MLB to announce pace of play rules for 2015

[cromulence]

Rule 8.03: Pitcher Warm-Up  
When a pitcher takes his position at the beginning of each inning, or when he relieves another pitcher, he shall be permitted to pitch not to exceed eight preparatory pitches to his catcher during which play shall be suspended. A league by its own action may limit the number of preparatory pitches to less than eight preparatory pitches. Such preparatory pitches shall not consume more than one minute of time. If a sudden emergency causes a pitcher to be summoned into the game without any opportunity to warm up, the umpire-in-chief shall allow him as many pitches as the umpire deems necessary.
 

 
Thanks for not responding to what I said. We all know that the rules aren't always followed all that closely - that's why we had the pace of play problem in the first place. If you have a source that contradicts what I said that isn't just quoting the MLB Rulebook, that'd be great.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

 
Thanks for not responding to what I said. We all know that the rules aren't always followed all that closely - that's why we had the pace of play problem in the first place. If you have a source that contradicts what I said that isn't just quoting the MLB Rulebook, that'd be great.

 
Well, the rule book does contradict the notion that players are allowed more than eight warm-ups now if they can get them in under the clock.  Whether the rule is followed to the letter or not isn't a given one way or another.
 
The rule limits warm-ups to a maximum of eight but also notes that the pitcher is not necessarily entitled to all eight pitches (the "A league by its own action may limit..." clause).  Stands to reason that the clock expiring counts as the "league by its own action" limiting the pitcher to less than eight throws, but getting all eight in with time to spare does not necessarily allow for the opportunity for more pitches.
 
The quote from McCann doesn't really indicate that the pitcher gets extra throws if he gets out there quickly.  He seems only to be saying that he now makes a more conscious effort to get out there quickly to ensure that the clock doesn't expire before the pitcher gets all eight of his warm-ups in.  Before the clock, the pitcher could throw all eight pitches regardless of how long it took...the game effectively would wait for him.  Now it won't.

 

[glennhoffmania]

 
Thanks for not responding to what I said. We all know that the rules aren't always followed all that closely - that's why we had the pace of play problem in the first place. If you have a source that contradicts what I said that isn't just quoting the MLB Rulebook, that'd be great.

 
I've never seen or heard of an instance where the 8 pitch limit isn't followed.  Just because things like the 12 second rule weren't always followed doesn't mean that some other random rule in the rule book isn't followed.  You seem to be trying to find a justification for something you like that simply isn't there.  The pitcher throws 8 pitches.  99.99% of the time he does so before the commercials are over.  Therefore any delay during the break between half innings is not a result of a pitcher warming up.

 

[Average Reds]

 
I've never seen or heard of an instance where the 8 pitch limit isn't followed.  Just because things like the 12 second rule weren't always followed doesn't mean that some other random rule in the rule book isn't followed.  You seem to be trying to find a justification for something you like that simply isn't there.  The pitcher throws 8 pitches.  99.99% of the time he does so before the commercials are over.  Therefore any delay during the break between half innings is not a result of a pitcher warming up.

 
I will try and find the story, but I read something a few days ago about one pitcher talking about how much he liked the new rules because it allowed him to get in 10-12 warmups.

 

[glennhoffmania]

Even if that's true, the point I was trying to make was that the pitchers' lack of hustle prior to the pace of play changes didn't hold up the game.  Both this season and last season whatever warm ups they throw/threw don't/didn't slow down the game.  It's the length of the commercial break that slows down the game.  If a guy can take 100 warm ups, great.  But their new desire to hustle out to the mound doesn't speed up the game at all.  That's all I've been trying to say.

 

[charlieoscar]

Even if that's true, the point I was trying to make was that the pitchers' lack of hustle prior to the pace of play changes didn't hold up the game.  Both this season and last season whatever warm ups they throw/threw don't/didn't slow down the game.  It's the length of the commercial break that slows down the game.  If a guy can take 100 warm ups, great.  But their new desire to hustle out to the mound doesn't speed up the game at all.  That's all I've been trying to say.

 
While the length of commercial breaks adds a lot of time to games, it is fixed. Given the same number of innings being played by teams a&b and c&d, there shouldn't be any difference in the time taken for commercial breaks. There is, however, the fact that fixed length depends upon the nature of the broadcast (national tv, post-season, for example). From 2002 through 2012, the average time of Red Sox-Yankee games was 28.1 minutes longer relative to the average time of all games. The next closest to that were Yankee-Angel games, which were 12.9 minutes longer than the average time. Various Red Sox match-ups were among 4 of the 5 longest, relative to average time, among all teams. On the other hand, Blue Jay-Oriole games were the quickest, averaging 7.9 minutes less than the overall average.
 
So, you have Red Sox-Yankee games averaging 36 minutes longer than Blue Jay-Oriole games, even though the time between innings probably won't account for that.
fivethirtyeightsports
 
Factors like pitches per PA, PA per game, pitching changes per game are more likely culprits. Scoring? Four runs scored by home runs should take less time than four runs scored by walks and singles.

 

[glennhoffmania]

That's all interesting but it's not at all the point.  Yes, some teams play longer games than others.  That's a fact.  My point, which I thought was pretty straightforward, was that a big reason why games are over three hours is because of the commercial breaks.  It's not because pitchers take their sweet time throwing their warm ups.  If each commercial break was a minute shorter, I'd bet that games overall would be 18 minutes shorter (ignoring pre-start commercials, mid-inning pitching changes, etc.) 
 
So Sox/Yanks games would still be 36 minutes longer than BJ/Os games, but both would still be 18 minutes shorter than they are today.  Pitchers warming up wouldn't have any impact even if some umps allow them to throw more than 8 pitches.
 
I'm only making an observation here, not arguing that commercials need to be banned.  I understand that teams want to make money.  I also don't really mind the length of games so all of this is meaningless to me personally.  If enforcing the pitch clock and requiring batters to keep one foot in the box speeds up play by a few minutes and makes people happy, great.  I was strictly limiting my disagreement to the the warm up pitch argument.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

Commercial breaks are not fixed. This should be obvious with the rise of the one PA reliever.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Commercial breaks are not fixed. This should be obvious with the rise of the one PA reliever.

 
Between inning commercial breaks, which is what ghoff is specifically referring to, are absolutely fixed: 2:25 for local broadcasts, 2:45 for national broadcasts.
 
According to the rulebook, relievers get their 8 pitches when they enter a game but those 8 pitches are supposed to be thrown within a minute.  So presumably, television has about one minute's worth of advertising time if they want to cut away to a commerical.  But that time obviously varies because they haven't and apparently still don't really put a timer on a reliever when it comes to warming up.  Frankly, I've always wondered why a reliever really need eight pitches when he's presumably been warming in the pen already.  Given him a couple to get comfortable/familiar with the mound, then get on with it.  If that means he has to throw a couple more in the pen before he's deemed ready to enter the game, so be it.

 

[kieckeredinthehead]

 
Between inning commercial breaks, which is what ghoff is specifically referring to, are absolutely fixed: 2:25 for local broadcasts, 2:45 for national broadcasts.
 
According to the rulebook, relievers get their 8 pitches when they enter a game but those 8 pitches are supposed to be thrown within a minute.  So presumably, television has about one minute's worth of advertising time if they want to cut away to a commerical.  But that time obviously varies because they haven't and apparently still don't really put a timer on a reliever when it comes to warming up.  Frankly, I've always wondered why a reliever really need eight pitches when he's presumably been warming in the pen already.  Given him a couple to get comfortable/familiar with the mound, then get on with it.  If that means he has to throw a couple more in the pen before he's deemed ready to enter the game, so be it.

Just read one more post up and you'll see somebody arguing that the total length of commercial breaks in a game will be the same for every team.

 

[The Talented Allen Ripley]

Grantland does a breakdown that shows things are working so far. Info related to pace of play is the middle third of the article, the rest is devoted to other trends (scoring, fastball velocity, defensive shifts, etc).

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

That's a great article for any baseball fan, especially those around here.  My favorite bit brings up an old argument round these parts:
 

 
Have we had enough yet? I get it: Tradition is a big part of baseball. But civilization favors specialization, and so does sports. Players no longer manage. Managers no longer general manage. And pitchers — regardless of the rules that require them to — no longer hit. Pitcher plate appearances are starting to seem sadistic, so let’s call off the farce.

 
Preach on, brother Ben Lindbergh.

 

[AB in DC]

Baltimore may have found a way to make the game go even faster.
 

Playing with no spectators was unprecedented in Major League Baseball until now. It was also the second-fastest game ever (2:03) in which one team scored at least 8 runs.

 
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/1339001-unprecedented-crowd-situation-at-camden-yards-contact-the-royals/

 

[MakMan44]

That's pretty funny. I wonder why that happened. 

 

[GRPhilipp]

That's pretty funny. I wonder why that happened. 

Seriously!  All the things that were different seem like they should be irrelevant to the pace of the game.  Most batters had no walk-up music, right?  DId hitters get in the box faster because they weren't waiting for music to end?  
 
Reporters said it was easy to hear everything everyone said so... yeah, I've got nothing there.  Easier communication leads to quicker responses by...?
 
Crazy thought: Is it possible that the psychological pressure of having tens of thousands of people present and cheering (for or against) makes people act slower?  Is that a thing?
 
Everyone knows that playoff games have big, raucous crowds and are slow and it's a cliche that the Sox-MFY games from years ago were always sold out, intense affairs and took a long time.  Is there a general correlation between crowd size and length of game?

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I'm incredibly curious why that game was so quick, and if the empty seats had anything to do with it...which is inexplicable.

New pace of play rule for 2016: no fans in the stadium.

 

[AB in DC]

The only thing I can think of is that the players were so weirded out by the situation that they got out of there as fast as possible.

 

[charlieoscar]

In 2011 the Marlins hosted the Reds in front of 347 spectators. Many more tickets were sold but Hurricane Irene kept them away. That broke a modern record of 653 at an A's game in 1979.
 
However, if you go back to the NL in 1882, Worcester hosted Troy in front of six paid spectators. The weather was bad and both teams were bad and scheduled to be eliminated from the league.
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/04/29/baseball-low-attendance-record-long-held-worcester-could-fall/MaBagwpst4tcJfabt8NLhI/story.html

 

[75cent bleacher seat]

In 2011 the Marlins hosted the Reds in front of 347 spectators. Many more tickets were sold but Hurricane Irene kept them away. That broke a modern record of 653 at an A's game in 1979.
 

 
1979 may have been the year Wayne Gross stood on top of the dugout after the game and thanked the fans for coming.
 
edit: typo

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Good question about walk up music.  They did do the anthem and Take Me Out to the Ballgame. 
 
Maybe not playing "Thank God I'm A Country Boy" made the difference?

 

[richgedman'sghost]

The Mets and Marlins played a nine inning game in an hour fifty eight minutes on Monday.

 

[cromulence]

Good question about walk up music.  They did do the anthem and Take Me Out to the Ballgame. 
 
Maybe not playing "Thank God I'm A Country Boy" made the difference?

 
Actually, they did. Wouldn't be Camden Yards without it. I remember being a kid there and asking my dad what this awful song was and why everyone was so happy to hear it.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

The Mets and Marlins played a nine inning game in an hour fifty eight minutes on Monday.

 
Shortest game since 2012, I believe.  That was at least a lower scoring game, but still, wicked fast.

 

[canderson]

The Mets and Marlins played a nine inning game in an hour fifty eight minutes on Monday.

I'd demand tickets to a second game. 

 

[Rasputin]

The only thing I can think of is that the players were so weirded out by the situation that they got out of there as fast as possible.

 
Yeah, there's people setting the city on fire. I'd want to get the hell out of dodge too.

 

[Harry Hooper]

 
1979 may have been the year Wayne Gross stood on top of the dugout after the game and thanked the fans for coming.
 
 

 
 
Yes, the joke was that he could have thanked them all personally as they exited the stadium.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

How much time does "God Bless America" add?

Although it would be horrific to forget to ask God to bless America in song 12 times a day...

 

[MakMan44]

I sort of miss 3-4 hour games. I understand that I'm probably in the minority here, but the games seem to over so quickly now.