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Patriots fans, Yankees fans, and always being greedy for more

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by ConigliarosPotential, Jan 22, 2019.

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If you love the Patriots, which of these descriptions most closely fits you as a fan?

  1. I'm slightly embarrassed by how good the Pats have been - it's not a big deal anymore if they lose

    8 vote(s)
    3.6%
  2. I always want the Pats to win, but I don't harbor any ill will toward other teams

    45 vote(s)
    20.3%
  3. I hate the Pats biggest rivals (e.g., Steelers), but I don't harbor ill will toward the average team

    126 vote(s)
    56.8%
  4. Screw them all - nobody likes us, and I hate every other team right back

    43 vote(s)
    19.4%
  1. ConigliarosPotential

    ConigliarosPotential Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,561
    So...as the Patriots prepare for yet another Super Bowl, and fans of the other 31 NFL teams gird themselves for the potential nightmare of another Brady-Belichick title, I thought I'd invite Pats fans to philosophize about what it feels like to be Yankee fans. Well, let me spin that more positively: if you're 30 or under, you probably don't really remember what it was like for the Patriots to consistently suck, but if you're of a certain age you will remember years of heartbreak before these two decades of awesome which are surely right up there with the best extended period of excellence for any American sports team ever. And I'm curious how this period of excellence has transformed you as a sports fan, and more specifically as a Pats fan.

    One consistent trend I've noticed across my time at SoSH is that many if not most Patriots fans don't seem much happier than fans of other teams on a day-to-day basis. Yes, many of you will reflect in the "Celebrating What Is" thread and the weekly Game Ball threads, etc., about this spell of wonderment...but the complaints are still numerous after every loss and whenever anything goes even slightly wrong, and the Game Threads in particular are regularly filled with much anger and angst. And in particular, some people have the ability to get worked into a lather about not just the Pats' natural rivals in the AFC East and the Steelers and other natural targets of hate, but about whichever opponent happens to be in the Pats' crosshairs at any given moment. Some of this will be playful, of course, but some of it isn't...and of that which isn't, some of it is easily justified (e.g., hating the Colts because of everything that went into Deflategate), and some of it rather less so.

    The "five-year rule" (for not criticizing your team after winning a title) that Bill Simmons first proposed - I think when the Pats first won their first Super Bowl, IIRC - seems to work best for fans that are unaccustomed to winning. The more you win, the more you want to keep winning. Winning makes you greedy to win more. And this is not necessarily a criticism: as a Falcons fan, I think right now that a single Super Bowl win would be enough to satisfy me as a sports fan for the rest of my days...but if we get our own Brady/Belichick combination in the post-Matt Ryan era, it's entirely possible that I would transform into that same type of Patriots/Yankees fan, wanting to win more and improve my team's relative place in the history books. And even if your team somehow becomes the greatest of all time, you still want it to win and become the greatest by such a margin that its achievements can never be surpassed. It's all greed, when you look at it that way; whether you'd agree with Gordon Gecko that this kind of greed is good is perhaps a matter of perspective.

    Anyway, many of you were diehard Pats (and Red Sox, and Celtics) fans at the turn of this century: mostly in the NFL doldrums, perhaps feeling your baseball team was cursed, hoping your basketball team might return to its very former glories. Think back to those times, and think of everything that has happened since: are you happy with the sports fan you've become? Do you ever think about how much you hated pre-2004 Yankees fans and how much like them you might (or might not) have become? Is there a place in sports fandom for feeling generous toward fans of other teams (e.g., Chiefs fans after Sunday's game) and feeling satisfied with your lot in life, not *really* worrying about whether the Pats or Red Sox win, or are you always insatiably greedy for more? And if the latter - which I assume would be true for the vast majority of you - how much do you "hate" (real or pretend) other teams and their fans? Is "hate" central to your sporting experience?
     
  2. wiffleballhero

    wiffleballhero Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,363
    Winning is like a drug addiction, in both its euphoric elements and in terms of the ever increasing need for dosing as you get more of it. To switch metaphors, the experience -- and willingness to grant a post-win grace period for winning -- goes on a nautilus shell/golden spiral scale. When your team sucks and has never won, you are on the widest sweep of that shell away from the 'top' (and not moving). Each win brings you in to a tighter and tighter ring (a shorter and shorter time before you need to reach the top again). As Pats fans, that ring is pretty tight, or the doses need to be pretty strong to work (switching back to the first metaphor).

    [​IMG]

    Also, I don't look in the rear view mirror, except I enjoy the Steelers' fans suffering.
     
  3. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    37,113
    I used to harbor a lot of dislike for all other teams after Deflategate but the Atlanta SB win changed a lot. Now it’s more about appreciating what we’re seeing from this franchise. I know I’m never seeing this type of run from any of my teams again so it’s about enjoying the journey.
     
  4. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    10,020
    I get that everyone else in the nation is rooting against the Patriots, so they see every game through that lens. Whenever the Pats win there’s an element of criticizing the coaching decisions of the team they were rooting for or focusing on the bad call that went against them (and not the two bad calls that went in their favor). I suppose it’s a frailty of human nature to see things that way but it leads me to basically avoid a lot of media.

    I’m just grateful that through these many years of success I, like many on this board, have been able to rise to the occasion and maintain my composure and objectivity.

    Anyway, it’s the greatest run in NFL history and the second greatest run in Boston sports history and it’s pretty damned fun.
     
  5. dcdrew10

    dcdrew10 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,225
    Coming of football age in the Tony Eason/Dough Flutie 1.0/Marc Wilson/Tommy Hodson/Hugh Millen/Zolak years I watched a lot of basement dwelling teams and a couple of 2 wins or less teams. I have now been around for 5 Super Bowl wins, 4 World Series wins, 3 (technically 4) NBA Championships and a Stanley Cup. I used to get a lot more upset. I remember my dad, a former minor league defenseman weeping when Bourque raised the cup with Colorado. Maybe it's complacency or sports being less important, but We've come a long way since the late 80s/early 90s Patsies. It feels greedy to get upset if the Patriots don't win. I am at the point now where I feel worse for the players who didn't get the ring (particularly Seau) than I do about the Patriots not winning. We're play with house money at this point.
     
    #5 dcdrew10, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  6. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,338
    ???
     
  7. dcdrew10

    dcdrew10 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,225
    Typo, but hopefully a Tony Romo-level prescience.
     
  8. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    33,338
  9. SoxVindaloo

    SoxVindaloo Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    905
    You raise some great points. To me everything changed after SB 49. I despeatately wanted the 4th for legacy and the pursuit of that for 10 years was making me miserable. After that I realized I’m playing with house money and have enjoyed the ride wayyy more.
    Stuff within a single game can still piss me off (see Miami Miracle) but it doesn’t have the same trauma attached to it. Even last years SB loss didn’t bother me anywhere near the way the 2nd Giants SB loss did. The SB 42 loss was up there with 1986 and 2003 Sox trauma for me.
     
  10. PC Drunken Friar

    PC Drunken Friar Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,175
    I watch sports to be entertained. for 4 of the last 5 years, the Patriots have kept me entertained for 19 weeks a year. It is great if they win, but I don't get upset if they lose.
     
  11. Caspir

    Caspir Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,175
    Yup, post 28-3 I no longer care about a lot of the noise. They were vindicated after Deflategate by crushing the souls of the NFL. Today, I'm just really freaking happy that I get to enjoy this. After the first SB, I figured I'd seen my team win one, so I was good. Then the 03-04 teams came around, and my mindset changed to, oh, we are doing something really special.

    2006-2013 was "tough" in that they didn't win anything, but they were still amazing, and I will love that '07 team forever, despite the Scottish Game. These past couple years have been the equivalent of Jeff Bezos playing and hitting Powerball. There's no need, it is overkill and kind of dickish, but fuck if it isn't fun.
     
  12. Ralphwiggum

    Ralphwiggum Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,997
    Child of the 70s/80s here, sat through many games in the worst stadium in football, thought they were moving to St. Louis, thought they were moving to Hartford. My only experience in seeing the Patriots in any NFL Films stuff was in the annual blooper reel. They weren't even a real NFL team until Parcells, Drew and then Kraft showed up, at which point in time I was in my 20s and in college. So I am going to shamelessly ride this until it ends. I don't feel bad for fans of any other team, nor do I feel the need to apologize for being a Patriots fan. It is just shit luck that I happen to be a fan of this team at this point in their history, their success has nothing to do with me. The 3 people who said they are slightly embarrassed by the Pats, I can't understand that in a million years.

    It used to bother me that the Patriots were so hated, I actually grew up liking the 49ers and admiring their greatness. But now, if people cannot appreciate what is happening and how we'll never see anything like this in our lifetimes, then whatever. I get being sick and tired of the Patriots and hating them and wanting to see someone else win, but being unable to appreciate how great they have been and chalking it all up to them being a bunch of cheaters is frankly childish.

    I get into the games and want them to win, but the losses fade away pretty quickly. They are playing with massive amounts of house money. I am enjoying the hell out of the ride.
     
  13. koufax32

    koufax32 He'll cry if he wants to... SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,758
    I don’t think there’s a direct parallel between the two clubs so I reject the initial premise. But to answer how I cheer for my team, there are several factors:
    1. NE can’t buy a championship. With cap rules in place there is no economic advantage. I enjoy the fact that my team does the exact same thing as everyone else. They just do it better.
    2. The team, starting with the coach, approach the game the way we should all approach life. My oldest is 7. I can’t tell you the number of times she’s had a problem with a classmate and we’ve had the talk about only worrying about what you can control. You’re responsible for how you react because nobody can force you to make bad decisions. I’m literally a better parent for being a Patriots fan. Compare that to the whining that comes from other places.
    3. I used to be vengeful about the haters. Now, every win is just another opportunity to laugh at them. I’ve learned that people are more prone to tear you down than they are to try to raise themselves up to where you are. Again, life lessons.
    4. I want another SB because I want this dynasty to Gretzky. IOW I want them to make it so that there’s no chance anyone ever catches Brady or BB. So each win is more valuable to me now because it will be what creates more distance between them and #2.
    5. My wife’s family are all Colts fans so lololol.
     
  14. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,496
    I don't like the jets, (small j) and didn't like any team Peyton Manning played for, but I no longer hate the Colts for employing him, though I still harbor some resentment that they were gutless crybabies re Deflategate. But other than that i generally just savor the Pats specialness and just harbor modest levels of sports hate towards their opponents. Steelers are usually good for a laugh. Fuck the Ravens though.
     
  15. The Allented Mr Ripley

    The Allented Mr Ripley holden Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,478
    I was pretty pissed off/let down after the Super Bowl loss last year, but at the same time I was genuinely happy for the many long-suffering Eagles fans out there.

    Had the Pats lost on Sunday, I'd have been upset/mad/disappointed, but part of me would have been happy for Chiefs fans and excited to see what Mahomes would do on the biggest stage.

    Maybe I've become a better person in my middle age. The Patriots' success has certainly made it easy to be that way. I'm so disgusted with myself.
     
  16. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

    Messages:
    32,545
    Live and let live. For the most part if you're rational in your hatred of the Pats that's fine, but if you're one of those "Brady is a cheater!!" type of dudes, then I enjoy laughing at you.

    During games, in the moment, I'm worked up, but had generally okay pretty quickly. Disappointed still, but not bitter. Like, if the Pats had lost Sunday, it would have sucked because I would've actually had to do some work in the office instead of watch highlights and read Pats-related stories all day.

    So, while I still don't like certain teams, it's not visceral like my sports fandom used to be (2003/04 Sox-MFYs).

    Except for Steelers fans--fuck those people.
     
  17. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,684
    I'm still pissed off about deflategate. (1) no one at the NFL level or from another team or ESPN has admitted how bullshit the whole thing was. (2) the league (and every other team in the league) was petty and vindictive in purposefully attacking the reputation of their greatest player. (3) they took away our draft picks.

    If the Patriots had their 2016 1st round pick and their 2017 4th round pick back, do the Patriots win the Super Bowl against the Eagles?

    The Colts, the Jets, the Broncos, the Panthers, the Giants, the Ravens, the Texans, the Eagles, the Dolphins, the Titans, the Jaguars, the Bills, the Seahawks, the Cowboys, the Rams, the Steelers (a laughable rival by the way), etc. - screw every team in the league and screw their fans.

    Edit: that said, if they lost to the Chiefs I wouldn't have been very hurt or upset (beyond really wanting Gronk to get one more championship).
     
    #17 pappymojo, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  18. Rovin Romine

    Rovin Romine Johnny Rico Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,070
    The generational arc probably has some weight in this. I came into pre-adolescent sports awareness in the late 70s/early80s in CT.
    So, as a kid (grammar school through the end of high school):
    1) My heart was broken by the '86 Sox, and I inherited my parents/grandparents multi-generational angst. The game was always on the radio or TV in the background for half the days of the year. I read the paper to find out the night scores on the west coast trip, and along with the comics page, was one of the first things I looked forward to in the AM. I still love the team, and am irked/annoyed by other teams/players, but the whole cultural/regional rivalry v. the Yankees started evaporating about 10 years ago.
    2) As a kid the Celtics were my dad's thing, more than mine. They were always excellent when I first became aware of them, but I didn't play basketball, so I didn't much care much on a day to day basis, but did follow them somewhat, on TV and Radio, and definitely during the playoffs. UCONN basketball was sort of a blank till the '90s, but then it was more compelling than the Celtics were. The decline years were unfortunate, but not personally gut-wrenching, as they seemed to be for my father's generation.
    2a) This line designates the Olympics were more anticipated, watched, and thought about than anything following. Possibly a cold-war byproduct.
    3) The Bruins were always in it and the Whalers were the Whalers, which were basically the lesser version of the Bruins. Games were cool to go to, but, honestly, it was more of a playoff-watching sport. Again, hockey as a kids-also-play-it sport just wasn't a huge thing in CT.
    3a) This line designates the World Cup was more anticipated, watched and thought about than anything following.
    4) Football. Hey, NE has a team and they're in the Superbowl? (Well, that was an embarrassment not to be brought up again.) Hey, do we still have a team? Don't they play in a rat-trap somewhere? One of my friend's fat fathers, the one from Ohio, knows a lot about them - how quirky. I think he's into NACSAR too, or whatever it's called. But he's a nice guy, so we'll listen for a bit.

    So, for both the Bruins and Patriots (and the Celtics to an extent), I have watched them during their recent (relative) peaks, but with no earlier baggage. I root for them when they're on, but missing games won't kill me, and I'm pretty much happy with whatever comes. I'd like the Sox to be competitive for the rest of my life, since (as recent years have shown) life-less basement versions of the Sox bring me little joy. But, it's not so much about the winning, but the competing. I won't get worked up over it, but the Yanks can just endure failure after failure, and I'd be perfectly fine with that.
     
  19. Preacher

    Preacher Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    1,586
    Same here. They're from Indianapolis and my wife's grandfather used to work for the Colts. She's also a Yankees fan (found a real winner). Although, as much as she hated the Patriots when we first met, she was up with me at 12:30-4:30am watching the AFCCG and cheering for the Patriots. I'd like to think I converted her. Although, if they play head-to-head, she still roots for the Colts. That did become an issue when we were at Gillette for the AFCCG back in 2015 (2014 season) that started the whole Deflategate bullshit. Luckily, the second half was such a laugher, the fans around us began to pity her and her Pat McAfee jersey.

    At the end of the day, of course I want the Patriots to win. But, I also appreciate all the success they've had. I'm amazed that it has happened through free agency and the salary cap. Even with the NFL stealing draft picks for bullshit infractions, the Patriots continue to be successful. I find that pretty amazing. Two decades of sustained success in any sport is amazing but in this particular era, it's just something you have to realize you will never see again. Fans of other teams should spend less time hating the Patriots and more time questioning why their franchise isn't run in a similar fashion.
     
  20. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    7,890
    I find I can see the bright side of things like the Eagles Super Bowl loss now. At least 1) it brought a lot of joy to Eagles fans and to Philadelphia, which is a city I really like; 2) it weakens Eli Manning's HoF case, since hey, if you get some breaks even a team with a backup QB can beat the Patriots.
     
  21. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

    Messages:
    8,935
    I don't hold onto hate for any teams. Not even the Yankees. 2004 cured me of all of that.

    That said, I completely and utterly want the Red Sox and the Patriots to win every single championship every single year. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a "winner" here. That's exactly what the goal is. To wish for anything but victory seems disingenuous and kinda patronizing to other teams. These are sports, and they're the best of the best. There's no vlaue in "sharing" the wins. The goal is to win.

    That said, if the better team wins in the end and it's not the Red Sox or the Patriots, then I'm happy for the team that won. The Eagles win wasn't a sad thing for me at all. I was of course disappointed in the Pats' ability to make a single stop the entire game, but Brady played his ass off. They got beat, but they got beat by a team that showed respect and fire and guts and legitimately beat the Pats straight up. I'm happy for them, too.
     
  22. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

    Messages:
    10,190
    Like Rip, I was happy for Eagles fans after the sting of the loss. I think the benefit of this run has been that it's not a random magic season coming to an end, they're in the final 4 every year and I was confident they'd get another shot. I'm not a jackass about my fandom and don't taunt opposing fans, which is where most of my dislike of the Yankees came from. As I got older, I realized there's jerks and good people in every fanbase. You can't label and entire group of people. I actually liked that 1996 Yankees team. I can appreciate greatness of opposing players. It's surprising to me how relatively few that seem to be able to do that for the Patriots. Do I want them to win? Absolutely. In the moment, you want the team you are rooting for to win. However, I have perspective and when the game is over I'm not crushed if they lose. I'm happy when they win, but it will never be as euphoric as the 2001 Pats or 2004 Red Sox.
     
  23. terrynever

    terrynever Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    13,956
    As a Yankee fan since the mid-1950s, the parallel for me between the two long-running (20 years and more) dynasties of my lifetime is pretty evident. The Yankees went to the World Series 10 times in 12 years from 1947-59 and then five straight between 1960-64 before old age and the new baseball draft and expansion struck them down.
    The Patriots have reached a similar saturation point in a sport and time where it is much harder to qualify for the championship game. So eight straight conference games, five SBs won in 18 years, in an era of one-and-done playoff contests, is truly remarkable.
    The Yankees were hated for being haughty, and just too damn good. Their key stars were generally well-liked by their peers. They were envied because they played in New York City, a place that people around the country generally did not like.
    These Patriots are hated, imo, because they are too good and too smart. Belichick’s legacy is secure. He is a walking history of the NFL for the past 35 years. He has seven SB rings! Brady is the best QB ever, albeit in an era where QBs are protected by the rules.
    The Yankees’ lengthy dynasty prevailed from 1921-64 because the rules of baseball were in their favor. There were no rules! The Patriots from 2000-2019 have reigned inside a system rigged towards parity. That’s the big difference I see between the two dynasties.
    People hate them both for reasons of jealousy.
    As for the Yanks from 1996-2001, that’s not long enough time. A real dynasty turns over from one generation to the next.
     
  24. Super Nomario

    Super Nomario Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,833
    I don't hate other teams, but I have learned to enjoy the salt of crybaby fans after the Patriots win. Not so much fans of the opposing team, but fans of unconcerned third parties who just hate the Pats.
     
  25. trotsplits

    trotsplits Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    467
    I'll hate the Steelers regardless of what the Pats do. It goes back to the 70's. I'm convinced they pioneered the use of steroids, were dirty as fuck, benefited from the Rooney's place in the NFL hierarchy and created just as many bandwagon fans, if not more, than the Cowboys or Packers.
     
  26. hittery

    hittery Member SoSH Member

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    8,292
    I hate them all, except for the Seahawks and the Lions (long story) and I always will. This will remain true for the rest of my days.
     
  27. Jed Zeppelin

    Jed Zeppelin Member SoSH Member

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    33,939
    I'd say during the regular season I harbor no ill-will toward the average team but during the playoffs a flip switches in my brain and I turn into The Bride and every other team/fan is a part of the Crazy 88s.
     
  28. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    20,313
    I hate the Ravens and Jets the most, kind of started to only dislike the Steelers, but they're hated now too. For some reason, I have not much ill will towards Fins, Bills, Broncos, and even the Giants, even though . . .

    2006-2011 time period really pissed me off by not having a title, wasting Moss, almost perfect season, etc, but Butler and 28-3 kind of mellowed me out.

    The funny thing, I may have liked football, the sport, better during the pre-Brady season. The Lippett/Veris/Tippett preaseason game pre 1-15 was rough,but I kind of enjoyed that season like a trainwreck. It was a better game then

    But obviously the Brady and BB years are better, but I just have expect them to win every year. I just do. So yeah, I probably feel like a 1962 Yankees fan.
     
  29. SMU_Sox

    SMU_Sox loves his fluffykins SoSH Member

    Messages:
    6,139
    I don't hate anyone like I used to but I still loathe the Ravens and the Steelers. I felt some happiness for the Philly fans and would have been ok losing to KC (still upset but happy for Reid, KC, and Mahomes). Winning for this long is a thing of beauty. Every year I appreciate them more and also hate the other guys a little less.
     
  30. Bergs

    Bergs Member SoSH Member

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    12,380
    Deflategate made it personal for me. It was such a railroad job, and such a perfect microcosm of the abuse of power and post-factualism that plagues our society, that I took it way more seriously than I should. In hindsight, the fact that so many people could be so willfully ignorant and so enamored with taking sides without critical thought should have warned me about what was going to happen in November 2016.

    So yeah, the hate flows through me.
     
  31. Mugsy's Jock

    Mugsy's Jock Longtime Member Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    9,805
    Football: I definitely hate so many other teams it’s hard for me to settle on which I hate the most. Steelers, Jets, Ravens, Colts, Broncos, Dolphins, Redskins. (Interestingly i don’t hate the Giants). And despite the Patriots great success, I just can’t give them the five-year leash. A year without a Super Bowl appearance is a calamity, I think mostly because I can see Brady/Belichick sunset...perhaps in as little as 15 years.

    Baseball: I hate the Yankees on principle, but it’s been tougher the last couple of years without a real villain to zero in on. Chapman? Gardner? I really wanted the Yankees to sign Machado to give me a better excuse to irrationally hate them. At the same time, the five-year rule absolutely applies in baseball for me. The Sox don’t owe me anything for five years aside from not being jerks and not hiring Bobby Valentine.
     
  32. BornToRun

    BornToRun Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    11,000
    I wouldn’t say I actively hate all of the other teams but I have no sympathy for their various plights. I know they hate us so why should I care about them? It’s partly because I live in NY/PA territory and am surrounded by fans that hate us so there’s an extra touch of shit eating grin to my behavior around them. I don’t go out of my way to be a dick but if the topic comes up I play to it quite a bit.
     
  33. 8slim

    8slim Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,252
    Having rivals and rooting against them is one of the more enjoyable aspects of being a fan. I watch a lot of NFL Red Zone with my kids on Sundays and while we prioritize rooting for outcomes that benefit the Pats, absent that circumstance we root against the Jets/Dolphins/Bills, Steelers, Ravens, Colts, Broncos and Giants because they're rivals (at least to me, for varying reasons) and I want them to lose. Ultimately I know that most fan bases are the same and the reasons to dislike a franchise are pretty arbitrary, but whatever, its sports.

    In terms of being "happier" day to day I'm not sure it's all that difficult to understand. Like others, I grew up watching the Pats of the 80s and early 90s, and thus watched a lot of mediocre-to-awful football. Words don't adequately express how much I appreciate this run of success since 2001. Pretty much any 4-to-5 year chunk of the past 18 years would have been amazing on its own, and yet we've been fortunate to experience all of it. But despite that I'm still human and will belly ache when Edelman drops a pass, or we lose games this year like we did to Detroit or Tennessee. Doesn't mean I'm not supremely happy in the grand scheme of things.
     
  34. Pitt the Elder

    Pitt the Elder Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    460
    It's interesting to contrast my feelings towards the Patriots with the Red Sox over the past 17 years. The Pats have won 5 championships and the Sox have won 4 but my feeling towards the two teams are very different. Between their championship runs, the Sox have had some mediocre-to-terrible seasons (2006, 2012, 2014, etc) where the team struggled and missed the playoffs. In a way, these poor seasons are palette cleansers that make the subsequent championships all that more enjoyable. In contrast, since this amazing run has started, the Patriots have only missed the playoffs twice (9-7 in 2002 and 11-5 in the Brady-less 2008), and the expectation in each season from 2003 onward is that that Pats *could* and maybe *should* win the Super Bowl. That expectation has definitely made being a Patriots fan a more anxious experience for me because I would often feel more relief than joy when the Pats won. And given how often they have been in legitimate contention, most seasons end with sharp feelings of disappointment, frustration, and anger, which is way more exhausting than a shrugged indifference when your team finishes 6-10.

    That said, I recognize how special this run has been and I realize that even the loses are special. I was texting my brother during the KC game when Brady had the ball down by 4 with two minutes ago, and I was like, isn't amazing how often we've been here? That number of all-time games and drives we've witnessed is mind-blowing. If the game ended with that interception off of Gronk's hands, I think I would have still been able to appreciate the fact that we were witnessing another chapter in the most dominant run in sports history. As fans, it's hard to ask for more.
     
  35. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    10,020
    I’m not sure how you leave out the Celtics Red Auerbach dynasty (1956-57 to 1975-76 they had 13 titles in 20 years; you can extend it another 11 year’s and get 16 titles in 30 years and 19 Finals appearances in 31). Montréal also won 16 Stanley Cups in 27 years (1953-1979) or something so there are four major dynasties in the four major pro team sports in your lifetime.
     
  36. terrynever

    terrynever Member SoSH Member

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    13,956
    As someone who grew up in the Philly suburbs, I have blacked out the Celtics’ dynasty. It never happened. Canadiens did not matter.
     
  37. Ralphwiggum

    Ralphwiggum Member SoSH Member

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    4,997
    One other thing to note about the SB last year and the game coming up in two weeks, lots of morons in the media and some opposing fans will use Super Bowl losses as a mark against both TB and BB when it comes to discussing their legacy, as if somehow losing in the playoffs or not making the playoffs in non-Super Bowl years is a superior accomplishment. This is the stupidest of all stupid takes, but it is out there and it causes me to want them to win really, really badly in two weeks, even though we already have 5 in the bank.
     
  38. CantKeepmedown

    CantKeepmedown Member SoSH Member

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    1,676
    That is the Ben Volin argument. He said last year that Brady losing in the AFCC ultimately would have been better for his legacy, so as not to have another SB loss. I can't imagine he'll waver from it this year. As if Brady's legacy isn't already firmly cemented.

    I have a bad habit of checking out other teams message boards after big wins. Colts, Ravens, Steelers, Broncos, ect.......that's what makes me hate these other teams. Not necessarily the players, but the fans. They'll trip over themselves coming up with reasons the Pats are still winning........they cheat, luckiest team ever, shitty division, ect. It's ridiculous.

    As for the media idiots that hate, I'm not sure half of them believe what they say. But hating the Patriots is a simple way to get your name out there. Seriously, would anyone know or care who the Max Kellerman/Rob Parker's of the world are if they didn't hate on the Pats/Brady?
     
  39. Valek123

    Valek123 Member SoSH Member

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    797
    I had never thought about this issue like you framed it, the only thing that makes it even crazier is that the thought process of many fans was spread across political lines. I know both ends of the political spectrum that believe both sides of this. Your point about it fore-shadowing the lack of critical thinking is spot on though, painfully so.
     
  40. BunnzMcGinty

    BunnzMcGinty lurker

    Messages:
    176
    A lot of these comments resonate very strongly with me.

    I'm in my early 40's, so grew up with the Patriots of the 80s. My first Pats memory was a Pats-Colts game in 83 or 84 my father took me to at Sullivan Stadium (what Foxboro was called that year) The feeling I got from the adults was that the Pats were a bunch of lovable losers. We never expected the team to be big winners. Indeed, the season after 1-15, when Dick McPherson won 6 games, seemed like a banner year for us. We counted ourselves lucky if the Pats made the highlight reel on George Michael's Sports Machine instead of the blooper reel. We had the teams we would root for in the playoffs after the Pats got knocked out of contention (mine was the Bills. That four year SB run was tough) Even the Parcells years felt like an anomaly. We knew he would leave and we would be irrelevant again, and that was fine.

    So the first half of the Brady/Belichick era was like manna from heaven. I was happy and grateful for the success, and didn't feel greedy about it. What really changed things for me was Spygate and Deflategate. Seeing people's willingness to ignore facts to support their biases, and trash the name and reputation not only of the team, but the greatest head coach and QB in the history of the game, who got where they did by doing everything the right way, hard work, study and practice, just made my blood boil, and still does.

    I want the Patriots to rub it in. I want every win to be a humiliating blowout. I want every other fan base to suffer for what they did and said. I want to look at their body of work in 20 years knowing it will never be equaled. I want Belichick to have a plan in place for his successor and the organization to continue dominating and exacting revenge on the league for as long as I live. To be sure, there are teams I loathe more than others (Steelers, Jets, Dolphins, Giants, Raiders, Cowboys, Jags, Ravens, Colts) but if you're on our schedule, you're dogmeat to me.
     
  41. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    4,744
    I doubt that Doug will ever let himself go that bad though..
     
  42. Marbleheader

    Marbleheader Dope Dope

    Messages:
    10,190
    Perhaps in his, but not in most of our lifetimes. I wouldn't compare these or the Yankees to what the Patriots are doing. The Yankees have won 4 WS since 1980, which is about the first year I can remember. Same as the Red Sox and the Giants and Cardinals have 3. Since free agency began in earnest in all 4 leagues, dynasties prior to that were almost the norm. One great team and a handful of contenders. This is still somewhat true in the NBA where superteams go on runs where you only need a few great players. However, in the NFL, NBA, MLB, the expectations are so different, teams rise and fall so rapidly, the Patriots run is unfathomable in this era. So, Patriots fans are in a unique position regarding this discussion.
     
  43. lars10

    lars10 Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    4,744
    One thing that is notable is how not a single mention of measuring the balls or air pressure or procedures or etc etc has been mentioned since it was so big a deal that they had to take four games away from the GOAT.. It's like they're embarrassed to bring it up again other than to say something about cheating. That there's no other evidence of air pressures taken at any other games ever is proof enough to me that it was all bs.
     
  44. nattysez

    nattysez Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    3,422
    I'm 46 and in the same place as those who remember the Pats being a semi-laughingstock playing in a dump -- rarely on TV (am I making up following the news to determine whether enough tickets would sell for them to be on TV? I don't think I am) -- that occasionally dabbled in competence. Of the various kicks in the balls delivered to fans over the years, I don't see mentioned above the fact that every time they sniffed something good, disaster struck -- the Chuck Fairbanks mess, the drugs revelations after the 1986 Super Bowl, Parcells leaving and taking Curtis Martin after the 1996 Super Bowl, etc. No matter how well things seemed to be going, bad times were always right around the corner.

    So now that they are historically amazing, I have zero qualms about hoping it lasts forever.
     
    #44 nattysez, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  45. Bergs

    Bergs Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,380
    I have no doubt that the NFL took measurements and REALLY didn't like what they saw.
     
  46. Sam Ray Not

    Sam Ray Not Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,162
    As a 51 year-old "long-suffering" Sox-Pats-Warriors fan, if circa 2001 you had offered me ONE GUARANTEED TITLE among my three sad-sack teams over the next 18 years, I would have taken that deal without further questions. (Full disclosure: I'm slightly less amped about football than the other two sports, but still would have happily taken one Pats title).

    12 championships later (and counting?), there's a fair measure of "slight embarrassment and not a big deal if they lose." At the same time, with the Pats and Warriors in particular (the Sox don't get nearly the same level of national antipathy), it's hard not to occasionally want to return some of the hate. Hi there, Max Kellerman. :)
     
  47. 8slim

    8slim Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    12,252
    You're not making that up. There were very few home games shown on TV in the 80s, right up until Kraft bought the team and the sellout streak started in '94. I grew up in Foxboro. Lots of fathers in my neighborhood had season tickets but rarely took us kids because the place was such a wretched hive of scum and villainy. Home games were almost never on TV. My buddies and I would play football in someone's yard on Sundays while we listened to the Pats on the radio.
     
  48. millionthcustomer

    millionthcustomer Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    520
    At this point, I'm 100% invested in the Patriots' climb to the top of the mountain - six (or maybe seven) titles. After they won their first, I was just happy that they won one - especially as they were massive underdogs. When they won 3 out of 4 in the early 2000s I was happy that they had joined the ranks of the 90s Cowboys, the 80s 49ers, and the 70s Stellers - it was like we claimed "our" decade, but we just did it early in the decade.

    But then came 2007 and that run at true immortality. For some reason that loss still hurts today, because they were so.....freaking.....close! I'd trade the Butler game and/or the 28-3 game in a heartbeat for that title.

    Now that they've won two more, they are only one title away from being tied for the most all-time. That matters to me now. It shouldn't, but it does. I know that they have had an incredible run of excellence that is well documented in the "Celebrating What Is" thread. But now it's like I've been reading a really long series of novels and I'm hoping the protagonist gets to that mountaintop. And I rage at anyone who stands in their way. I rage at anyone who tries to minimize what this organization has done, or anywho chalks it up to "luck," "cheating," or any excuse that suits them. These are my guys. Fuck everyone and anyone else.
     
    #48 millionthcustomer, Jan 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  49. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    4,198
    I voted “hate em all” but in reality the severe hate is relegated to the Steelers, Ravens, colts, and Jets. Those teams can burn. The rest I passively hate... mostly their fans
     
  50. Carlos Cowart

    Carlos Cowart Land of Enchantment Lifetime Member SoSH Member

    Messages:
    5,310
    "I always want the Pats to win, but I don't harbor any ill will toward other teams"

    This is where I'm at. I hate no teams and really no fans, right up until the point when they mention cheating, taping walk-throughs, deflating footballs etc. I mostly just laugh at those idiots because when screaming "Cheatriots" is all you've got after 18 years of dominance you should be laughed at. I love that those fans exist and that every time Brady completes a pass, the Pats get a first down, get a favorable call, a good bounce, or win a friggen a coin flip, their aneurysms get a little closer to doing us all a favor.

    Fans who merely hate the Pats because they've been stomping on everyone's balls for the last 2 decades are fine. I'd likely be one of them if I weren't born here.
     

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