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NBA Grants Celtics $8.4 Million Disabled Player Exception

Discussion in 'Mark Blount's Port Cellar: Celtics Forum' started by Imbricus, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    If they were 8-30, they'd might. They are actually competing for a playoff spot though.
     
  2. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    He is owed 36 million dollars. What # do you think they would buy him out at that he would accept? He isn't going to get 18.6 million on the free agent market next year, so unless he thinks the buyout + whatver someone signs him for this year > 36 million there is little chance of that happening.
     
  3. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I missed the player option when I looked at his contract.
     
  4. benhogan

    benhogan self-effacing SoSH Member

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    I don't agree with your equation.

    It should be:
    this year's pro-rated salary + the buyout + whatever someone signs him for this year + whatever he can sign for as a FA next season > 36M

    for example, if the Knicks were 10-31(and in full tank mode) at the midpoint of the season and they offered to buyout Kanter for the rest of this year's salary ($9M), Kanter may take that. If he believes he can get the Celtics $8.4M DPE + a 1yr deal for at least $11M next season (Amir's Philly deal). Kanter would be 26 and should command a better deal than Amir Johnson.

    Enes may even get a multiple year deal at a much higher rate but Kanter would also be risking injury (and his player option)
     
    #54 benhogan, Nov 12, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  5. mcpickl

    mcpickl Member SoSH Member

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    I'd argue not only is Kanter not far better than Monroe, he's worse.

    He's a sieve on defense, while Monroe is passable.
     
  6. Manzivino

    Manzivino Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    If they want a Knicks center, they should be targeting Kyle O'Quinn. He'd fit perfectly into the front court rotation - great rebounder, good defensively, contributing positively on offense this season. He'd have to waive his player option but he's on an under market deal and he's going to be testing the market regardless. And it would be good to have his Bird Rights next year to make sure they can have one of him or Baynes moving forward.
     
  7. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    I don't think it will keep up, but for now the Knicks are winning, so I doubt they do anything with O'Quinn.
     
  8. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I don't think Kanter is close to Monroe as a player overall, and is a worse fit for this team in particular. That's really what this comes down to.
     
  9. JakeRae

    JakeRae Member SoSH Member

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    I'd agree. It's much closer if you consider someone like Tyson Chandler though.
     
  10. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    You wouldn't be acquiring either one for their defensive prowess, you'd be doing it for what they bring on the offensive end. With all the bricks Rozier and Smart put up, Kanter would get a ton of offensive rebounds and easy buckets. Monroe is the better passer of the two though.

    I just think if defense was really a consideration, they wouldn't be considering either one. I would prefer Tyson Chandler over both.
     
  11. bowiac

    bowiac I've been living a lie. Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This isn't how basketball works. Defense is always a consideration (so is offense!). This isn't baseball, where you can DH or even pinch hit with a guy. Guys need to play on both ends.

    You can debate how bad Kanter is defensively really, whether his offense and fit makes up for that, but you can't just ignore the defensive impact that these guys have entirely. It all matters.
     
  12. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I could be underrating Monroe as a player too. I'm not a fan and he seems to be in decline from the little I've seen this year, which isn't much. He's only 27 so I'm probably wrong.
     
  13. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Fair enough. I meant if it was a huge consideration or the main consideration. i think they both fit in pretty well for what the Celtics should be looking for in the 2nd unit, but that Kanter fits in better. Monroe probably fits in better with the 1st unit though as he's an underrated passer and I could see why that would move the needle in his favor.
     
  14. LondonSox

    LondonSox Robert the Deuce SoSH Member

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    You can have Okafor for the price of postage
     
  15. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    only makes sense if he's released and they can get him at the minimum.
     
  16. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    And even then it makes little sense. I think they are going to go veteran route, someone who knows his way around, and can step in and play some minutes if necessary. Okafor is the opposite of that, and likely would get a minimum offer elsewhere, and somewhere he can play and not sit on the end of a bench
     
  17. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    True but the Celtics have been rumored to have interest in Okafor forever. I'd imagine they have somewhat of an idea on how they would use him. Whether that's what is best for Okafor or not is another matter. It might be best for his development but not for his wallet.

    If they go the veteran route, I think it will require the DPE.
     
  18. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Monroe with the start tonight.
     
  19. Imbricus

    Imbricus Member SoSH Member

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    What they seem to need most right now is a shooter who can lift the bench unit. They were a putrid 2-19 last night, with Smart leading the way at 0-7 (or -1 for 7, if you count Irving's two that got reversed because of interference). That bad shooting is going to bite them on the ass in the playoffs if they can't fix it.
     
  20. Eddie Jurak

    Eddie Jurak Go Leafs Go Lifetime Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I don't rule out that they can fix it. That being said, if we had to act on the DPE today, shooter would be the obvious way to go. I still expect the Celtics to hold the DPE for now, in case a more urgent need develops.

    Since someone pointed out to me that they can re-trade a player they acquire into the DPE slot immediately, I sort of wonder if they will use the exception to hunt bigger game. 2nd round pick for some stiff making $8.4 million, followed by a deal in which they send draft picks and salaries (including said stiff) for a better player. Although thus far I like Marcus Morris on the Celtics, they could theoretically ship out the DPE guy, Morris, Yabu, and Nader for someone making ~$20 MM who wouldn't need to be on an expiring deal (although if they did that would muck up next year's cap situation).
     
  21. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    If the Clippers continue to suck, would people be interested in Lou Williams as a bench guy? Beverly would be even better.
     
  22. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    Beverley is not an expiring. The Clips also have zero reason to trade him for he is signed at way way way below market rate for next year.
     
  23. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    I can't see the Clippers punting but Lou Will is about the most perfect fit as a bench scorer that the Celtics could get right now. That said, I may be his biggest fan (stan?) in this forum.
     
  24. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    His contract next year isn't guaranteed. I guess that matters though?
     
  25. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    The Celtics need a shooter off the bench IMO. Who would be available?
     
  26. the moops

    the moops Member SoSH Member

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    It does matter. No player or team options allowed. There is also the fact that Beverley is a really good player and it would take some very valuable assets from BOS to acquire him
     
  27. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    Atm, there really isn't anyone and it looks like a lot of teams could be fighting for playoff spots. The few players that are available are all bigs, which shows you the direction the NBA is moving in. Seth Curry is a possibility, Marco Belinelli, but outside of them, we're hoping on other teams to start losing badly a la the Clippers and Lou Williams.
     
  28. bosockboy

    bosockboy lurker

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    Wes Matthews makes sense.
     
  29. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    He makes too much and isn't an expiring.
     
  30. benhogan

    benhogan self-effacing SoSH Member

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    Matthews could be a buyout candidate discussed up thread.

    on a completely unrelated note, I'd like to see Baynes start (esp against guys like Zaza and other standard bigs) and have MaMo be our offensive weapon off the bench (Iguodala role)
     
    #80 benhogan, Nov 17, 2017 at 5:32 PM
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017 at 5:52 PM
  31. benhogan

    benhogan self-effacing SoSH Member

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    Tyreke Evans is having an excellent start to the year and a monster month (not tonight). Great signing by Memphis for $3.3M

    Would much rather have him than Lou Williams. He'd be a nice fit for our 2nd unit and a good use of the DPE.

    Still, think our answer for 2nd unit scoring is MaMo being our 6th man with Baynes(~15mins/game) back in the starting lineup.
     
  32. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    I think come playoff time they'll want Morris in with the starting group which is why he isn't in the 2nd unit now.
     
  33. Manzivino

    Manzivino Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    I’d rather have the guy with a decade long history of being a good shooter than betting on Evans not to regress to what he’s been his entire career. Also, Memphis is going to be fighting for a playoff spot and are unlikely to be sellers while the Clippers look like a tire fire.
     
  34. benhogan

    benhogan self-effacing SoSH Member

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    If MaMo plays 25-30mins/game and enters for Baynes 6 minutes into the 1st Quarter does it matter if he starts? It's more about matchups and MaMo would be the #1 scoring option on the 2nd unit, while he is 4th or 5th with the starting group. I'd also want MaMo as part of the closing 5 at the end of games. MaMo may be opposed to coming off the bench, which Brad will take into account.

    Agree, the Clippers are a mess and Memphis would have to be eliminated from playoff contention in order to deal Evans so Lou will be available much earlier. I do prefer Tyreke Evans for his size and fit but could see Lou as part of a 3 guard 2nd unit. Neither are going to come free, what would you offer for Lou?
     
  35. wade boggs chicken dinner

    wade boggs chicken dinner Member SoSH Member

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    If the Cs are able to grab Okafor, they'd be doing it because DA likes his assets, not because they are trying to fix a hole this year.
     
  36. Manzivino

    Manzivino Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Maybe the Cs own first rounder which figures to be late round. I might go as high as the Clippers’ won pick they owe us; if they’re as bad as they seem they’re unlikely to make the playoffs in 2019 or 2020 and the pick is basically worthless, it might be better to cash it in while it still has some projected value. My calculus includes the value of Williams’ Bird rights, as it would be a nice hedge to know they can go over cap for one of him or Smart to pair with Rozier next year.
     
  37. benhogan

    benhogan self-effacing SoSH Member

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    You need to remove that from your calculations, we don't get them using the DPE.
     
  38. Manzivino

    Manzivino Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Theres nothing in the CBA that says Bird rights are lost for a player traded for using a DPE. This article from MassLive says they would get Bird rights for a player they traded for: link

    I think the confusion stems from the reports that the C's likely wouldn't trade for Noel using the DPE because he would lose his Bird rights, but that's because he signed a one year deal and would have to approve a trade. Any player in that situation would lose Bird rights in any trade, it has nothing to do with the DPE. Williams is on the last year of a three year deal, his Bird rights should transfer just like in any other trade.
     
  39. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, because we know the NBA would never draft, pay or play a known shoplifter!
     
  40. benhogan

    benhogan self-effacing SoSH Member

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    Manz, apologies, you are correct on a couple of points:
    1. Lou Williams would retain his Bird rights. Not sure how much we would want to go over the cap on a 32yr old Lou Williams next season with Smart contract coming up, but its worth something.
    2. Our 2nd unit needs some shooting that Lou could provide. Still, don't love adding a 6'1" defensive liability to our team when MaMo (as a 6th man) could be an internal solution to our bench scoring issues.

    Also, like Tyreke Evans more, but Memphis isn't giving him up anytime soon and Clippers are in free fall. Lou's trade cost would come cheaper, his availability would be sooner and he would have Bird rights. What conveys if that Clippers 1st rounder is in the top 14 picks in '19 or '20?

    At the end of the day Danny & Co can stand pat with the DPE and not be in a rush with the team winning and exceeding all expectations so far. Hence he'll probably wait, post-trade date, to see the buyout candidates and address the Celtics needs then.
     
  41. Manzivino

    Manzivino Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The Clippers pick turns into a 2022 second rounder if it doesn’t convey by 2020.

    I don’t love Lou defensively either, but if you spot his minutes and play him with Smart and Rozier off the bench you can hide him. I would only expect them to re-sign Williams if they couldn’t sign Smart; that way they don’t lose the salary spot completely. I would be surprised if they dont exploit the opportunity to add someone with Bird rights for just that reason, whether it’s Williams or someone else.

    Agreed that there’s no rush and they’ll wait until they see all their likely buyout candidate options before doing anything.
     
  42. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    If the object of adding a player is for offense then Williams, who shots ~35% from deep, is far better than Evans, who is ~30% from deep.
     
  43. JakeRae

    JakeRae Member SoSH Member

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    This only makes sense if you both think that offense is entirely about 3 point shooting and you ignore the dramatic improvement in Evans' shooting over the last 3 years. He was .388 2 years ago, .356 last year and is over .400 so far this year. It seems safe to assume he's at least a .350 shooter from deep at this point.
     
  44. bosox79

    bosox79 Member SoSH Member

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    He played a total of 65 games the past 2 years, and had 203 3 point attempts. It's safe to assume nothing.
     
  45. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I was just about to point out that he played a total of 40 games last season and just over a quarter the season before. Prior to that, he was pretty abysmal from three.

    There is no question that Evans length makes him a more versatile addition (even if he isn't a defensive stalwart) but I keep seeing posters say that the C's need more bench scoring (and I wholeheartedly agree).

    Assuming that Ainge/Stevens also concur, I would prefer the Celtics spend resources to get the more dependable scoring option rather than a guy who is a regression candidate, even if he offers more upside than a more one dimensional player like Williams.
     

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