, in deference to Fleming (p.s.: I'd be curious how Fleming graded out) so I do think we're being a bit harsh. The plan was to run. They did and they wore down the Vikes. I think the Vikes are a solid team with a weak QB. It was a blowout because of Cassel, but the Pats played them better than even on the line of scrimmage, so my "quality of life" is decent for the next week. That said, Gronk looks slow, Amendola and LaFell may be blocking demons, but you do sort of want WRs who catch the ball, the OL was okay but hardly great. Not that the Raiders look like much of a challenge, except in a trap game sort of way, but assuming for the home opener the Pats are up for the game and it's an easy one, it'll be interesting to see if they can put forward a convincing effort involving more receivers.
 
As well, in re Devey, I'm not sure how many snaps Stork had -- am guessing 20 or so -- but to my eyes he looked good. Devey wasn't as horrible as he was last week, but seeing him pull is like watching a wounded animal drag his carcass --  absolutely painful. I do wonder if there's a chance we see more Stork at C, Connolly at RG, and Devey not so much. That said, I think Cannon may have been worse than Devey this game....I am beginning to accept the "Cannon is a T, not a G" line.
 
And Solder's poor play remains the real concern.

 

[Stitch01]

Fleming, 0.6, hurt by a penalty they had him good at run blocking
 
Snap counts via PFF
Devey: 67
Solder: 67
Vollmer: 67
Cannon: 58
Connolly: 55
Fleming: 28
Stork: 12
Kline: 9
 
One other interesting thing, Brady only threw 1 pass to the right side outside the numbers all day (think it was the long semi throw away to Amendola)

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I know, I think it was one of his better games as a pro although he didn't actually look that strong to me when he was blocking (I'll defer to others judgments there though).  Certainly rather have him doing that than trying to catch passes or block for screens.

I think you're selling his pass catching ability a little short. During his brief career in Carolina he has about a dozen games of 60+ yards of receiving yards despite never being more than a secondary receiver in a run-oriented offense.

LaFell looked lost out there in Week One and as discussed elsewhere he isn't the first Patriots wideout having trouble adjusting to our complex system which he acknowledged is nothing like he had to digest in Carolina. I've seen him make some tremendous catches as a Panther......he isn't Hoo-man out there.

 

[Stitch01]

He's better at catching passes than Hooman.  Agreed.
 
Im also probably a little bit recency biased by his horrific 58% catch rate/14% drop rate '13 and his penchant for terrible penalties at bad times.  He wasn't as bad in '11 and '12. 

 

[Ed Hillel]

PFF grades, for what they are worth, usual caveats, etc
 

 
To piggyback on this, with caveats and all that:
 
Logan Mankins: -3.5
 
He graded poorly in both run (-2.2) and pass blocking (-1.4). He was (+.1) in the penalty department, though. This, of course, doesn't take away from the fact that Devey has also been terrible, but at least he's young and inexperienced. It's obviously only one game for Mankins, but he may not have been the answer regardless.
 
I'm encouraged to see Stork getting some reps. We've seen Bill build players in before like this, and I'm hoping that's what we're seeing now. In the few snaps I watched him, Stork appeared to get little push, but he was holding his ground. Seemed like a good sign for a kid getting his feet wet. We'll see.

 

[Stitch01]

To be fair, Mankins is probably playing at less than 100% right now

 

[Ed Hillel]

To be fair, Mankins is probably playing at less than 100% right now

 
True, but that's part of being a 32-year old guard in the NFL with an injury history to the lower body.

 

[Stitch01]

For sure.

 

[SumnerH]

Yeah. This was actually my original goal w/ .com - a way to take load off during game threads. FC is on a separate server so effectively doubles how many users we can handle

 
Probably won't help, btw; the web server load is nothing even at peak traffic, it's the database overhead of locking on the posts table that kills performance.  Moving to a different DB format is probably step one in fixing that (away from MyISAM), and putting the DB on SSD or other fast storage would be helpful as well.
 
EDIT: Unless you're replicating posts back and forth between 2 databases.

 

[AlNipper49]

Yeah, replicating via the API.

 

[AlNipper49]

test

 

[AlNipper49]

test from sosh