Papi came into the season with 466, now he's at 489. Can Papi reach 500 homers by the end of the year?
At Comerica Park, facing a Tigers team he's done significant damage to over the years, David Ortiz stepped to the plate for the 425th time this year for the Red Sox. The designated hitter's 2016 option vested with Saturday night's first plate appearance, guaranteeing him $11 million next season, provided Ortiz passes his offseason physical.
Gawd I hope not, he's our best hitter.Seels said:I think if he does he retires at years end.
Seels said:I think if he does he retires at years end.
And remember, that 11 million keeps going up with every 25 at bats until it reaches $16 million at 550. Everyone who thinks Ortiz might retire should read the above quote from him to Edea. Not happening. We shouldn't see any more of that speculation in any future thread. When writing down 2016 possibilities start with Ortiz at DH everyday. Because, since the break, he's been hitting lefties just fine as well.jscola85 said:I just don't see Ortiz walking away from that much coin when he's still clearly capable of hitting at an above average level. If the money weren't there, or he was fading hard, I could see it, but neither is the case. Over the 28 days he's got an OPS of 1.053 - the man is something of a machine.
Same, hope he hits #500 on opening day at Fenway.Buzzkill Pauley said:I'd hope he hits #500 early next year, when hopefully there's less miasma around the team.
April would be nice, when anything's still possible for the season.
Instead of worrying about "500!" they're tracking where he is on the all-time HR list. I'm pretty sure that gets mentioned every time he hits a HR.JMDurron said:I haven't been watching as many games as usual this season, but from watching highlights and the games that I do manage to catch, it seems like the NESN broadcasts aren't saying anything about how close Ortiz is to 500 HRs. Are they actually mentioning it elsewhere in the broadcasts and I've just missed it, or does it strike anyone else as odd that NESN's ignoring this potential marketing angle to get people watch "Big Papi's March to 500", or something similar?
Is there any particular reason he'd just want to pass Ted Williams?VTSox said:521 (or 522) seems pretty reachable with 1 more season
Rasputin said:Is there any particular reason he'd just want to pass Ted Williams?
If he wants to top the Red Sox list, he'd need to hit 90 more which I think I'd possible, but a pretty long shot.
Savin Hillbilly said:
Unless I'm missing something, the most HR by any player who ever donned a Sox uniform is Manny's 555. Ortiz needs 66 more to catch that--still highly unlikely, but slightly less implausible than 90.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
You're missing something. Ras is referring to the most HR in a Red Sox uniform, not by someone who happened to wear a Sox cap for a few of them. That record is Ted's 521, but Ortiz only has 431 as a Red Sox.
I seem to recall some guy named Ruth who may have hit a few more!Savin Hillbilly said:
Unless I'm missing something, the most HR by any player who ever donned a Sox uniform is Manny's 555.
But only around 50 with the Sox.GeorgeThomas said:I seem to recall some guy named Ruth who may have hit a few more!
Red(s)HawksFan said:
You're missing something. Ras is referring to the most HR in a Red Sox uniform, not by someone who happened to wear a Sox cap for a few of them. That record is Ted's 521, but Ortiz only has 431 as a Red Sox.
glasspusher said:Man, I love a good thread with statistics like these. Trying to recall the leaders in the "slugging begins at 40" club. I know Ted and Hank Aaron are up there.
Yeah, but I think Carleton Fisk's second-place finish is more impressive.Danny_Darwin said:
The record holder for most home runs after age 40 is someone fairly well known around these parts.
Did he play until age 65?iayork said:Yeah, but I think Carleton Fisk's second-place finish is more impressive.
Trivia of the day: 20 of the top 25 "home runs hit by oldest player" are Julio Franco.
scotian1 said:Hitting them at the rate he has been lately, I believe, will be difficult to maintain. He will likely fall a few short but even if he does reach the 500 mark I can't se him wanting to retire after such a dismal team performance. I bet he would still like to become the only Red Sox to have 4 WS Championships.
JimD said:I think some credit and appreciation is due to both sides for structuring this contract is a manner that is beneficial to all. As a Red Sox fan, I'm thrilled that Ortiz has been healthy and productive enough to earn his 2016 contract. Had he been banged up and didn't hit the vesting option then I could have seen him opting to retire, but he's earned this and I look forward to him being a key part of the offense next year and building his HoF case.
Likewise, for 2017 it will depend on his health. It's a strict team option, of course, but the incentives will work the same if and when he hits the various PA milestones. If 2016 is one year too many and he doesn't make it past 425 plate appearances then I expect he'd likely opt to retire rather than play for $10 million, but if he still is outrunning Father Time a year from now I think the front office will have an interesting dilemma on their hands.
Bottom line for me is, David Ortiz is continuing to earn his playing time and should not be pushed out the door to solve the Pablo/Hanley conundrum.
Yes, but what relevance does this have? Nobody's proposing replacing Ortiz' offense with Hanley's offense. Hanley's offense is a given. The tradeoffs, in any "Ortiz retires, Hanley to DH" scenario, are:smastroyin said:I'm not sure what to do with Hanley Ramirez right now either, but making the team worse to fit him in (arguments that he might flourish as a DH I guess can be made, but right now his OPS is 748, and I'll go ahead and add that Ortiz's wOBA/wRC+ is now .349/120 to Hanley's .322/101)
Indeed they might, but however implausible Ortiz retiring might be, this is even more so.Basic point is, even accounting for age difference, the Red Sox may be better off in 2016 outright releasing Hanley as opposed to doing it to David Ortiz. Not that they should do either, and years after 2016 count too. Just that I'm tired of hearing the Sox need to get rid of Ortiz so that they can get Hanley out of the field.
Savin Hillbilly said:[snip]...
*This assumes for the sake of simplicity that if Hanley stays in LF JBJ is a 4th OF making spot starts and defensive replacements, while Rusney is the full-time RF. But the basic point stands if you posit a more complicated PT picture: basically you're replacing Hanley with a much better OF, and Ortiz with a much worse hitter, for most of the team's games.
...[snip].
The statement was there specifically to deal with your argument. The best thing for The red Sox is probably Ortiz plus a guy playing defense in Hanleys place. Sorry I shorthanded the argument.Savin Hillbilly said:Yes, but what relevance does this have? Nobody's proposing replacing Ortiz' offense with Hanley's offense. Hanley's offense is a given. The tradeoffs, in any "Ortiz retires, Hanley to DH" scenario, are:
1. Ortiz's offense for JBJ's offense*;
2. Hanley's defense for JBJ's defense.
The question is, how implausible is it that the second gap might turn out to be larger than the first? I'm not sure I know the answer to that question, but I'm pretty sure it's not as cut-and-dried as some of you are making it sound.
*This assumes for the sake of simplicity that if Hanley stays in LF JBJ is a 4th OF making spot starts and defensive replacements, while Rusney is the full-time RF. But the basic point stands if you posit a more complicated PT picture: basically you're replacing Hanley with a much better OF, and Ortiz with a much worse hitter, for most of the team's games.
Indeed they might, but however implausible Ortiz retiring might be, this is even more so.
Pumpsie said:The first step to solving the Ortiz/Hanley problem is to get rid of the moron who created it out of thin air in the first place...Mr. Ben Cherington.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
There is no Ortiz/Hanley problem. There is a Hanley Ramirez is a poor defensive left fielder problem. And part (most?) of the blame for that ought to be on the shoulders of the guy who proposed the idea in the first place: Hanley Ramirez. He volunteered to change positions specifically so that he could come to Boston to play with David Ortiz (not replace him). So let's not pretend Cherington pulled the idea out of thin air just as an excuse to sign Ramirez.
smastroyin said:The problem is Hanley and people are blaming Ortiz for the problem.
smastroyin said:I don't know, read back in threads when he was quoted not being able to play a ton more 1B or his annual contract thread for the year.
Optimizing wins with the current roster in 2016 means sending an OF coach to spend the off season with Hanley, have him take 75% of the LHH DH duties and finding another 300 or so PA in the field. Or it means ditching Sandoval and hoping Hanley can still play IF or it means changing his mind on 1B.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
There is no Ortiz/Hanley problem. There is a Hanley Ramirez is a poor defensive left fielder problem. And part (most?) of the blame for that ought to be on the shoulders of the guy who proposed the idea in the first place: Hanley Ramirez. He volunteered to change positions specifically so that he could come to Boston to play with David Ortiz (not replace him). So let's not pretend Cherington pulled the idea out of thin air just as an excuse to sign Ramirez.
"Of course he is going to be open to the idea" is nonsense. Derek Jeter never was. A bunch of other ballplayers weren't.The X Man Cometh said:
My problem with this statement is this - Hanley Ramirez didn't volunteer to change positions. He volunteered to chance positions and receive $88 million guaranteed plus a vesting option. Of course he is going to be open to the idea. It is the team's responsibility to look out for their interest in the transaction.
He's already taken hundreds of flyballs. He did that in spring training. The guy is not on outfielder, he's an infielder and has always been one. He and the Red Sox thought he could learn to track flyballs, but he can't. They tried, but it's not working. It's time to put him back in the infield where he had always played before this year.Rasputin said:
We've already seen an infielder converted to an outfielder make giganttic strides in outfield defense from one season to another. Further, Hanley's poor performance doesn't look like it stems from a lack of range or mobility, but a lack of ball tracking skills and a low level of comfort with walls. Build him a back yard Fenway and have him take a couple hundred fly balls a day and I think he'll be drastically improved.
I'm going out on a limb and suggesting there's zero chance this happens.The Gray Eagle said:He's already taken hundreds of flyballs. He did that in spring training. The guy is not on outfielder, he's an infielder and has always been one. He and the Red Sox thought he could learn to track flyballs, but he can't. They tried, but it's not working. It's time to put him back in the infield where he had always played before this year.
Next year he can poorly cover first, third, and maybe a dozen games in left when other guys are hurt. And DH against a lot of lefties. You should expect about 120-130 games a year from him max as he moves into his 30's, so 60 at first, 20 at third, 12 in left, 40 at DH is pretty much a full season for him most years. Expect him to be lousy in the field, but not as lousy as he has been in LF this year. If he could be passable enough to play 60 games at first base next year, and hits anywhere near his career numbers, that would be a very solid player who would actually fit well with the rest of the roster.
Doooweeeey! said:Hopefully, David Ortiz hits #490 and turns this conversation around.
Edit: Interesting tidbit from B-Ref:
Two of Papi's four home runs against the Red Sox (as a member of the Twins) came against Ramon and Pedro Martinez.
Rich Garces and Tim Young allowed the other two in the same game.