Papelbon Done for the Season

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

I didn't see another thread on this... apologies if I missed it.
 
Papelbon will drop his 3 game league suspension appeal, and then the Nationals are suspending him for 4 games.

 

[OfTheCarmen]

I've seen some teammate arguments/etc previously...but Paps went for the throat like a hitman.  That dude has issues.

 

[mauidano]

He's done in Washington too. Bryce Harper deserved the attitude adjustment. Just shouldn't have come from Papelbon.  Bad reflection on Matt Williams, he didn't have a clue until long after the game.  He's done too.  What a dysfunctional shit show.

 

[foulkehampshire]

I'd like to see him go after Ortiz after jogging out a ground ball or lazy fly. 
 
Ortiz would absolutely CRUSH him.

 

[Wingack]

He's done in Washington too. Bryce Harper deserved the attitude adjustment. Just shouldn't have come from Papelbon.  Bad reflection on Matt Williams, he didn't have a clue until long after the game.  He's done too.  What a dysfunctional shit show.

 
 
I never thought I would say this this season but: Natstown!

 

[Pearl Wilson]

Shortly after the Sox game ended, TC brought this up on NESN to Wake and Steve Lyons. Wakefield would not touch it. Steve said and I quote "Papelbon is an idiot". What a contrast! I wonder what Eck would have said.

 

[B H Kim]

He's done in Washington too. Bryce Harper deserved the attitude adjustment. Just shouldn't have come from Papelbon.  Bad reflection on Matt Williams, he didn't have a clue until long after the game.  He's done too.  What a dysfunctional shit show.

Serious question: what's wrong with Harper's attitude? People seem to have adopted opinions on him based on what he did in the minors or when he was a rookie. I follow the team pretty closely and I don't see anything wrong with his attitude. Adam Kilgore was the Post beat writer for Harper's entire career until this season and I think he nails it here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/09/28/criticism-of-bryce-harper-in-papelbon-scuffle-is-off-base-and-out-of-date/

 

[Pearl Wilson]

Eck: "moron" "tired act".
 
Harper and Paps saying... things.
 
I'm an only child so I don't know how "brothers fight".

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Papelbon: what a meathead.

Glad we got his best years, and 2007's flag will always fly, of course. But geez, man.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Serious question: what's wrong with Harper's attitude? People seem to have adopted opinions on him based on what he did in the minors or when he was a rookie. I follow the team pretty closely and I don't see anything wrong with his attitude. Adam Kilgore was the Post beat writer for Harper's entire career until this season and I think he nails it here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/09/28/criticism-of-bryce-harper-in-papelbon-scuffle-is-off-base-and-out-of-date/

 
 
And he didn't really loaf on the popup that Paps was so mad about. He was at first by the time it was caught. Harper is 22 years old and a superstar and he knows it, which apparently rubs people the wrong way, but he did nothing wrong here.
 
Papelbon's a goddamn idiot. As a younger man it was funny and charming, but now his rampant stupidity has morphed into anger and douchebaggery. His poor wife.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

You guys don't have a problem with Harper throwing Paps under the bus in the press?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Not at all. Because Harper didn't do anything wrong, as as Kilgore pointed out in the article, Harper's played a helluva lot more baseball than Papelbon has this year.
 
Papelbon was wrong. Period.

 

[soxhop411]

You guys don't have a problem with Harper throwing Paps under the bus in the press?

But its true… Harper most likely would have been thrown at after what paps did...

 

[Alcohol&Overcalls]

You guys don't have a problem with Harper throwing Paps under the bus in the press?

 
If we switched their ages, would we think Harper the Vet was totally right in correcting stupid and destructive dickhead behavior by an out-of-line relief pitcher?

 

[Oil Can Dan]

So what? Talk to Paps yourself instead of through the media then. The question was "what's wrong with Harpers attitude". If the question was specifically about his attitude on the field I apologize, but it's very obvious that this whole thing was about Harper calling out Paps in the press, not about running hard to first.

If Mo Vaughn criticized Pedro via CHB for plunking someone that showed another pitcher up I'd be pissed at Mo for taking it public. If Pedro attacked him in the dugout the next day (ha) he'd be wrong for doing so, but wouldn't change the fact that Mo was wrong too.

 

[threecy]

If Mo Vaughn criticized Pedro via CHB for plunking someone that showed another pitcher up I'd be pissed at Mo for taking it public. If Pedro attacked him in the dugout the next day (ha) he'd be wrong for doing so, but wouldn't change the fact that Mo was wrong too.

I'm not sure what that's referring to, but we don't have to look too far to find a parallel with the Red Sox.  In 2008, Manny Ramirez went after Kevin Youkilis in the dugout during a game.

Edit: 2008, not 2010.

 

[AB in DC]

So what? Talk to Paps yourself instead of through the media then. The question was "what's wrong with Harpers attitude". If the question was specifically about his attitude on the field I apologize, but it's very obvious that this whole thing was about Harper calling out Paps in the press, not about running hard to first.

If Mo Vaughn criticized Pedro via CHB for plunking someone that showed another pitcher up I'd be pissed at Mo for taking it public. If Pedro attacked him in the dugout the next day (ha) he'd be wrong for doing so, but wouldn't change the fact that Mo was wrong too.

 
Someone please explain to me how "Harper isn't perfect" somehow makes Papelbon's actions any less wrong.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

I'm not sure what that's referring to, but we don't have to look too far to find a parallel with the Red Sox.  In 2010, Manny Ramirez went after Kevin Youkilis in the dugout during a game.

Which is incredible considering Manny was traded two years earlier. You may be confusing the incident with when Manny beat up his wife a year later.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

He has the year wrong, but Manny and Youk most certainly had it out in the dugout one game.

 

[tomdeplonty]

He has the year wrong, but Manny and Youk most certainly had it out in the dugout one game.

 
Didn't that happen very shortly before Manny got shipped out of town?
 
EDIT: the fight was in early June, 2008. Manny was traded at deadline that season.

 

[Rough Carrigan]

The gung holier than thou crowd has had it in for Harper from day 1.  The ridiculous benching by dimwit Matt Williams last year came after Harper hit a hard one hopper right at the pitcher and the pitcher had the ball in firm control before Harper had gotten two steps out of the batter's box.  Harper did a U turn to the dugout without ever reaching the bag but any honest appraisal of the play would admit that any more running than Harper did would have been purely for show.  A word in private from his dim bulb manager would have been plenty.  Harper's always played the game hard.  He dives for balls in the outfield, runs the bases hard when it's not time for fake hustle and got himself minor injuries for his trouble. 
 
It would be nice if some of his detractors could be honest and admit that there's a dollop of jealousy fueling their reactions to everything Harper does.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

The gung holier than thou crowd has had it in for Harper from day 1.  The ridiculous benching by dimwit Matt Williams last year came after Harper hit a hard one hopper right at the pitcher and the pitcher had the ball in firm control before Harper had gotten two steps out of the batter's box.  Harper did a U turn to the dugout without ever reaching the bag but any honest appraisal of the play would admit that any more running than Harper did would have been purely for show.  A word in private from his dim bulb manager would have been plenty.  Harper's always played the game hard.  He dives for balls in the outfield, runs the bases hard when it's not time for fake hustle and got himself minor injuries for his trouble. 
 
It would be nice if some of his detractors could be honest and admit that there's a dollop of jealousy fueling their reactions to everything Harper does.

Yeah, I've really felt like he's gotten a bad rap since the day his high school mug appeared on the cover of SI. Is he arrogant? Sure, but most successful athletes are. He plays hard, has gotten hurt a couple times because of it and it certainly seems the older players think he has had some kind of entitlement complex that he deserves ridicule. We are not in the clubhouse to see his everyday actions obviously, but it certainly seems he catches more shit than he deserves out of some kind of combination of jealousy and establishment from the old guard. It's really tough to remember the kid is only 22.

 

[singaporesoxfan]

Yeah, I've really felt like he's gotten a bad rap since the day his high school mug appeared on the cover of SI. Is he arrogant? Sure, but most successful athletes are. He plays hard, has gotten hurt a couple times because of it and it certainly seems the older players think he has had some kind of entitlement complex that he deserves ridicule. We are not in the clubhouse to see his everyday actions obviously, but it certainly seems he catches more shit than he deserves out of some kind of combination of jealousy and establishment from the old guard. It's really tough to remember the kid is only 22.

 
Yeah, the proof that he's gotten a bad rap to me was Cole Hamels hitting him with a pitch for no real reason other than "I'm a vet and you're the cocky rookie", even though Harper had done absolutely nothing to Hamels at that point. I love Harper's attitude, he plays hard, and frankly, maybe all the other Nats hitters run all out to first base because they don't seem to know how to reach any of the other bases.
 
On Harper's age, it still astounds me that he's 9 months younger than Kris Bryant.

 

[soxhop411]

Yeah, the proof that he's gotten a bad rap to me was Cole Hamels hitting him with a pitch for no real reason other than "I'm a vet and you're the cocky rookie", even though Harper had done absolutely nothing to Hamels at that point. I love Harper's attitude, he plays hard, and frankly, maybe all the other Nats hitters run all out to first base because they don't seem to know how to reach any of the other bases.
 
On Harper's age, it still astounds me that he's 9 months younger than Kris Bryant.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/majors/median-age-for-every-full-season-league/

He is also the same age (median) as the average SAL player…. and remember he made is MLB debut at 19!!!

Here are a list of players who debuted as a teenager

http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/list/201206/mlbs-greatest-teenage-debut-seasons#1

 

[SumnerH]

Good gracious, haven't we covered this a million times?  Any time that some asshole decides to turn vigilante because someone "doesn't respect the game", "there's an unwritten rule", "they were showboating", "they haven't earned it", "they needed an attitude adjustment", "they were showing me up", etc, that asshole is wrong.
 
There are times that someone's young and cocky and needs a talking to from a veteran leader, be it a teammate or not.  There are more times when a manager or owner needs to reign a player in.  There's never a time to do that on the field--as soon as you do, you're revealing that you're as immature as you're claiming the other person is.  "Unwritten rule" and "disrespecting the game" are the two biggest code-phrases in the world for "I'm a jerk and want stuff my way".

 

[Sprowl]

Papelbon: what a meathead.

Glad we got his best years, and 2007's flag will always fly, of course. But geez, man.

And he didn't really loaf on the popup that Paps was so mad about. He was at first by the time it was caught. Harper is 22 years old and a superstar and he knows it, which apparently rubs people the wrong way, but he did nothing wrong here.
 
Papelbon's a goddamn idiot. As a younger man it was funny and charming, but now his rampant stupidity has morphed into anger and douchebaggery. His poor wife.

 

[mauidano]

Good gracious, haven't we covered this a million times?  Any time that some asshole decides to turn vigilante because someone "doesn't respect the game", "there's an unwritten rule", "they were showboating", "they haven't earned it", "they needed an attitude adjustment", "they were showing me up", etc, that asshole is wrong.
 
There are times that someone's young and cocky and needs a talking to from a veteran leader, be it a teammate or not.  There are more times when a manager or owner needs to reign a player in.  There's never a time to do that on the field--as soon as you do, you're revealing that you're as immature as you're claiming the other person is.  "Unwritten rule" and "disrespecting the game" are the two biggest code-phrases in the world for "I'm a jerk and want stuff my way".

Boom. This.

 

[NDame616]

When Harper came up he was supposed to be the next best thing from God. His first 3 seasons (age aside) were OK....got hurt a bunch, low .800s OPS, but nothing like he was touted (like I said, age aside...) So, people who had the impression of him being the best baseball player ever, and had a preconceived notion that he was a dick, essentially had the attitude of "who the hell are you?" 
 
This year he blew up to the best, or 2nd best, player in baseball.....at 22

 

[Carroll Hardy]

Note to Papelbon, C.J. Nitkowski, and other keepers of the "Unwritten Rules of Baseball":  How about remembering the most important rule of baseball, written or unwritten?: 
 
Don't Suck. 
 
Enough about "playing the game the right way".  Jesus Christ, there are 300 million fucking people who would love the chance to play the game the right way - but they all suck.  You, Papelbon, have a 98 mph heater that you paint like Picasso and a split that drops like Scott Walker's poll numbers.  You are getting paid $13M, and were contractually given the Closer's position, and then you sucked.
 
So instead of focusing inward on just how badly you sucked in the month of September, you instead go after All-Stars like Manny Machado and Bryce Harper, who are playing the game magnificently.  They play the game the right way:  they do not suck.
 
Just how bad does Papelbon suck?  The average hitter he faced in September 2015 hit him to an OPS (.867) like the careers of David Wright, Carlos Gonzalez, Ryan Howard, and Jose Bautista.  Slugged him (.510) like the career of Troy Tulowitzki, Nelson Cruz, Josh Hamilton, and Chris Davis.
 
Deflect, deflect, deflect.  Not surprised of the keeper of the Unwritten Rules - C.J. Nitkowski.  Former #9 draft pick overall, career 5.37 ERA, traded 4 times, released 8 times.  The only thing consistent about him was his complete, perennial suckitude.  What a fucking bum!!!
 
Oh by the way, the fans in DC who actually see Bryce Harper play on a daily basis are overwhelmingly behind him.  Mostly, they think he plays TOO hard, he takes extra bases, runs into walls, plays his ass off.

 

[YTF]

Honestly Papelbon has nothing to stand on here. Harper may have jogged down the baseline, but it's not like he made a u turn for the dugout half way down the line.  He went all the way to first base and even if that ball was dropped I doubt he gets to second base. I think it just started out as Papelbon busting Harper's balls for Harper's remarks after the Machado incident and not being able to handle Harper dismissing him for the idiot that he is and telling him to go fuck himself. The real folly in all of this is Matt Williams not being "aware" that his dugout had turned to shit all around him and sending Papelbon back out to pitch and subsequently blow the lead and the game.

 

[B H Kim]

I had no problem with what Harper said about Papelbon after the Machado incident.  What Paps did in that game was really unforgivable.  In the 9th inning of a 1 run game, with the Nationals needing to win every game to stay even theoretically in the race with the Mets, Paps threw at Machado's head and gave the Orioles a free baserunner, just because Paps thought that Machado took too long on his go-ahead home run trot.  And I think that Harper said it publicly to try to defuse the situation with the Orioles, and it looks like he was successful, given that there was no attempted retaliation.
 
I have two daughters, one of whom is a big Nationals (and, for some strange reason, Danny Espinosa) fan, and the other of whom barely cares and goes to games mainly for the food and atmosphere.  We were at the game on Sunday, but we actually left just before the fight.  On our way out, we stopped in the team store, where they were having a big end-of-year sale, and I encouraged my non-fan daughter to buy a jersey of her "favorite player."  She picked out a Paps jersey (for some reason they had a ton of them on display), saying she picked it because he used to play for the Red Sox.  I talked her out of it, thank goodness, although it may have become a collectors' item, since they removed all of the Paps jersey from the store before yesterday's game.

 

[glennhoffmania]

I had no problem with what Harper said about Papelbon after the Machado incident.  What Paps did in that game was really unforgivable.  In the 9th inning of a 1 run game, with the Nationals needing to win every game to stay even theoretically in the race with the Mets, Paps threw at Machado's head and gave the Orioles a free baserunner, just because Paps thought that Machado took too long on his go-ahead home run trot.  And I think that Harper said it publicly to try to defuse the situation with the Orioles, and it looks like he was successful, given that there was no attempted retaliation.
 
 

 
Yup, I agree.  And for anyone who thinks that Harper was out of line for commenting on the Machado incident publicly, how about the fact that Papelbon called out Harper in the middle of a game on television even before he decided to choke him?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Paps is under contract for the Nats next year too because they picked up his option as a condition of his trade to Washington. They couldn't move him to another team with 300 pounds of TNT and a crowbar now. He's an asshole and a clubhouse prick and he causes problems and he won't do anything but close. What good is he to a contending team, really?
 
What a maroon.

 

[Pandemonium67]

Papelbon is the kind of all-world closer a team like the Nats could ill afford to lose. They should think about getting rid of Harper before he becomes a cancer -- maybe trade him to a bottom dweller in the AL East.

 

[grimshaw]

I wonder how Papelbon feels about taking the subway in NY and sitting next to some queer with AIDS.

 

[rembrat]

Yup, I agree.  And for anyone who thinks that Harper was out of line for commenting on the Machado incident publicly, how about the fact that Papelbon called out Harper in the middle of a game on television even before he decided to choke him?

 
I mean, Papelbon doesn't do that if Harper doesn't call him out first. I thought that was obvious. 

 

[glennhoffmania]

My obvious point was that if Harper is wrong for what he did then Papelbon is equally guilty, if doing this shit in public is the problem.  But personally I don't think Harper did anything wrong.

 

[rembrat]

Of course they're both at fault and so are the coaches for not getting out in front of it but you're nuts if you think Harper didn't do anything wrong here. 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Harper did nothing wrong. He told a loud-mouthed jackass reliever who got in his face about hustling on a pop-up when he was in fact running it out to fuck right off. Said jackass reliever has played in 62 innings this year (about 1200 fewer than Harper) and had essentially guaranteed Harper to get plunked by stupidly plunking Machado for no good reason. Papelbon then promptly tried to choke the life out of him.
 
This is pretty clear cut. Papelbon is no longer the charming dipshit we liked in Boston. He's an angry 34 year old groin-grabbing douchebag who speaks too much and thinks too little and isn't worth the bother of having on the roster of a team with designs of doing something in the postseason.

 

[Max Power]

Harper was clearly in the wrong when he confronted the gigantic crazy person who was yelling at him. You never, ever come out ahead doing that. He should have just ignored Papelbon and kept walking.

 

[rembrat]

Harper did nothing wrong. He told a loud-mouthed jackass reliever who got in his face about hustling on a pop-up when he was in fact running it out to fuck right off. Said jackass reliever has played in 62 innings this year (about 1200 fewer than Harper) and had essentially guaranteed Harper to get plunked by stupidly plunking Machado for no good reason. Papelbon then promptly tried to choke the life out of him.
 
This is pretty clear cut. Papelbon is no longer the charming dipshit we liked in Boston. He's an angry 34 year old groin-grabbing douchebag who speaks too much and thinks too little and isn't worth the bother of having on the roster of a team with designs of doing something in the postseason.

 
After he boo-hoo'ed to the media that maybe his guy shouldn't have hit their guy and that now I'm probably going to get thrown at. Wah fucking wah.
 
Simply put, I've never seen a guy tell the media that his teammate was wrong for throwing at the opposing team. Please, If I am wrong, which I could be, produce the links, and I'll walk back my sentiments. 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
After he boo-hoo'ed to the media that maybe his guy shouldn't have hit their guy and that now I'm probably going to get thrown at. Wah fucking wah.
 
Simply put, I've never seen a guy tell the media that his teammate was wrong for throwing at the opposing team. Please, If I am wrong, which I could be, produce the links, and I'll walk back my sentiments. 

 
Don't you think Harper has a point? Papelbon getting all douchy with Machado surely meant Harper would get drilled, and like all non-Neaderthals everywhere, Harper thinks that these unwritten rules and whatnot are complete bullshit.
 
The real issue here is that people don't want to treat Harper like a major-leaguer because he's only 22 and because he doesn't hide in idiotic cliches. Well screw that. He's the centerpiece of that team and if he sees something that's not cool from his pitcher he has every right to be pissed off about that.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
After he boo-hoo'ed to the media that maybe his guy shouldn't have hit their guy and that now I'm probably going to get thrown at. Wah fucking wah.
 
Simply put, I've never seen a guy tell the media that his teammate was wrong for throwing at the opposing team. Please, If I am wrong, which I could be, produce the links, and I'll walk back my sentiments. 

"I didn't like it. I don't think it was the right thing to do,'' Ortiz told USA TODAY Sports. "But we don't all think alike, and the guy who did it, Dempster, is a great guy. It's not that I didn't think it was right because Alex and I are friends, because once you cross the white lines, everyone's on their own.
 
"But we've got Tampa right on our heels, and that pitch woke up a monster in the Yankees' team at that moment. You saw how the game ended up. CC (Sabathia) was throwing 91 (mph) and started throwing 96. Alex later hit one way out there. You're talking about a good team that you can't wake up. But we learn from our mistakes.''
 

 
That quote is from Ortiz after Dempster plunked ARod on 8/18/13.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 

[rembrat]

That quote is from Ortiz after Dempster plunked ARod on 8/18/13.

 
Papi's quote gives off a different vibe than Harper's though. Papi, talks about Dempster in glowing terms, then mentions Dempster's mistake in waking up a sleeping giant and Harper's boils down to "Fuck, I'm probably going to get hit now. Wah."

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
Papi's quote gives off a different vibe than Harper's though. Papi, talks about Dempster in glowing terms, then mentions Dempster's mistake in waking up a sleeping giant and Harper's boils down to "Fuck, I'm probably going to get hit now. Wah."

 
Sure, the tone was very different.  That's mostly because Dempster is supposedly a good guy while Papelbon is a douche.  But you asked for an example of a teammate publicly stating that a pitcher was wrong for throwing at a batter.  That was the first incident that came to mind and I don't recall anyone criticizing Ortiz for speaking out.

 

[threecy]

I must be seeing a different video.

I see Harper walking after he makes contact, then jogging down the line.  No camera angles showing if shouting from the dugout caused him to start jogging.

I see Harper and Papelbon going at it in the dugout, then I see Papelbon initially grab him by the neck, then quickly start grabbing Harper's jersey as he gets in his face.

By reading some of these posts, one would think Harper ran it out, then was choked.

And no, I'm not defending Papelbon, nor do I think the Red Sox should make a deal to take on him and his $11M salary.

 

[Average Reds]

I said this in the other thread and will repeat it here.
 
I can understand why Papelbon was pissed at Harper throwing him under the bus to the media.  But Papelbon handled it in the worst way possible and he really has no defense.

 

[rembrat]

 
Don't you think Harper has a point? Papelbon getting all douchy with Machado surely meant Harper would get drilled, and like all non-Neaderthals everywhere, Harper thinks that these unwritten rules and whatnot are complete bullshit.
 
The real issue here is that people don't want to treat Harper like a major-leaguer because he's only 22 and because he doesn't hide in idiotic cliches. Well screw that. He's the centerpiece of that team and if he sees something that's not cool from his pitcher he has every right to be pissed off about that.

 
I think he went about expressing his point very poorly and without tact.
 
And to the bolded... God, who cares? Is he going to die? It's part of the game. Fuck sometimes I wonder if you all are the same people that watched Pedro pitch in Boston for 7 years. 

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

 
I think he went about expressing his point very poorly and without tact.
 
And to the bolded... God, who cares? Is he going to die? It's part of the game. Fuck sometimes I wonder if you all are the same people that watched Pedro pitch in Boston for 7 years. 

 
You don't think a player should be pissed off because his idiot teammate did something stupid which will result in him getting a 95 MPH fastball to the back? When it had nothing to do with him?
 
This is 2015. People are becoming more aware that this type of bullshit is bad for baseball.