Liverpool 2015-16: We Didn't Want To Play in Europe Anyway

JayMags71 · Oct 5, 2015

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Liverpool have been poor this season but if they were going to fire Rodgers after going 3-3-2 in their first eight games when he was without Sturridge and integrating a bunch of new players then they should have just fired him after the Stoke game last year and given the new manager the summer to buy players and put his team together.

Many have theorized that was the original plan. But their intended target (Klopp) turned them down, saying he wanted to take a sabbatical. Seeing no better options on the market, they decide to stay their hand.

JayMags71 · Oct 5, 2015

Moreover, it's not necessarily the first eight matches of this season that got him the sack. Since losing at home to MUFC on March 22, they've played 22 matches. In that span, they've had:

Six wins
Eight ties, and
Eight losses.

I can honestly see some merit to the line of argument that says "he hasn't had enough time to get used to the summer signings". But if you take a longer-term view, firing him is eminently defensible.

MiracleOfO2704 · Oct 5, 2015

DLew On Roids said:
This is an extremely UK-centric position, though. Having a sporting director or director of football is the standard in virtually every other major league. The trick is to get the manager and the sporting director on the same page philosophically, as has usually been the case at a place like Barcelona since Cruyff established its current structure.

It's fair to say, though, that the director of football structure is about as popular among British pundits as herpes. Just like zonal marking, when a club using it fails, the guy on TV will always point the finger at it.

Stan Collymore is on TalkSport right now, and he's ripping FSG apart, saying the transfer committee has been an unmitigated failure. Also, I seriously doubt Collymore understands what Moneyball is, calling it "men in suits playing FIFA 16."

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Oct 5, 2015

JayMags71 said:
Many have theorized that was the original plan. But their intended target (Klopp) turned them down, saying he wanted to take a sabbatical. Seeing no better options on the market, they decide to stay their hand.

This makes more sense to me. I guess the big question is whether they do end up with Klopp or Ancelotti now, when they were unattainable in the summer.

On a related now, I was thinking about the other options those two might have next summer and they don't really look great.

Barca - Martino will surely stay barring crazy circumstances.
Real - Benitez might not make it more than one season, but Ancelotti won't go back there and Madrid seems like a terrible fit for Klopp.
Juve - They need to turn it around in the league but Allegri probably has good job security given what the team accomplished last year.
Bayern - Guardiola's contract expires at the end of the year. Where else is going to go next summer though? Even if he leaves, Klopp would never go there, although Ancelotti might.
PSG - Blanc could get fired if they don't do better in the UCL. But Ancelotti won't go back and PSG doesn't seem like Klopp's type of club.
Chelsea - I still think it unlikely that Mourinho leaves.
Arsenal - Wenger is staying unless the team completely falls apart.
United - LVG will stay another year unless the team completely falls apart.
City - Pelligrini probably gets axed if City don't win the league or do much better in the CL. But they very well could do either.

I don't see a lot of great fits there in terms of top clubs. This could be a pretty good time for Liverpool to be shopping for a manager.

PedroSpecialK · Oct 5, 2015

https://twitter.com/BenSmithBBC/status/651108912335323136

bosox4283 · Oct 5, 2015

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Barca - Martino will surely stay barring crazy circumstances.

It's Luis Enrique at Barca. Either way, I agree with your point -- Klopp or Ancelotti wouldn't end up there.

JayMags71 · Oct 5, 2015

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Bayern - Guardiola's contract expires at the end of the year. Where else is going to go next summer though? Even if he leaves, Klopp would never go there, although Ancelotti might.

This contradicts everything I've read about Kopp. By all accounts, Bayern is his dream job. However, the rumor mill regarding Pep's status is all over the place. I've heard a.) he wants to extend his contract, b.) players aren't happy with his intense training regimen, and want him out, C.) Bayern's Chairman wants to wait until the Bundesliga's winter break to start contract talks.

The common thread in all of these stories, however, is that Klopp is ready to pounce if the job opens up.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Oct 5, 2015

JayMags71 said:
This contradicts everything I've read about Kopp. By all accounts, Bayern is his dream job. However, the rumor mill regarding Pep's status is all over the place. I've heard a.) he wants to extend his contract, b.) players aren't happy with his intense training regimen, and want him out, C.) Bayern's Chairman wants to wait until the Bundesliga's winter break to start contract talks.

The common thread in all of these stories, however, is that Klopp is ready to pounce if the job opens up.

I haven't been following this closely. I assumed that he had a strong enough relationship with BvB and its supporters that he wouldn't want to go to Bayern, but maybe I'm wrong.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Oct 5, 2015

bosox4283 said:
It's Luis Enrique at Barca. Either way, I agree with your point -- Klopp or Ancelotti wouldn't end up there.

Yikes, that was a brainfart. This is what happens when you try to post in like two minute intervals in between actual work.

Mighty Joe Young · Oct 5, 2015

PedroSpecialK said:
https://twitter.com/BenSmithBBC/status/651108912335323136

In other words he'd already agreed to a contract last week and they are are just doing this for PR purposes.

fletcherpost · Oct 5, 2015

DLew On Roids said:
You want a direct reply? Here's one: Eat my butt fudge.

LTF loves it, FWIW

As long as there's no hair.

teddykgb · Oct 5, 2015

It seems like there's momentum to this but I just can't wrap my head around why Klopp would take this job. Not trying to slight the Liverpll fans around here but there's a ton of work to be done at Anfield and it's a huge huge huge risk to his reputation to try to take this on. I think he's great but things got ugly at the end at BVB. He's like a German ( and more highly regarded) Rodgers and he just got run out of town. There's at least a decent chance the Pep to City stuff is true and Klopp would probably be a top candidate for that job...why on earth would he risk so much at Liverpool?

MiracleOfO2704 · Oct 5, 2015

teddykgb said:
It seems like there's momentum to this but I just can't wrap my head around why Klopp would take this job. Not trying to slight the Liverpll fans around here but there's a ton of work to be done at Anfield and it's a huge huge huge risk to his reputation to try to take this on. I think he's great but things got ugly at the end at BVB. He's like a German ( and more highly regarded) Rodgers and he just got run out of town. There's at least a decent chance the Pep to City stuff is true and Klopp would probably be a top candidate for that job...why on earth would he risk so much at Liverpool?

How much is he really risking if everyone knows it's a big build? If he can't do it, FSG gave him a broken club with no hope, and if he can, he's the German Shankly.

coremiller · Oct 6, 2015

teddykgb said:
It seems like there's momentum to this but I just can't wrap my head around why Klopp would take this job. Not trying to slight the Liverpll fans around here but there's a ton of work to be done at Anfield and it's a huge huge huge risk to his reputation to try to take this on. I think he's great but things got ugly at the end at BVB. He's like a German ( and more highly regarded) Rodgers and he just got run out of town. There's at least a decent chance the Pep to City stuff is true and Klopp would probably be a top candidate for that job...why on earth would he risk so much at Liverpool?

Not only this, but it must have been frustrating at Dortmund to have to sell your best players every summer to your biggest rivals. Why would he want to go to a club that's in the same position again, where even if he can build a great team Barca/Real/Bayern/City/Chelsea will just come in and poach the best players?

Schnerres · Oct 6, 2015

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
I haven't been following this closely. I assumed that he had a strong enough relationship with BvB and its supporters that he wouldn't want to go to Bayern, but maybe I'm wrong.

Bayern is getting more and more nervous each passing day without a new contract for Pep. They (i don´t know if it was Beckenbauer, Rummenigge or whoever) said that they need to think about a possible replacement, should they not sign an extension, soon. That was sure a pressure cooker for Pep to move in a direction, but nothing happened, so far. Klopp is seen as a possible replacement, was asked about this, Bayern was asked and then, Dortmund chief Watzke came out and said something like: Klopp and myself, we are friends, and even if he goes to Bayern (Watzke is sparring heavily in the press with Bayern, it looks like he hates them more than Schalke), we will stay friends. Why did he say that? I don´t know (friendship?), but at least Klopp can go there without a problem.

Now, maybe Klopp goes to Liverpool. If they are smart, they pick him. He can move the team in the right direction, he can drive them to the Champions League in the next seasons, he can develop young talent from their own youth teams (or bought talents aged 18-21). That´s a great combination, even more so, if you´re an outgoing media personality like Klopp.

teddykgb · Oct 6, 2015

DLew On Roids said:
Maybe he wants to show that clubs that aren't financially doping can still win things.

Atletico already proved this. Liverpool's only way back is going to be by spending, which is even stranger because is Henry really going to do that? How much of Liverpool's team would Klopp need to turn over to recreate the high pressing, frenetic system? The problems in the back line are pretty well understood but do Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Firmino, Sturridge sound like Klopp players? Hell, even Can or Henderson are probably not fleet of foot enough to play his system effectively.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Oct 6, 2015

teddykgb said:
Atletico already proved this. Liverpool's only way back is going to be by spending, which is even stranger because is Henry really going to do that? How much of Liverpool's team would Klopp need to turn over to recreate the high pressing, frenetic system? The problems in the back line are pretty well understood but do Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Firmino, Sturridge sound like Klopp players? Hell, even Can or Henderson are probably not fleet of foot enough to play his system effectively.

Liverpool under Rodgers has been one of the better pressing teams in the Premier League. Especially during the 13-14 run, their tactics were probably the closest thing to gegenpressen that England has seen.

I think Klopp would have to move a bunch of players that aren't suited for the style or just don't have the requisite talent. But I can see Sturridge being a good CF in this system (he certainly has the pace to be lethal on the counter and I don't think he's any worse than Lewandowski in terms of defensive contribution), Coutinho being a fine #10 (like Kagawa and Gotze after him, this player doesn't need to be great defensively, he just needs to follow the system and then be dynamic in transition play after you get a turnover), Henderson or Can playing as a defensive midfielder, and Milner being at least an effective squad player in midfield or on the wing. Ings is probably a good player for this system too - another guy who will run his ass off and do what he's told tactically.

Beyond the defense, what they are missing is a ball playing box-to-box midfielder (like Sahin or Gundogan) that can be really good in transition play and a dynamic offensive winger. Those are two huge pieces so that's a big problem but its not like he would be starting totally from scratch.

Sterling could have been a really good Klopp player.

JayMags71 · Oct 6, 2015

Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Beyond the defense, what they are missing is a ball playing box-to-box midfielder (like Sahin or Gundogan) that can be really good in transition play and a dynamic offensive winger. Those are two huge pieces so that's a big problem but its not like he would be starting totally from scratch..

Weird that a player LFC doesn't have a player like Nuri Sahin already.

WayBackVazquez · Oct 6, 2015

teddykgb said:
Atletico already proved this. Liverpool's only way back is going to be by spending, which is even stranger because is Henry really going to do that? How much of Liverpool's team would Klopp need to turn over to recreate the high pressing, frenetic system? The problems in the back line are pretty well understood but do Coutinho, Lallana, Lucas, Firmino, Sturridge sound like Klopp players? Hell, even Can or Henderson are probably not fleet of foot enough to play his system effectively.

Sure, why not? He's expanding Anfield, opening London offices seeking new sponsors, etc. Revenues will increase, so he'll spend more while still increasing profits. The franchise is still extremely marketable worldwide, a lot of money has been left on the table up to now.

ehaz · Oct 7, 2015

Morgan said:
Beyond the defense, what they are missing is a ball playing box-to-box midfielder (like Sahin or Gundogan) that can be really good in transition play and a dynamic offensive winger. Those are two huge pieces so that's a big problem but its not like he would be starting totally from scratch.

Sterling could have been a really good Klopp player.

I wonder if Klopp will attempt to recall Markovic, one of the few real explosive wingers in the organization. I could see Sturridge working on the right wing position as well with Benteke (who Klopp almost bought) as the center forward. Sturridge wouldn't be asked to stretch the field all the way to the line (just as Reus never really did) and would be able to cut inside on his left. Klopp's wingers never really functioned as traditional wingers widening the pitch in that sense as his tactics had offensive players play defense by pressing in close "packs" just as they countered and attacked in packs.

We might see a threesome of coutinho (left) firmino (center) Sturridge (right) in behind Benteke/Ings.

teddykgb · Oct 7, 2015

ehaz said:
I wonder if Klopp will attempt to recall Markovic, one of the few real explosive wingers in the organization. I could see Sturridge working on the right wing position as well with Benteke (who Klopp almost bought) as the center forward. Sturridge wouldn't be asked to stretch the field all the way to the line (just as Reus never really did) and would be able to cut inside on his left. Klopp's wingers never really functioned as traditional wingers widening the pitch in that sense as his tactics had offensive players play defense by pressing in close "packs" just as they countered and attacked in packs.

We might see a threesome of coutinho (left) firmino (center) Sturridge (right) in behind Benteke/Ings.

Man I just don't see this at all. Kind of responding to Morgan's post earlier as well....these players are not the high energy run forever kind of players Klopp requires. While nobody would accuse Reus, Gotze, Lewadowski of being defensive stalwarts, when Dortmund were doing their thing they were covering insane distances per match, pressing from the front and then also coming deep to get the ball and counter attack. Coutinho, Firmino, Sturridge trying to recreate that? IMO, no way that works.

The CMs need to be everywhere, Milner is probably the first name on Klopp's team sheet if he goes there. Then at FB while I like Clyne as a player Blascyzkowski (god knows if i got even close on the spelling) was a converted winger who got up and down his flank like crazy which allowed his winger to tuck inside. Which is great in attack but it takes someone with a relentless engine to still get back and cover and do your FB responsibilities. Can Clyne really do that? Lord knows there's no ball playing CB at Liverpool either.

Liverpool spent nearly 300 million pounds under Rodgers and they'd probably have to double that under Klopp to have a team that contends. I suppose the one thing I honestly don't know and Klopp does have a good record by is his inclusion of youth. Perhaps there are a few Liverpool youngsters who will be immediately promoted to provide the energy the side requires to play his system, but I still think it'd be nearly a complete retooling of the roster.

The one thing i don

JayMags71 · Oct 7, 2015

teddykgb said:
The one thing i don

(Thud)

Head of NASA: Where'd you get that thing?
NASA Assistant: Sent away.

teddykgb · Oct 7, 2015

DLew On Roids said:
As for whether the current squad is a good fit for Klopp, I don't see how that's something one can say straight away. Klopp's teams have played a style that requires a uniquely high workrate and fitness level, and he gets them there through uniquely powerful personal relationships with his players. His former players at Dortmund have lined up this week to talk about what an amazing coach he is. More likely than not, some players will buy in and stay, while others will decide he's not worth the time and move on. There's also the clutch-the-pearls possibility that Klopp will adapt his approach to suit the squad and its opponents.

I like the Klopp approach because they're doing something different. They don't have the revenue of Old Trafford or the Emirates and they don't have the owners to engage in financial doping, so they have to go the Tampa Bay Rays route. If he crashes and burns, they'll finish 12th or something. I'm fine with that as long as they're shooting for the moon. Insert Danny Blanchflower quote here.

Oh yeah, definitely, and I should have said that. If Liverpool can get Klopp they absolutely must. I was coming to this from a perspective of wondering why he'd be interested in the job, but it's a tremendous coup for Liverpool if they can get him and if they have to turn over the entire damn roster they probably should.

ehaz · Oct 7, 2015

teddykgb said:
Man I just don't see this at all. Kind of responding to Morgan's post earlier as well....these players are not the high energy run forever kind of players Klopp requires. While nobody would accuse Reus, Gotze, Lewadowski of being defensive stalwarts, when Dortmund were doing their thing they were covering insane distances per match, pressing from the front and then also coming deep to get the ball and counter attack. Coutinho, Firmino, Sturridge trying to recreate that? IMO, no way that works.

The CMs need to be everywhere, Milner is probably the first name on Klopp's team sheet if he goes there. Then at FB while I like Clyne as a player Blascyzkowski (god knows if i got even close on the spelling) was a converted winger who got up and down his flank like crazy which allowed his winger to tuck inside. Which is great in attack but it takes someone with a relentless engine to still get back and cover and do your FB responsibilities. Can Clyne really do that? Lord knows there's no ball playing CB at Liverpool either.

Liverpool spent nearly 300 million pounds under Rodgers and they'd probably have to double that under Klopp to have a team that contends. I suppose the one thing I honestly don't know and Klopp does have a good record by is his inclusion of youth. Perhaps there are a few Liverpool youngsters who will be immediately promoted to provide the energy the side requires to play his system, but I still think it'd be nearly a complete retooling of the roster.

Firmino sounds perfect given the way he played in the Bundesliga for someone playing the CAM position in behind the striker. Coutinho pressed pretty well too and while he's not Milner, I don't see why he'd be any worse at tracking back than say Aubameyang or Reus. And yeah, Sturridge on the right would require some extreme adjustment or imagination and may just be unrealistic but I don't think this squad is too far off in terms of personnel. Milner could play the right attacking mid spot and would be perfect there in Klopp's system if two of Allen/Henderson/Can are put in the defensive midfield pair.

Jeff Van GULLY · Oct 8, 2015

https://twitter.com/BenSmithBBC/status/652120360775774208

@BenSmithBBC
Jurgen Klopp has agreed a 3-year deal to become the new #LFC manager. Will sign his deal when he arrives in the city later

:fap-to-this:

dirtynine · Oct 8, 2015

Bosoxen · Oct 8, 2015

Finally! I kept seeing new posts in this thread and getting disappointed it was DLew talking about people eating his butt fudge. Nice to see the news I've been looking for finally showed up.

I shall now show up to work tomorrow sans pants.

JayMags71 · Oct 8, 2015

I'll just leave this right here:

soxfan121 said:
Why, exactly, do some of you think JKlo or CarAn would be interested in not coaching in the Champions League? Admittedly, I'm not an Anfie fanatic, but I think some of y'all are delusional to think you have a chance at world class managers who can have any job in the world, at any CL contender. Further, I think you're being way too hard on BRod, who's done an admirable job adding young, potentially world class talent to a team that before BRodge's arrival had basically none, other than an aging StGerr.

BrenRod is building something, and calls for his head after a road loss to another contender is silly. SFiC and Zmp are right about the situation, and y'all really should give BdanRo a bit more credit for having a plan, and not the healthy players to execute it.

JuKlopp and Eyebrow ain't happening, and thinking it might is unrealistic. Lay off BrRodg.

Seven Costanza · Oct 8, 2015

DLew On Roids said:
I like the Klopp approach because they're doing something different. They don't have the revenue of Old Trafford or the Emirates and they don't have the owners to engage in financial doping, so they have to go the Tampa Bay Rays route. If he crashes and burns, they'll finish 12th or something. I'm fine with that as long as they're shooting for the moon. Insert Danny Blanchflower quote here.

Where are we getting the whole 'poor Liverpool' thing?

Zososoxfan · Oct 8, 2015

This a great get. Congrats to you guys. Excited to see what a bona fide star manager can bring to Liverpool.

blueguitar322 · Oct 8, 2015

Yeah, congrats to Liverpool. Klopp is a great hire. If someone other than Arsenal has to win the title, I'd much rather it be you guys than City, Chelsea or especially United. The league is just more fun when Liverpool are strong.

Away games to Chelsea and City will be a nice trial by fire. Hope you guys take 6 points.

SoxFanInCali · Oct 8, 2015

#LFC confirm a press conference will be held 10am on Friday for a major club announcement http://t.co/Q5KynqtFKC pic.twitter.com/jn0eBwWntx
— Liverpool FC (@LFC) October 8, 2015

Dummy Hoy · Oct 8, 2015

Seven Costanza said:
Where are we getting the whole 'poor Liverpool' thing?

How else to explain the decline from atop England? They remain true and pure, fighting against the oppressive fascism of capitalism. More than Just a club. Right?

Distaste for Liverpool aside, I'm actually pretty excited about this- it will be fun to watch Klopp in the PL. And I've said all along that Liverpool would be a great fit for Klopp and vice versa; all snark aside, both manager and club see football as more than just a profession or entertainment. I think it will work well for both sides. Of course with the dire lack of resources at Liverpool Football Club...

Seven Costanza · Oct 8, 2015

"Within the the top 20 I have culled what I refer to as the Super Six–Barcelona, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United,Real Madrid–the only teams that rank in the top 10 in four crucial areas: social media following, matchday revenue, broadcasting revenue and commercial revenue. These teams have created a large, global following and have figured out how to monetize it."

I just find the comparison to the Tampa Bay Rays a bit disingenuous, that's all.

Nice job beating the drum on the Superfan bit. That really hurts.

Seven Costanza · Oct 8, 2015

I should add I think the appointment of Klopp is a great move and I think he'll do well in England. Based on what little I know of him, it seems like he'll be a good fit for the club and their supporters.

Morgan's Magic Snowplow · Oct 8, 2015

Great move for Liverpool.

I think they have pretty legitimate shot at Top 4 this season. Although I'd love to see it happen, I have a hard time envisioning Palace, West Ham, or Leicester keeping pace over the long run. So, in relation to the more likely long run Top 4 contenders, Liverpool are just one point behind Everton and Spurs and, most critically, four points ahead of Chelsea. They also have a wacky fixture list in which they play all the most likely Top 4 contenders - Arsenal, United, Everton, Spurs, City, and Chelsea - away in the first half of the season and all of them at Anfield in the second half.

The upcoming fixture list is absolutely brutal (@Spurs, Soton, @Chelsea, Palace, @City) but if Klopp can take 7-8 points during that stretch - likely losing ground in the short term but hanging around - then they'll be very well positioned to go on a run afterward.

cjdmadcow · Oct 8, 2015

[twitter]@LFC[/twitter]

It's official.

SoxFanInCali · Oct 8, 2015

We heard the news today, oh boy! All the best at The Kop, Jürgen Klopp! All the best at @LFC! #klopplfc pic.twitter.com/2vAvY4Hc4F
— Borussia Dortmund (@BVB) October 8, 2015

JayMags71 · Oct 8, 2015

https://twitter.com/lfc/status/652214132880510976

singaporesoxfan · Oct 8, 2015

SoxFanInCali said:
We heard the news today, oh boy! All the best at The Kop, Jürgen Klopp! All the best at @LFC! #klopplfc pic.twitter.com/2vAvY4Hc4F
— Borussia Dortmund (@BVB) October 8, 2015

SoxFanInCali · Oct 8, 2015

singaporesoxfan said:
Abbey Road is in NW8, not Liverpool

Don't tell me, tell the Dortmund social media coordinator.

SoxFanInCali · Oct 8, 2015

Destiny? How Jürgen Klopp took in Anfield when he visited with Borussia Dortmund last year… #KloppLFC
https://t.co/wKRXv4yEC3
— Liverpool FC (@LFC) October 8, 2015

PedroSpecialK · Oct 8, 2015

:fap:

Liverpool 2015-16: We Didn't Want To Play in Europe Anyway

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has the rich, deep voice of a god

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Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa