Offseason rumors

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SouthernBoSox

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I actually think The Yankees getting Soto might push the Red Sox to even more aggressively up their allocation on Yamamoto.

They have to get a foundational player player this offseason
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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The Yanks could add Soto by trade and then sign Yamamoto pretty easily. That would be a problem.
Yeah, I don't think that Soto blocks the Yankees from signing Yamamoto, if they are willing to pay for Yamamoto. Paying for Yamamoto, though, does give the Yankees less to work with when it comes time to try to retain Soto, if that's what they want to do.

I'm fine with the Yankees getting Soto. If they give up prospects for a one-year rental, I don't care. Yes, it makes the division tougher this year, but at the cost of them losing assets for a rental that they are still going to have to pay a lot of money for in his rental year. If the Yankees want to pay prospects plus $35 million this year for a 5 or 6 win Boras player primed to break the non-Ohtani free agency record next year, just to have an exclusive period to negotiate with him, I'm fine with that and I hope the Red Sox don't do it.
 

LogansDad

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Puffy

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Wouldn’t Bader be a better route to take if they just want CF defense coupled with iffy hitting? Younger, far fewer strikeouts.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Isn't Michael A Taylor the baseline that people expect out of Rafaela?
There is a chance Rafaela is a significantly worse hitter than Taylor.

I keep saying this until I am blue in the face, but people with Rafaela's profile simply do not exist at the major league level. As in, there is literally no comp.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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There is a chance Rafaela is a significantly worse hitter than Taylor.

I keep saying this until I am blue in the face, but people with Rafaela's profile simply do not exist at the major league level. As in, there is literally no comp.
To be clear, I'm not sold on Rafaela as a major league player. A lot of folks around here seem to be though and signing Taylor would appear to block Rafaela, at least for 2024.
 

chawson

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Always liked Taylor and he’d seem like a perfect complement to Duran and Abreu. Obviously prefer Gurriel if it’s a starting job but Taylor’s an ideal OF4 and has some pretty good pull loft in his swing.

If Breslow follows through with trading some high-ranked prospects this winter, Rafaela is probably my first choice to go.
 

Auger34

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The author of that Athletic piece must be kind of an idiot. The Red Sox have been identified as a team in on Yamamoto by literally everyone. There’s no “mystery” there
 

Quatchie

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Feels like some trades are coming but unlikely to be for top tier players. The Sox seem to done playing at the top of the FA market as well. Sign me up for non sexy baseball if they win, but if they don't -yuck.
 

simplicio

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Feels like some trades are coming but unlikely to be for top tier players. The Sox seem to done playing at the top of the FA market as well. Sign me up for non sexy baseball if they win, but if they don't -yuck.
Cool now try again but this time with evidence to back up your feelings.
 

moondog80

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.258 OBP last year, but he’s only 37. Elite defensively, I presume? Ugh
Eh, someone has to be the second catcher. It's not like Reese McGuire was Mike Piazza, if the cost is small and they decide Maldonado's offensive shortcomings are made up for by his catching, who am I to argue?
 

Mr. Stinky Esq.

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Far too much Taylor and Maldonado on here. Old players who can’t hit doesn’t sound like a new market inefficiency we should exploit. We’re going to need a bigger rumor.
 

grepal

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Yeah, I don't think that Soto blocks the Yankees from signing Yamamoto, if they are willing to pay for Yamamoto. Paying for Yamamoto, though, does give the Yankees less to work with when it comes time to try to retain Soto, if that's what they want to do.

I'm fine with the Yankees getting Soto. If they give up prospects for a one-year rental, I don't care. Yes, it makes the division tougher this year, but at the cost of them losing assets for a rental that they are still going to have to pay a lot of money for in his rental year. If the Yankees want to pay prospects plus $35 million this year for a 5 or 6 win Boras player primed to break the non-Ohtani free agency record next year, just to have an exclusive period to negotiate with him, I'm fine with that and I hope the Red Sox don't do it.
One of Yamamotos conditions is he wants to play for a winner. These Sox are not that. Sox needed or need to add a couple studs before they try and sign him. Sure, money talks, however winning solves a lot of problems. And the Sox have a ton of players. It will be interesting to hear how Kennedy and Henry spin this if they lose the off season while the Yankees win it. Second place this off season will equal yet another basement season. I have not renewed my tax and won't if they don't break the bank and make this team a winner on paper.
 

jbupstate

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One of Yamamotos conditions is he wants to play for a winner. These Sox are not that. Sox needed or need to add a couple studs before they try and sign him. Sure, money talks, however winning solves a lot of problems. And the Sox have a ton of players. It will be interesting to hear how Kennedy and Henry spin this if they lose the off season while the Yankees win it. Second place this off season will equal yet another basement season. I have not renewed my tax and won't if they don't break the bank and make this team a winner on paper.
The New York Mets won the offseason last year. Just saying.
 

grepal

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The New York Mets won the offseason last year. Just saying.
Yeah, but at least they tried to win. We got another year of excuses and predictable results. For what we pay for tickets the Sox should be embarrassed. I know winning can't be guaranteed by off season acquisitions. I know losing can be by not improving. Especially when coming off yet another dismal year.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah, but at least they tried to win. We got another year of excuses and predictable results. For what we pay for tickets the Sox should be embarrassed. I know winning can't be guaranteed by off season acquisitions. I know losing can be by not improving. Especially when coming off yet another dismal year.
You have an awful lot of posts that say basically the exact same thing. This is not a rumor or really a response to a rumor. It's another post in a succession of posts that says "the Sox should spend a ton of money/set the market/etc." We get the point buddy.
 

BornToRun

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Yeah, but at least they tried to win. We got another year of excuses and predictable results. For what we pay for tickets the Sox should be embarrassed. I know winning can't be guaranteed by off season acquisitions. I know losing can be by not improving. Especially when coming off yet another dismal year.
I’d say we tried to win too. Teams that don’t give a shit don’t spend money on a closer. It just didn’t work out and the architect got the axe after failing to build on a strong 2021. There’s zero reason to be so down on this off-season because literally nothing has happened yet. Like, anywhere. The biggest move was Jarred Kelenic getting traded, seeing as how the Soto thing is still wrapping up and in kind of limbo at the moment. No big trades, no big ticket signings, all of the big fish are still out there. It’s unfair to lambast inactivity when there hasn’t been any activity to compare it to.
 

kazuneko

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Far too much Taylor and Maldonado on here. Old players who can’t hit doesn’t sound like a new market inefficiency we should exploit. We’re going to need a bigger rumor.
Fair enough though Taylor might be interesting depending on cost. He’s never been a great hitter but he’s a career .744 OPS against LHP and put up a .914 OPS against them last year. He remains elite in center. A player of that profile could be useful on this team if he’s not too expensive.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Off-season is young. The Sox only had 14 players worth more than 1 fWAR last year. They’ve dumped Verdugo (2.0 fWAR), while Duvall (1.9), Turner (1.2), and Paxton (1.0) all seem unlikely to return. I guess it would be good to know what the realistic expectations are for this team for next year, from the FO. Barring a massive spending spree, it seems likely that the Sox won’t be great next year, right? Adding players like Maldonado and Taylor, as rumored, seems unlikely to help.
 

JM3

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If you believe fWAR, Maldonado was a -1.3 player & not nearly as good as McGuire who put up 0.3.

On the other hand, bWAR had Maldonado at 0.2 & McGuire at -0.3. If someone places a positive value on McGuire at his estimated arb contract of $1.7m, & you could bring in Maldonado for the same or less, & he could mentor Wong & maybe Teel, it wouldn't be an exciting move, but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

Breslow specifically said today that catching isn't a priority, just something they are monitoring, so my guess is they're waiting it out to see if they can get Maldonado on an MiLB deal with a Spring Training invite (like Iglesias just got from the Mets), but who knows?
 

Yelling At Clouds

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Eh, someone has to be the second catcher. It's not like Reese McGuire was Mike Piazza, if the cost is small and they decide Maldonado's offensive shortcomings are made up for by his catching, who am I to argue?
He was the starting catcher for some very successful Houston teams, and wasn't part of the deal that he was really good at handling their pitching staff? I don't think it needs to be a priority or anything, but I can't say I'd hate it.
 

ehaz

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One of Yamamotos conditions is he wants to play for a winner. These Sox are not that. Sox needed or need to add a couple studs before they try and sign him. Sure, money talks, however winning solves a lot of problems. And the Sox have a ton of players. It will be interesting to hear how Kennedy and Henry spin this if they lose the off season while the Yankees win it. Second place this off season will equal yet another basement season. I have not renewed my tax and won't if they don't break the bank and make this team a winner on paper.
He's going to sign a 10-year contract. What have the Mets and Yankees won over the last 10 years? I don't think someone in his position is going to be that short sighted.

All players have geographic preferences at the margins. Maybe NPB guys even moreso with the West Coast. But if the Sox don't sign Yamamoto, reason number 1 will almost certainly be that someone else offered him more money.
 

BornToRun

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If you believe fWAR, Maldonado was a -1.3 player & not nearly as good as McGuire who put up 0.3.

On the other hand, bWAR had Maldonado at 0.2 & McGuire at -0.3. If someone places a positive value on McGuire at his estimated arb contract of $1.7m, & you could bring in Maldonado for the same or less, & he could mentor Wong & maybe Teel, it wouldn't be an exciting move, but it wouldn't be the end of the world either.

Breslow specifically said today that catching isn't a priority, just something they are monitoring, so my guess is they're waiting it out to see if they can get Maldonado on an MiLB deal with a Spring Training invite (like Iglesias just got from the Mets), but who knows?
Yeah I think catcher is a position where we’re actually in pretty decent shape. Wong is excellent defensively and has hit just well enough to allow his glove to provide positive value and McGuire is fine as a backup. Both are cheap and under control so I see no reason to fret too hard about that situation while we see how Teel develops.
 

kazuneko

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This is a horribly uninspiring tweet.
Sounds like the Sox might be still considering signing another DH to a team full of them and for some reason can’t admit to pursuing the player that everyone agrees should be their biggest free agent priority. The good news is that they are really excited about grabbing a guy who probably would have been lost in the rule 5 draft of the team they got him from and they might be interested in Michael Taylor.
Meanwhile the Yanks have acquired Soto and Verdugo and are still shooting for Yamamoto :(
 

grepal

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This is a horribly uninspiring tweet.
Sounds like the Sox might be still considering signing another DH to a team full of them and for some reason can’t admit to pursuing the player that everyone agrees should be their biggest free agent priority. The good news is that they are really excited about grabbing a guy who probably would have been lost in the rule 5 draft of the team they got him from and they might be interested in Michael Taylor.
Meanwhile the Yanks have acquired Soto and Verdugo and are still shooting for Yamamoto :(
So if we want to finish last again when will tickets cost a price commensurate with the results. If we compete for the bottom we should be priced there. As I stated before the Sox need to set the market for fa pitching not settle by overpaying for the last guy left like we did with Story. Sox need two high end starters including a very legit ace and at least one impact 40 Homer bat with a high OBP like Soto. Oh that's right we let the Yanks get him for four ponies and a blanket. Of coursexwe let our right fielder go to the Yanks for a hope and a prayer. So we get worse, they get better, and our future has not been this bleak since the early 1960's. Of course I could go to games then for about 4 dollars so I didn't feel ripped off.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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So if we want to finish last again when will tickets cost a price commensurate with the results. If we compete for the bottom we should be priced there. As I stated before the Sox need to set the market for fa pitching not settle by overpaying for the last guy left like we did with Story. Sox need two high end starters including a very legit ace and at least one impact 40 Homer bat with a high OBP like Soto. Oh that's right we let the Yanks get him for four ponies and a blanket. Of coursexwe let our right fielder go to the Yanks for a hope and a prayer. So we get worse, they get better, and our future has not been this bleak since the early 1960's. Of course I could go to games then for about 4 dollars so I didn't feel ripped off.
Is it Opening Day already? Geez, the whole off-season just flew by. I feel like I blinked and missed it. Who signed Yamamoto? Ohtani? Montgomery? Snell? Did anyone trade for Burnes? Cease? Glasnow? The Sox really did nothing at all?

Wait, it's only December 7? Phew. There's still time and there are still really really REALLY good players available. Let's step back from the ledge a bit.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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I mean I get it, it sucks that Soto went to the Yanks, but, as pointed out above there are still plenty of big name players out there and available.

Now, if Lourdes Gurriel is our big get, then yeah …
 

moondog80

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Lourdes Gurriel's has a good arm but his range has graded as bad up until this year. It's possible he has improved, but one year statistical outlier seems more likely. I'm not sure he's an upgrade from Verdugo, other than being a righty. He has zero innings at RF or CF. Where would he fit it? Is Yoshida DHing?
 

jbupstate

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I mean I get it, it sucks that Soto went to the Yanks, but, as pointed out above there are still plenty of big name players out there and available.

Now, if Lourdes Gurriel is our big get, then yeah …
This offseason is going to show why you need to build up and develop assets in the minors. The Yankees grab Soto because they had very good young, cheap players to trade. Having deep pockets or offering an overpay doesn’t guarantee you a high price FA like Yamamoto or Ohtani.

Of course we don’t like the Yankees getting better but the problem is also the Orioles and Blue Jay already being better and having great farms. “Winning” this offseason by adding Yamamoto and Ohtani or overpaying in trade for Cease will not guarantee a playoff spot this season.

Expectations to contend in 2024 seem unrealistic with the teams ahead in the division.
 

kazuneko

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Lourdes Gurriel's has a good arm but his range has graded as bad up until this year. It's possible he has improved, but one year statistical outlier seems more likely. I'm not sure he's an upgrade from Verdugo, other than being a righty. He has zero innings at RF or CF. Where would he fit it? Is Yoshida DHing?
He’d presumably be in LF with Yoshida DHing. Can’t imagine the Sox would consider placing a guy who has never played in the OF except for LF and is -20 OAA for his career there in Fenway’s RF.
Unfortunately, that would probably mean Duran would remain in CF, with Rafaela presumably moving to center. That’s why they are apparently also considering Michael Taylor. Unlike Gurriel, he has an excellent glove and would be a huge defensive upgrade over Duran in CF. Duran could then move to LF.
Honestly, as uninspiring as a Michael Taylor signing might be it’s probably a far better move than signing Gurriel. He’ll be far cheaper, still rakes against LH pitching and would improve the defense to the point that he’d probably end up more valuable for this team than the far more expensive Gurriel..
 
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cantor44

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This offseason is going to show why you need to build up and develop assets in the minors. The Yankees grab Soto because they had very good young, cheap players to trade. Having deep pockets or offering an overpay doesn’t guarantee you a high price FA like Yamamoto or Ohtani.
What a second. The Sox farm system, prior to the Yankees Soto deal was ranked in the top 5, even the top 3 depending on whose ranking. The Yankees farm was ranked middle of the pack. The Red Sox DO have good young cheap players to trade.

I'm feeling reactive to the Soto deal and the whisperings Yanks get Yamamoto, too, but here goes:

The Sox seem to be in a kind of paralysis about making big deals. Just back on their heals and can't get in the game. Veeeeeerrrry early with Breslow, but so far more munching around the edges (this time with a focus on pitching only) just like Bloom. Just seems more of the same, and now I wonder if those folks who said Bloom was being scapegoated were right. The ORGANIZATIONAL approach don't no feel all that much different to me so far ....

The Sox obviously need 2 top line starting pitchers. And they need another big bat (ideally a RHH), and need to shore D with second base being an obvious place to do that. And if they team addressed all those things I think they would be able to contend in 2024. And addressing all those things in a single off season IS doable. Acquiring four players? I mean, look what St. Louis just did in short order.

And if a couple players have to be overpaid, for a couple years too long, so be it. It's a rich organization with a good farm now - they can afford it.

It seems there is so much tut-tutting about what is realistic. But that framing is really new. That is post 2019 Red Sox framing. For quite a while the Sox pursued and got the top players in the game. They don't anymore. What gives? There is a deep cultural love of baseball in the region and a ballpark that is the most expensive to attend in the country. If ownership no longer wants to get the Mannys/Pedros/Schillings/Becketts ...damn, even the Sales (at the time they got him) ...well, then, fuck them, that sucks, its not acceptable.

Buuuuuuut .....there are still a lot of good arms out there. So, let's hope.
 

BringBackMo

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Off-season is young. The Sox only had 14 players worth more than 1 fWAR last year. They’ve dumped Verdugo (2.0 fWAR), while Duvall (1.9), Turner (1.2), and Paxton (1.0) all seem unlikely to return. I guess it would be good to know what the realistic expectations are for this team for next year, from the FO. Barring a massive spending spree, it seems likely that the Sox won’t be great next year, right? Adding players like Maldonado and Taylor, as rumored, seems unlikely to help.
Regular reminder that the Red Sox are rumored to be linked to every free agent in every offseason. Player agents risk decertification if they fail to whisper to reporters that the Sox are in on their clients.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Regular reminder that the Red Sox are rumored to be linked to every free agent in every offseason. Player agents risk decertification if they fail to whisper to reporters that the Sox are in on their clients.
Fair point. And I guess complaining about players who haven’t been signed yet is a waste of time. Waiting out the market is generally a good idea but hard to watch as a fan!
 
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