Malcolm Butler vs. Dave Roberts
- Thread starter The Talented Allen Ripley
- Start date
Dave Roberts. The catalyst to erasing 86 years of misery. Malcolm, god love him, secured our 4th.
Butler. Everyone expected Roberts to do it as the odds were in his favor. Butler's was just so out of left field. Plus this cemented the win. After the steal, we still had to win 7 1/2 more games.
Roberts, because the stakes were higher (86 years) and everyone knew what he was going too do and he still did it.
Roberts's play was the ultimate catalyst. It set in motion the most historic comeback in sports history. Butler's play singlehandedly won a Superbowl. Saved a Superbowl really, after that ridiculous unlikely catch by Kearse.
Still Roberts's was more theatrical, whatever that means.
Both plays kicked fucking ass
Still Roberts's was more theatrical, whatever that means.
Both plays kicked fucking ass
Tough to compare.
The Steal was like that first thing that happens in a Shakespearean tragedy to make you realize everything is about to unravel. So many things still had to happen, but it was the beginning of the end.
The Pick was the deus ex machina that just doesn't really make sense but makes everything okay in the end.
The Steal was like that first thing that happens in a Shakespearean tragedy to make you realize everything is about to unravel. So many things still had to happen, but it was the beginning of the end.
The Pick was the deus ex machina that just doesn't really make sense but makes everything okay in the end.
The pick won a championship
Roberts would have had to steal home to win the world series to be equivalent.
Roberts would have had to steal home to win the world series to be equivalent.
Individual play without narrative? Butler by a lot. Add history and you flip to Roberts
Edit: same point dr made
Edit: same point dr made
Butler, by a long shot. But i understand most here leaning toward Roberts. After all this forum isn't called sons of Hugh Millen
After the play my mild acquaintance made the Willie McGinest comparison against the Colts. As someone who was abusrdly down on the Pats chances, that was fucking awesome. And then Butler picked the pass off. I would've made sweeter love to him had I not been a fan of his wife. That was fucking awesome.
Edit: Yeah I got to share Roberts with my dad as we were driving back from hockey but this was so fucking sweet. I put it above at the moment.
Edit 2: After Butler got the pick, school got cancelled for tomorrow because apparently Michigan can't clear roads. Daddy's gonna be hungover so fuck it.
Edit: Yeah I got to share Roberts with my dad as we were driving back from hockey but this was so fucking sweet. I put it above at the moment.
Edit 2: After Butler got the pick, school got cancelled for tomorrow because apparently Michigan can't clear roads. Daddy's gonna be hungover so fuck it.
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MentalDisabldLst
Guest
Ask me again in 5 years when I have the time to put some perspective on it. To rush to an answer on this would kinda feel like a disservice to one or the other.
My heart wants to say nothing would ever take the place of Dave Roberts because of what that ended up meaning - it was a distilled representation of how that team never gave up and was going to take every frigging inch they could and see what they could get out of it.
My brain wants to say that Butler's play was the difference between winning and losing a title, all on his own. But it wasn't facing down the same historical baggage, it wasn't done with everyone watching him and only him and letting the tension build - it was just a instant reaction, one of 11 on the field, and it happened to be the moment that he was on the spot.
I think the degree of difficulty on the play was probably higher with Roberts, but really, I just don't friggen know. I don't want to take anything away from one or the other right now.
My heart wants to say nothing would ever take the place of Dave Roberts because of what that ended up meaning - it was a distilled representation of how that team never gave up and was going to take every frigging inch they could and see what they could get out of it.
My brain wants to say that Butler's play was the difference between winning and losing a title, all on his own. But it wasn't facing down the same historical baggage, it wasn't done with everyone watching him and only him and letting the tension build - it was just a instant reaction, one of 11 on the field, and it happened to be the moment that he was on the spot.
I think the degree of difficulty on the play was probably higher with Roberts, but really, I just don't friggen know. I don't want to take anything away from one or the other right now.
I have no idea if this goes in eihter's favor but:
Everyone knew Roberts was gonna go.
Nobody thought the Seahawks should've thrown on 2nd and Goal on the 1.
Fuck truthers.
Everyone knew Roberts was gonna go.
Nobody thought the Seahawks should've thrown on 2nd and Goal on the 1.
Fuck truthers.
Also worth noting that Butler really wasn't supposed to be in this game. He played the 2nd half because Arrington soiled his drawers in the first half.
In terms if the meaning of the play Butler. Most people were dejected, then Butler makes the INT and turns everything around (while we were all still having visions of that ridiculous catch). When Dave Roberts stole 2nd, and later scored, he merely tied the game, then when the Sox won how many of us thought that the Series might still be lost??
Yes, in restrospect Dave Roberts started a chain of events that to this day bring a smile to my face, but Butler single handedly saved the win with one play.
Yes, in restrospect Dave Roberts started a chain of events that to this day bring a smile to my face, but Butler single handedly saved the win with one play.
Dave Roberts was 38/41 in steal attempts in 2004. Everyone expected him to steal that base, the only surprising part was how close Posada made the play. Nobody in Boston would still remember Roberts was on that team if Bill Mueller and Ortiz didn't complete more improbable tasks that night.
Butler won a Superbowl with his pick.
Butler won a Superbowl with his pick.
Roberts' steal has obviously reached mythic proportions, but it didn't win a championship. Butler had what is probably the biggest interception in history, on a tremendous individual effort, and saved Patriot fans another lifetime of "I can't believe we lost on that ridiculous catch."
Stitch01 said:
The INT swung the game from a 12% chance of victory to 97%. So, yeah, it was much bigger. Not even remotely close. But Roberts shook off almost 90 years of losses. That means more, in my opinion. But Butler is up there.
They are close and similar, but not exactly the same. Butler won the game, preventing the "we lost on a ridiculous catch" from reverberating yet again, and allowing bragging rights to legacies for the team, its coach, and its legendary quarterback. And maybe deflated some of the deflategate garbage. That is huge. But I don't think there is anything that has been in the Boston/New England psyche as much as the 86 year old "curse." While Butler's fantastic play had almost immediate results leading to instantaneous gratification, the implications of Robert's play took longer to play out in its impact on the psyche of our regional sports fandom. To me, Roberts wins by a whisker. But this is all nitpicking...both are damned huge sports hero's in my book!!
As has been stated, Butler's play was likely the biggest INT in NFL history, and probably the single biggest play in Super Bowl history. And it was, really, an incredible play from positioning to execution. How'd he hold on to that ball after even getting there in the first place.
But, man, Roberts. And it's not even close.
But that's about the whole '04 narrative and the history around it. Not about the play itself.
But, man, Roberts. And it's not even close.
But that's about the whole '04 narrative and the history around it. Not about the play itself.
Think about it this way. In the minds of most, Roberts is the icon who encapsulates the final obliteration of 86 years of Red Sox angst. But his steal was simply the first in a series of heroic events, each requiring some member of that team to rise up and do something incredible, and every one of their contributions was vital - and equally necessary - before that last baseball settled into Mientkiewicz' glove. In that way, Butler's play was the polar opposite. Once the team was 10 points down in the 4th quarter, one hero after another simply HAD to step up and make play after play on both offense and defense. Until Marvelous Malcolm sealed the deal at the end.
Roberts started it and Butler finished it and in each case a mountain of angst and dread was erased. Who was better? I can't even fathom the question - both are in my fan-debt forever.
Roberts started it and Butler finished it and in each case a mountain of angst and dread was erased. Who was better? I can't even fathom the question - both are in my fan-debt forever.
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MentalDisabldLst
Guest
More like picking off a guy on first with bonds up and the bases loaded to win the ws. No way they should have thrown that balldrleather2001 said:
Felger and Mazz just went through the top 10 or so plays in recent Boston sports history. I can't believe we've already pushed Vinatieri's contributions in the 2001 playoff season down the list.
Depends how much you factor in hindsight. At the time, I thought the Roberts steal improved our chances of winning the ALCS from 0% to about .000000000000001%. It was kind of like, "hahahahahahahaha, wooooo, the electric chair malfunctioned! Now I've got five minutes to enjoy life while they fix the short circuit! Suck it, haters!!!" I don't think I even pondered the remote possibility of a slightly longer stay of execution till Mueller drove him in.
At the moment of the Butler pick, I went from thinking we had a 99% shot to lose to more like 99% to win. Hard to imagine a wider swing of emotions in a single moment.
Obviously if you expand the context and allow the hindsight of the eight straight wins, it's Roberts hands-down. Generations of Red Sox fans lived with the pervasive, all-consuming fear of never seeing a WS title in their lifetimes. Nothing the three-time champion Pats could possibly do (for the next couple of generations anyway) could equal the satisfaction of erasing that fear.
At the moment of the Butler pick, I went from thinking we had a 99% shot to lose to more like 99% to win. Hard to imagine a wider swing of emotions in a single moment.
Obviously if you expand the context and allow the hindsight of the eight straight wins, it's Roberts hands-down. Generations of Red Sox fans lived with the pervasive, all-consuming fear of never seeing a WS title in their lifetimes. Nothing the three-time champion Pats could possibly do (for the next couple of generations anyway) could equal the satisfaction of erasing that fear.
Butler:
If you could run each play 100 times, Roberts steals that base 97% of the time. Butler makes and secures the interception maybe 5 times out of 100.
In the end, we immediately knew the result of the play. It took several more days before Roberts' steal secured it's place in the pantheon.
If you could run each play 100 times, Roberts steals that base 97% of the time. Butler makes and secures the interception maybe 5 times out of 100.
In the end, we immediately knew the result of the play. It took several more days before Roberts' steal secured it's place in the pantheon.
The Allented Mr Ripley said:
Plus, Marshawn's run on first down was like Tony Clark in the bottom of the 9th in Game 6. A big hit(run) ends the game and the series. An out(stop) gives them another chance.
Roberts is the most overrated Boston sports hero. That he is the household name and not Bill Mueller is really sad.
And yes, this take is hot, hot, hot!
And yes, this take is hot, hot, hot!