NFC Championship: 49ers at Seahawks
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Snodgrass'Muff said:
I think he's a great football player. I respect what he's accomplished coming from his neighborhood, and respect the fact that he graduated from Stanford. But so do 90% of the members of the football team. His high school is one of the worst in the State of California, and the country. He got a 990 on his SAT. I think it's possible for him to be a great football player and a bright guy without having to buy into the "he's a genius" narrative.
Also, FWIW ... the officiating in this game stunk. The officials blew at least five key calls in Seattle's favor: the personal foul headshot penalty on Whitner (clear shoulder to shoulder), the unnecessary roughness on Rodgers, the lack of a personal foul on the roughing the punter, the missed first intentional grounding (borderline, but it looked to me like Wilson was inside the tackle box + the ball did not get back to the LOS), and the call on Bowman's fumble recovery. There were also a curious holding call on a fair catch punt return, which you rarely see, but I don't think Fox ever showed a replay of that, so they could have got that one right. There were some odd calls that went the other way (a phantom holding call on Seattle's O-line in the first quarter that I couldn't spot on the replay), but on balance the calls went Seattle's way, which in a close field position game made a big difference. It wasn't the only reason Seattle won (the inability of SF's secondary to prevent big plays downfield has been an ongoing problem in the playoffs for the last two years, and the fourth quarter turnovers obviously hurt), but it was clearly a factor. I don't think Seattle scores that 4th-and-7 TD if they don't have great field position set up by the missed roughing the punter call, for example.
The frustrating thing is that if they play this game at the Stick, several of those calls go the other way and SF probably wins. And the reason Seattle had home field advantage goes back to ... the ridiculous roughing the passer call on Ahmad Brooks in New Orleans.
Despite the 4Q turnovers, I was extremely impressed by Kaepernick in this game. This was his first full season as a starting QB. He'll get better at the reads and progression stuff with more experience, nobody comes into the league and excels at that stuff right away. But his physical ability is so off the charts that if he ever puts it all together, wow, watch out. That throw for the Boldin TD was one of the more incredible throws I have ever seen. There were some growing pains, but he made progress this year and he'll continue to improve.
The frustrating thing is that if they play this game at the Stick, several of those calls go the other way and SF probably wins. And the reason Seattle had home field advantage goes back to ... the ridiculous roughing the passer call on Ahmad Brooks in New Orleans.
Despite the 4Q turnovers, I was extremely impressed by Kaepernick in this game. This was his first full season as a starting QB. He'll get better at the reads and progression stuff with more experience, nobody comes into the league and excels at that stuff right away. But his physical ability is so off the charts that if he ever puts it all together, wow, watch out. That throw for the Boldin TD was one of the more incredible throws I have ever seen. There were some growing pains, but he made progress this year and he'll continue to improve.
WayBackVazquez said:
Well, for one: Wonderlic scores aren't public. Or, they're not supposed to be. There's no way to verify Sherman's score. The broad jump was public though!
Pretty easy answer, I think. Just admit you have an axe to grind.
WayBackVazquez said:
I don't think he is a genius and, like you, I think he is a bright guy but the above doesn't accomplish what you have set out to.
CaptainLaddie said:
Wait, he's NOT a loudmouth? You see, that is pretty much undisputed. So it's you who has no credibility in this conversation.
Sherman responds to his critics:
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/20/richard-sherman-interview-michael-crabtree/
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/01/20/richard-sherman-interview-michael-crabtree/
WayBackVazquez said:
Do you need this ball placed on the T for you? That's your second swing and a miss.
WayBackVazquez said:
Me neither. We could ask OFT but I have a feeling that won't result in a honked hooter for you either.
mabrowndog said:
I'm surprised that anyone suggested that this was the case. She was even nodding at his responses. She knew what she was doing, like Jim Gray did when he trolled Pete Rose. Not to compare Erin Andrews to that smarmy prick, but it's the general idea. The sideline reporters aren't as dumb as the producers want them to be.
Dogman2 said:
Not sure what a honked hooter is either, but I don't think OFT is Sherman's biggest fan.
WayBackVazquez said:
Graduating second in your class, no matter how poorly your school rates on a state or national level, is hard and takes an impressive level of intelligence and hard work. Discounting his entire school is harsh. Very harsh. And dangerously close to classist.
And the scout.com page with his SAT score also lists a 1060 on a retake. Why not include that in your mention of it? Never mind that the SAT's may have a greater correlation with family income than intelligence. Citing his SAT score as part of a discussion about his intelligence isn't really adding any information, as they and IQ tests have some serious flaws. I don't think there's any real evidence that he's not a very bright young man and very much in control of the narrative about him that's floating around right now.
Harbaugh press conference scheduled in 10 minutes, unless he ducks out. But, I think his bosses are pretty serious about him participating.
The 4th and 7 TD was set up by a free play given up by the 9ers D. No way does Wilson make that throw otherwise. Then they gave up a huge return that set a FG, then another FG set up by the INT.
Kaepernick needs to improve a lot, but he also needs to have a full season with a good set of receivers. And with all of that, he could have won the game if he throws the ball away/throws to another receiver on that 1st down and gets at least two more shots at the endzone with Davis-Crabtree-Boldin at his disposal.
Now it's wait for mext year again, but the NFC West has turned into one of the toughest divisions in the NFL so.....
Kaepernick needs to improve a lot, but he also needs to have a full season with a good set of receivers. And with all of that, he could have won the game if he throws the ball away/throws to another receiver on that 1st down and gets at least two more shots at the endzone with Davis-Crabtree-Boldin at his disposal.
Now it's wait for mext year again, but the NFC West has turned into one of the toughest divisions in the NFL so.....
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Well, I think I already said he seems like a bright guy. If you're going to use the fact that he graduated 2nd in his class as though it would translate to as much at another school that didn't consistently rank among the poorest performing in the state, then you may as well treat SAT scores as "fair" as well. Or we could just drop trying to use his degree or high school gpa as an indicator of his intelligence, and judge him by his words and behavior.
And okay, he got a 1060 on his SAT retake. The average for the Stanford football team is 1176.
WayBackVazquez said:
Okay, so you don't disagree with the thread... but you disagree with the thread anyway?
I don't recall anyone in this thread calling him a genius. People have just pointed out that he's a smart guy and that there's a pretty good chance that his "villain" persona is at least partly a calculated move. If you don't disagree with that, then what are you arguing against?
trekfan55 said:
No outcome would really surprise me with the 49ers next year. They have a bunch of 2013 draftees who didn't see much or any of the field this year that could make an impact (Lattimore, Carradine, Patton most notably) as well as a ton of 2014 draft picks. If they hit on some of those players, that's a huge boost to an already elite team. They also have a bunch of key players that will be entering or already in their 30s like J. Smith, Davis, Staley, Boldin, Gore, Brooks, McDonald so its hard to predict what level those guys will be playing at. If things don't work out well, though, they may be in a little bit of trouble going forward, as they are tight against the cap already and will have a star studded list of 2015 FAs, including Kaepernick, Aldon Smith, Crabtree, and Iupati. If I had to guess, my prediction would be that they'll be a top 3-4 team again next year but that they drop back somewhat in 2015 when their core is that much older and the salary cap crunch really starts to hit (having to pay Kaep somewhere in the $12M+ AAV range instead of chump change will really hurt in that respect).
Sort of covered it in subsequent posts, but yeah it a hastily written rant, and if I was being more clear, I would have added the qualifier that I was referring more to sportsmanship at the end of a game. Even in that case, off the top of my head I can think of Dale Hunter (for the Pierre Turgeon incident) that has Sherman beat easily. I expected some blowback from the comment, but left it as is.DrewDawg said:
I will say that if I could chat with a current NFL player, Sherman might be the pick. I mostly get a kick out of his antics, and I was happy to see San Fran lose. Immediately trying to rub as much salt in the wound as you can to an opposing player after a devastating loss though just doesn't do it for me. He has all summer for bragging rights over Crabtree, never mind the post game press conferences. He didn't need to be an ass right there.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Well, is it my fault I take him at his word?
I think it's fair to judge him for what he does between the lines (mostly great, sometimes dirty), as well as what he does off the field, and I think off the field includes the interviews with Andrews and Skip Bayless. I didn't think the interview with Erin was a big deal, but I thought the Bayless interview was embarassing.
Where in this thread did anyone refer to Sherman as a genius? Someone accused him of saying something gang-related (later they retracted it). Others referred to his actions as the most "classless" thing they have ever seen in sports. And still others accused him of being on a drug-fueled rant. I can't find the genius comment though.
It was pretty obvious he knew exactly what he was doing when he went after Brady at the end of that game last year.maufman said:
redsahx said:
You realize that Brady taunted him earlier and told him to come find him at the end of the game after what he (Brady) assumed as going to be a Patriots win, right? Brady is no stranger to shit talking.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Not only that, but even assuming he was taunting, there's maybe more hatred between these two than between any other WR/DB match up. Something about Crabtree allegedly trying to fight Sherman at a charity event. Trash talking going on for months. It's two guys who don't like each other being mutually nasty to one another. It's an even fight.
wibi said:
Oh, don't play that game. Brady talks shit too and we all know it. redsahx isn't doing himself any favors today.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I agree with this. It will all depend on their cap situation and how they can structure their deals.
But Kaepernick needs to show that he's a great QB in order to be paid like one. Right now the guy can throw, the guy can run, but there is something missing. It's been discussed here how he does not read the receivers well enough and go through the progression, and teams are figuring that by pushing him towards his weak side they expose him. This actually happened a couple of times in the game.
"Whininess" aside, I think Jim Harbaugh will get the most out of these players. Let's remember he had essentially the same team in 2011 that Singletary had in 2010 and led that team through to the NFC Championship game.
WayBackVazquez said:
If you don't disagree with anything that's being said then why do you keep arguing with people?
DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
Based on what? Players go over to players on the other team and say good game all the time. Yeah, these guys have a history, so there's certainly a chance that it was done sarcastically. It's probably even a good chance. But you can't just dismiss the possibility out of hand.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
You two obviously misinterpreted my comment. I wasn't even ripping Sherman there. My point was that if you want to get noticed and enhance your "heel" status, then obviously going after a visible target like Brady then tweeting your encounter after the game will get you some attention, especially from a hyper-sensitive fan base like New England. That was really when a lot of people first started taking notice of Sherman.Dogman2 said:
Where exactly did I infer Brady was a saint who doesn't talk shit? Obviously Dogman2 was hinting to you that you were sort of bailing me out here with this straw man.wibi said:
After the game. 2 seconds after a receiver gets beaten for a season ending INT in the conference championship is probably in poor taste. I honestly can't remember players going over to other players in a non-victory formation situation.Snodgrass'Muff said:
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
They have 6 picks in the first three rounds. After completely whiffing on the 2012 draft, they need to hit on some of those. Their cap position is not too bad next year -- they're about 10m under now, but they'll probably cut Carlos Rogers (who otherwise would be the highest paid player on the team). That leaves them with about 16m in room. Of their free agents, they need to resign Boldin and Tarrell Brown. Jonathan Goodwin is 35 and a free agent and might retire. Whether to keep Whitner will be the toughest call. He's a great hitter who is very good in run support but can be a liability in coverage, but they also don't have a natural replacement for him on the roster.
The bigger reckoning will be after next year, when their young stars need extensions, along with Gore and Bruce Miller. I bet Gore's contract gets extended/restructured to lower his cap hit this year and tack on another year or two. I'll also bet that at least one of Kaep/A. Smith/Crabtree gets a big extension this season. All of those guys face risks next season that might lead them to take a below market deal in exchange for a long-term guarantee.
Areas of need in the draft are the secondary and WR, then probably D-line depth. If they can resign Boldin, then WR is more of a long-term and less immediate need. Really this roster is in great shape to be right back at the top of the league next year.
trekfan55 said:
Let's not forget that this was Kaepernick's first full season as a starter. He improved as the season went on, and his games in the playoffs were three of the his best games of the season (especially the Carolina game). Nobody comes into the NFL and immediately can read defenses and go through route progressions consistently. All young QBs struggle with that. He's maybe not quite at the level of Luck and Wilson in that area, but he also had less preparation in college than those guys did, and has had fewer first team training camp/practice reps as well. I expect him to improve in that area next season, and his physical skills are so incredible that the sky really is the limit for him if he can ever put it all together.
Maybe, but I tend to lean towards it being a sarcastic gesture. If the two of them truly hate each other, then I have a hard time believing it was a sincere gesture, and Crabtree's response is understandable. I'm sort of thinking Sherman is trying to cover himself a bit here because he realizes in hindsight how that came across. That's just a guess on my part, because I wasn't there.Snodgrass'Muff said:
Credit to Sherman for his kind thoughts towards Bowman though and calling out the few fans who apparently threw garbage at Bowman while he was being carted off. I also sympathize with Sherman for having to deal with some of that racially charged bullshit on Twitter.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
How can you not see that as taunting? It was immediately after catching a season ending pick in the Conference Championship game. It wasn't like he was helping him up and saying good game, he ran him down to try and get a handshake out of him. No player in the league would see that as a friendly gesture.
kenneycb said:
Happens all the time. Especially with players who have big rivalries. It's mostly in football and basketball, but it's pretty common.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kyEZiNszQo
DaughtersofDougMirabelli said:
I acknowledge that it was very likely taunting in the very post you quoted. I merely asked if redsahx's opinion of the Sherman would change if there was truth to Sherman's claim.
Did you actually read my post? Because that video indicates that you did not.Snodgrass'Muff said: