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Mookie Betts: Your 2018 American League MVP

Discussion in 'Red Sox Forum' started by LogansDad, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

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    16,491
    28 of 30 votes, and a baby in his lap.

    It's a little dusty in here.
     
  2. brandonchristensen

    brandonchristensen mad photochops SoSH Member

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    22,434
    Amazing year. We are fortunate to have him.
     
  3. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    19,722
    Who were the 2 goofballs?
     
  4. Spelunker

    Spelunker Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    5,327
    Even though I was pretty sure this was going to happen, I'm still surprised by how happy this makes me.
     
  5. chrisfont9

    chrisfont9 Member SoSH Member

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    4,189
    I can't stop watching this.
     
  6. Hawk68

    Hawk68 lurker

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    141
    Mookie as MVP is the cherry on the Sundae that is 2018 Red Sox season.
     
  7. Beomoose

    Beomoose Member SoSH Member

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    16,440
    Fist pumped in my living room when I saw this, good effing day.
     
  8. Earthbound64

    Earthbound64 Member SoSH Member

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    Well-deserved.
    The whole "PlayerA stealing votes from PlayerB on the same team" thing always seems to be overblown.
     
  9. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    The year of the Mook!

    This moment summarized the whole season. Which is why I had it immortalized on my wall. Thanks Rip!

    [​IMG]

    Ok, I don't have it yet, but when I do, it'll look damn good up on my wall.
     
  10. nvalvo

    nvalvo Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

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    Looks like Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star Telegram voted Trout-Betts, which I'd call defensible, and Dave Campbell, the Twins beat writer for AP voted JDM-Betts. Also defensible.

    JDM got two 2nd place votes, Bregman one, Jose Ramirez one, and Trout 24. Good job, everybody.
     
  11. chrisfont9

    chrisfont9 Member SoSH Member

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    4,189
    Nice! Yeah, I keep coming back to it as a pretty good explainer for the entire season.
     
  12. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    Yup. That was the moment I knew we had this in the bag.

    Hell of a year, Mookie. Hell of a year.
     
  13. The Allented Mr Ripley

    The Allented Mr Ripley holden Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    11,443
    Thanks for the kind words. Here's a time lapse video of the drawing being created:



    Congrats, Mookie!
     
  14. nvalvo

    nvalvo Well-Known Member Silver Supporter SoSH Member

    Messages:
    15,619
  15. Sausage in Section 17

    Sausage in Section 17 Poker Champ SoSH Member

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    909
    Congratulations to Mookie on one of the greatest individual seasons in Red Sox history, nicely complementing the greatest season in team history!!

    Now............

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    Pastel porn
    Awesome work, Rip
     
  17. E5 Yaz

    E5 Yaz Transcends message boarding Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  18. mikeot

    mikeot Member SoSH Member

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    5,403
    Well deserved, really the only choice. MookVP!
     
  19. ifmanis5

    ifmanis5 Member SoSH Member

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    What a great moment. "I'm telling ya, it's time to party!"

    Also thinking of the grand slam against the MFY, the 3-HR game owning the Angels, the perfect throw to get Daniel Murphy at third, the walk off against the Twins, hitting for the cycle against the Jays, the other perfect throw to get Tony Kemp. What a season.
     
  20. drbretto

    drbretto guidence counselor SoSH Member

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    8,935
    I totally should have let you post that here but I got too excited! :p
     
  21. Max Power

    Max Power thai good. you like shirt? SoSH Member

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    I can understand JD over Mookie. If a writer really likes clutch hitting and RBI, JD was the guy. It's kind of dumb, but whatever. I don't understand Trout over Mookie. Mookie did all the same things Trout does as well or better than him this year. Maybe the writer was super into IBB fueled OBP.
     
  22. dhappy42

    dhappy42 Member

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    4,906
  23. Lose Remerswaal

    Lose Remerswaal Leaves after the 8th inning Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    33,105
    Pedroia had a rough year
     
  24. cheekydave

    cheekydave Member SoSH Member

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    2,969
    Watching Mookie Betts, makes me feel 8 years old again. Easy to root for such a talented low ego kid. You just cannot lose this kid. Pay Him. Alot, as much as he asks for.
     
  25. RoDaddy

    RoDaddy Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    2,099
    So happy for him - Mookie's been great to watch since day 1. I remember the growing excitement in the minor league forum during his breakout year in A ball after a meh first season in Lowell (albeit at a very young age). He just kept getting better and better and continued in the bigs. I remember watching Ricky Henderson during his prime, and wishing we had a lead off hitter like that. Now we do, and he's even better!

    And Yaz is #3 on the all-time season WAR list - wow!
     
  26. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    This is my favorite AB of 2018. Mookie's shouting at the dugout after that bomb was the icing. He is just a joy to watch play baseball and deserves every award and dollar he gets for what he has done thus far.
     
  27. chrisfont9

    chrisfont9 Member SoSH Member

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    4,189
    So much emotion for a game in July. It was unforgettable. I'm sure it had an impact on the team.
     
  28. DeJesus Built My Hotrod

    DeJesus Built My Hotrod Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    27,026
  29. SumnerH

    SumnerH Malt Liquor Picker Dope

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    A reminder that WAR isn't a stat, it's a concept/framework. Yaz is #3 on the rWAR list, but “just” #20 on the fWAR list.

    Betts tied Ted for #2 on the Red Sox list (rWAR), but is behind 4 Ted seasons and 1 each from Yaz and Speaker in fWAR.

    Any way you slice it, impressive as heck. And a well-deserved win.
     
  30. reggiecleveland

    reggiecleveland sublime Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    20,033
    That is one of the most amazing things I ever watched. Happ made about 7 exceptional pitches, and the homer was a good pitch too.
     
  31. canyoubelieveit

    canyoubelieveit Member SoSH Member

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    If you ever have 5 free minutes and want to put yourself in a better mood, keep picking out individual fans behind home plate and watch their reactions when Mookie hits it (at about 8:09). For many of them the camera cuts away just after the moment of realization and it's a joy to watch.

    Congrats to the MVP.
     
  32. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    I always try to identify all of the players on those BBREF collage pages by their pics. That’s the first time I’ve been able to get them all. Honus Wagner was the only one that was a bit tough. Good company for Mookie all right.
     
  33. MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

    MyDaughterLovesTomGordon Member SoSH Member

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    I've been thinking about this. Without looking at the WAR list, because I think that's boring, how does Mookie's season rank in the annals of Red Sox history?

    Competitors would be:
    Yaz triple crown in 1967
    Ted triple crown in 1942 (or .406 in 1941 (or 46 or 47, I guess - he was pretty good))
    Clemens in 1986 (or 1990? Forgot how amazing that season was for him)
    Pedro in 1999 (I know 2000 is better by ERA+, but I'm partial to 1999, given the playoff performance)
    Rice in 1978
    Tris Speaker in 1912 (I dunno; B-Ref really likes that season, but I didn't see it with my own eyes, ya know)
    Maybe even Jacoby in 2011?

    Mookie's gotta be 1, 2, or 3, I think.
     
  34. mwonow

    mwonow Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    (Using my best Johnny Most voice): JUSTICE!
     
  35. Savin Hillbilly

    Savin Hillbilly loves the secret sauce SoSH Member

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    17,915
    A good list. I'd have to put Yaz 67 and Williams 46 at the top since both seasons led teams that broke generation-long WS droughts, and both are at or near the top in objective value as well.

    After that, Mookie 2018 and Spoke 1912, probably in that order.

    While we're talking 1912, Smoky Joe Wood's season belongs in there somewhere: 344 innings, 1.91 ERA, 35 complete games, 10 shutouts. Utterly dominant, very much in the same vein as Pedro 1999-2000 and Clemens 1990.
     
  36. John Marzano Olympic Hero

    John Marzano Olympic Hero has fancy plans, and pants to match Dope

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    19,667
    I posted this on social media last night and thought that it was interesting:

    In the 1930s: Jimmie Foxx won the MVP
    40s: Ted Williams (x2)
    50s: Jackie Jensen
    60s: Carl Yastrzemski
    70s: Fred Lynn and Jim Rice
    80s: Roger Clemens
    90s: Mo Vaughn
    00s: Dustin Pedroia
    10s: Mookie Betts

    No other MLB team has had an MVP per decade streak like the Boston Red Sox. Further, if the Sox had an MVP in the 1920s, the streak would reach 11 decades in a row because Tris Speaker won the award in the 1910s.

    No matter what people may have told you, there's been a lot of great baseball players at Fenway Park for a long time.

    The question for SoSH is, how would you rank those MVP seasons in order of greatness?
     
  37. BuellMiller

    BuellMiller lurker

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    290
    I knew he had some great seasons, and legitimately deserved the MVP in 91, even if the Orioles only won 67 games, but I never realized Ripken had that good of a season by WAR. Amazing what you can learn from jumping down bref rabbit holes. Question, though. Who would lose a series between the 1991 orioles and the 2018 orioles, if the 1991 Orioles didn't have Ripken (and the 2018 Orioles didn't have Machado at all).
     
  38. dhappy42

    dhappy42 Member

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    4,906
    The one that surprised me the most was Rico Petrocelli’s 10 WAR year in 1969. He’s tied with Ripken (1984,) Hornsby (1922,) Lajoie (1906,) Speaker (1915)and Bryce Harper (2015.)

    Ranking just ahead of them are Ruth (1928) and Rosen* (1953.) Just below are Bonds 1993,) Cobb (1909,) Henderson (1985 and ‘90) and Williams (1947.)

    I knew he was underrated, but had no idea that in 1969 Petrocelli had a season comparable to Bonds, Ruth, and Williams.

    *I’d never even heard of Al Rosen.
     
  39. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,371
    That's beyond interesting, that's kinda crazy. Also that you used to be ineligible if you had won one before and in 1929 they decided to drop the award in the AL. WTF?
     
  40. Max Power

    Max Power thai good. you like shirt? SoSH Member

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    3,413
    A story about the early history of the MVP/Chalmers Award was just posted yesterday.

    https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/re-examining-the-chalmers-award/
     
  41. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    17,371
  42. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    48,030
    If Harry Frazee hadn’t sold Babe Ruth down the river, there’s your Red Sox 20s MVP.
     
  43. DGreenwood

    DGreenwood Member SoSH Member

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    1,249
    10% of the voters had Mookie and JD as their top two. That's a cool little tidbit.
     
  44. Al Zarilla

    Al Zarilla Member SoSH Member

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    48,030
    Give me Ted’s .406 season in 1941. How many of us will ever see another .400 season? Never say never, but, I don’t think I will. 1941 was Ted’s best offensive WAR season too. For some reason, his fielding was worse in 1941 than in 1946 (switch from RF to LF?).
     
  45. Max Power

    Max Power thai good. you like shirt? SoSH Member

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    3,413
    I didn't know that we could indirectly thank Ty Cobb for the current MVP award switching from strictly batting average to overall performance, the addition of a character component, and the writers in each city voting. All these things we argue about are barely changed for the last 100 years.
     
  46. chrisfont9

    chrisfont9 Member SoSH Member

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    4,189
    My favorites were the changeup Mookie sqibbed in the dirt and the one he just barely got the very end of the bat on. It's a game of millimeters...
     
  47. RoDaddy

    RoDaddy Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    2,099
     
  48. RoDaddy

    RoDaddy Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    2,099
    How about some of the Babe Ruth years? Any of 1916, 1918 and 1919. His combination of hitting and pitching is almost unheard of in the history of Major League Baseball - great pitching numbers, longest complete game in World Series history, 29+ scoreless innings, the World Series pitching wins, while also winning home run titles in 1918 and 1919 with OPS's around 1
     
  49. Barbara Charles

    Barbara Charles lurker

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    11
    You have some talent, son!
     
  50. Savin Hillbilly

    Savin Hillbilly loves the secret sauce SoSH Member

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    17,915
    A post in the Pearce thread reminded me that I had not yet really processed the fact that Mookie Betts just had an MVP, 10+ WAR season where he missed almost 30 games.

    His 136 games played are the fewest in MLB history by a player with at least 10 rWAR. Only two other guys have ever had a 10-rWAR season with under 140 games played: Trout (2012, 139 G/10.5 rWAR), and Rogers Hornsby (1925, 138/10.2).

    Among all 10+ WAR players, only Ruth, Hornsby and Barry Bonds have had a season with more rWAR per game played than Betts 2018. If you make the denominator PA instead of G, you can add Yaz, Mantle, Cobb and Honus Wagner to that list.

    It just keeps getting more amazing.
     

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