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Kraft Charged with Soliciting

Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by Hoya81, Feb 22, 2019.

  1. dcmissle

    dcmissle Deflatigator Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Not at all relevant IMO. He’s not getting acquitted. But the legal risk is the smallest part of this. He has not been charged with a felony; the penalties have a low ceiling.
     
  2. Gash Prex

    Gash Prex Member SoSH Member

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    Higher penalty than Eddie Jr? Over a misdemeanor that usually has no jail time - for a person with no criminal record? GTFO
     
  3. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    Why are you looking to Barstool for any type of moral or legal framework?
     
  4. jose melendez

    jose melendez Earl of Acie Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Because it came up on my facebook feed, duh.
     
  5. Smiling Joe Hesketh

    Smiling Joe Hesketh All Hail King Boron Dope

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    Well that changes EVERYTHING.
     
  6. Van Everyman

    Van Everyman Member SoSH Member

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    Between Goodell’s fragile ego, the owners’ rank jealousy of Kraft and the league’s desperation to have some kind of win for a demographic they supposedly care about, there are a lot of things that suggest the NFL will issue anything anything but a measured response.

    What is more interesting to me is whether the Kraft Scandal Playbook changes. Bob Kraft is a conciliator at his core, not a zero sum game guy. This has always been his approach, and for the most part it’s been very successful for him whether in business (where he has a reputation for being effective but not a win-at-all-costs shark), in politics (where he can support people like Trump publicly but push back in private) and certainly as an owner.

    Indeed, in the latter, when the integrity of his coach and QB have been attacked (in Spygate and Deflategate respectively), Kraft has put up a mild fight in public before going along with the league’s ruling and mending fences behind closed doors. In all of these instances, he's believed that trying to get along with everybody and working with people behind closed doors to heal divisions is the way you move forward.

    With this, however, Kraft’s own integrity is at stake – and potentially his ownership as well. It may well be a zero sum game – and there may not be a path forward. All of which is to suggest that what’s worked for him in the past won’t here. Which may well be why he’s fighting the substance of the charges themselves.

    I suspect over the next few weeks we are going to learn whether Bob Kraft has lost his fastball at 77 or found another gear.
     
  7. soxhop411

    soxhop411 Member SoSH Member

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  8. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Yeah. While ownership may be "reeling" I seriously doubt that *this* is what causes the team to suddenly fall apart. I mean, my god, they have had a murderer on team, Spygate shit, Brady getting suspended, the drama with benching of Butler etc. They'll be fine.
     
  9. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Never change media.

    We've gone from sex trafficking to the case not being rock solid.
     
  10. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    Kraft certainly intends to defend himself as far any excessive NFL discipline goes. That's the real reason he's hired the legal bigwigs.

    The NY Post isn't exactly wrong; there have been a lot of questions about this raid. Kraft still likely gets hit with something in court, but it will be far less than the max sentence. As noted many times, this case will never see a jury.

    With the NFL, Kraft would accept a fine and probably even a suspension. He and his lawyers will make some noise about his innocence. In the unlikely event of a loss of draft picks, there will probably be some furrowed brows and another "Florida in context" web site, but probably nothing further. But Kraft will go nuclear if the league tries to pull the franchise from him, and will be on solid ground to do so. Unlike Brady's and the NFLPA's, Kraft's legal team can go head to head with the league's, and the threat of discovery is real.
     
  11. Bowhemian

    Bowhemian Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, about that...
    I know it's Kraft and the Patriots, but come on. That is ludicrous to even discuss.
     
  12. joe dokes

    joe dokes Member SoSH Member

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    It wont see a jury because he requested a bench trial. He wont get the max sentence because I'd guess that not a single first-time prostitute-hirer EVER got the max sentence.

    Pull the franchise? C'mon man. o_O
     
  13. lexrageorge

    lexrageorge Member SoSH Member

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    I was (over)reacting to a post above that quoted an article that hinted that the NFL could come down hard on Kraft. I agree that there is zero chance the NFL attempts to force Kraft out. Move along....
     
  14. Jimbodandy

    Jimbodandy Member SoSH Member

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    We need to stop encouraging the tomfoolery. They didn't make Al Fucking Davis sell the team, and he sued them.
     
  15. pappymojo

    pappymojo Member SoSH Member

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  16. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    The NFL might want to set the "sell the team" bar a little higher than a BJ from a massage gone wrong.

    Just in case.
     
  17. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Of course you’re correct, but whether they were trafficked seemed to many to have relevance to the outcome from a Shield perspective. If you read through the thread there’s a fair amount of thought that:

    1) these women were obviously trafficked;
    2) Kraft had to know they were trafficked;
    3) his actions (if not the literal crime) were worse because the women were trafficked and he had to know this;
    4) because this wasn’t a simple sex for money case but a human trafficking case there was going to be a much stronger reaction from the NFL.
     
  18. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    Yeah, I’m not disputing that. But how does the trafficking / not trafficking come up in court if the prosecutor doesn’t make that accusation as part of the narrative against Kraft? Seems like a very awkward defense. That’s my point. Sorry if it wasn’t clear.
     
  19. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    He’s saying that it’s a defense w/r/t the league, not a legal defense against a solicitation charge.

    Things don’t look as bad for Kraft, generally, if the woman he got a blowjob from was not a sex-slave, correct?

    Edit: Lots of negatives. He’d look worse if he got a blowjob from a sex slave, right?
     
  20. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    Okay. I thought this whole sub-thread started with someone saying Kraft has incentive to play this out legally, and then it morphed to where we are now. Hence the confusion :)
     
  21. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    No problem. “The Shield” was sort of a slightly oblique reference that was his signal that he was talking about a different forum.
     
  22. djbayko

    djbayko Member SoSH Member

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    Yes, that part was obvious.

    On a related note, I agree with the majority here that they won't try to push Kraft out of ownership. However, I do think we need to be mindful that our track record on this sort of prognostication is pretty terrible. The overwhelming consensus here was that the Wells Report was going to exonerate Brady. Of course it was because science. That was after 4 Lombardi Trophies. We now sit at 6. Enough is enough, amirite?

    Let's not underestimate the league's disdain (jealousy) of the Patriots. I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that at least 9 of 10 owners have paid for a hand job or more within the past year. But that doesn't matter. They smell blood in the water. They might not take his team away from him, but the punishment is going to be severe unless he somehow clears his name.
     
  23. LoweTek

    LoweTek Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    So what if the primary basis for the granting of the warrant to place the cameras was suspicion of trafficking and it turns out there was no trafficking? If the only evidence used to obtain the warrant was a trafficking investigation based on a suspicious Health Department inspector leaping to the conclusion when women reside in the spa they are doing so because they are prisoners when the usual case is because they want to save rent money?

    Warrant gets tossed, ergo no evidence, therefore a dismissal.

    There have been many busts around here over the years of Asian and other operations providing similar services. They have always been the result of undercover work. If law enforcement could obtain a video surveillance warrant purely for solicitation based on a few weak traffic stop confessions, they would have done it by now and frequently. I'm guessing surveillance warrants for misdemeanors aren't usually granted.

    Bets on all of this getting thrown out when the warrant is declared invalid for purposes of solicitation charges because it was obtained based on the non-existent trafficking probable cause?
     
  24. Myt1

    Myt1 the FRESH maker Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    That’s generally not how this works. Either the evidence was sufficient for the warrant or not, regardless of the ultimate outcome of the search.

    $50 to the Jimmy Fund?
     
    #974 Myt1, Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
  25. axx

    axx lurker

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    IIRC they got evidence of prostitution before the warrant by dumpster diving. Soiled napkins and towels and such.
     
  26. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    I think LoweTek is arguing for a strict interpretation of the Tug Rule.
     
  27. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    That's evidence of sex and/or masturbation, not prostitution.
     
  28. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    So you’re saying that they blew the call?
     
  29. axx

    axx lurker

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    True. But they dumpster dove because (IIRC) they saw a Spa staff member throw it out. And you are not using it as evidence of a crime; just as part of the argument to get the warrant.

    The big benefit of using video as opposed to undercover is that it avoids any entrapment claims, I would think.
     
  30. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Or they leaked the charges too soon?
     
  31. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    You mean prematurely?
     
  32. Doug Beerabelli

    Doug Beerabelli Killer Threads Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Yes. And I think the police had a hand in that.
     
  33. bankshot1

    bankshot1 Member SoSH Member

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    Hand was clearly moving forward and then balls came out.
     
  34. Ale Xander

    Ale Xander Member SoSH Member

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    I kind of feel this thread should be in P&G not an open forum.
     
  35. Bowhemian

    Bowhemian Member SoSH Member

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    They had a lot of cleaning up to do
     
  36. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Stop yankin’ my chain.
     
  37. MuppetAsteriskTalk

    MuppetAsteriskTalk lurker

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    And leave this forum with blue balls?
     
  38. Jnai

    Jnai is not worried about sex with goats SoSH Member

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    I have no idea if you're a lawyer, so if this is pedantic and shitty, I apologize, but: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Leon

    More or less, if the police go and get a warrant, and search on that warrant, it doesn't matter if it was all a big misunderstanding at the top. In Leon, the warrant was later found to be invalid. Didn't matter.
     
  39. Papelbon's Poutine

    Papelbon's Poutine Homeland Security SoSH Member

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    I’m not a lawyer nor am I any kind of legal expertise but my understating was always that they present ‘sufficient evidence’ to a judge to get a warrant and then after that it’s fair game if approved. But there’s plenty of people here to correct me, simply going off what I’ve heard from lawyer/Leo friends.
     
  40. singaporesoxfan

    singaporesoxfan Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Because of the pun setting and gutter balls humour?
     
  41. InstaFace

    InstaFace MDLzera

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    You're betting against a guy whose knowledge of procedure appears to derive chiefly from Law and Order. It's not even sporting.
     
  42. splendid splinter

    splendid splinter Member SoSH Member

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  43. PedroKsBambino

    PedroKsBambino Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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  44. Rovin Romine

    Rovin Romine Johnny Rico Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Not much.

    Look, either the video is suppressible or it's not. If it's not suppressed, it's coming in. Even if Kraft wanted to stipulate to everything on the video, the prosecution still has the option of submitting the evidence they think is best to the jury.

    The main grounds for suppression are usually that the police lied (or illegally gathered information) to obtain the warrant. The analysis of that is moderately complex and fact intensive. But to cut to the chase, it appears that there was prostitution happening at the spa.
     
  45. maufman

    maufman Anderson Cooper x Mr. Rogers Staff Member Dope Gold Supporter

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    I agree with @PedroKsBambino and @Rovin Romine here.

    There’s a world of difference between evidence that’s seized pursuant to a search warrant and evidence that’s seized without a warrant. 99% of the cases that you read about where evidence is excluded involve a warrantless search. Evidence seized pursuant to a search warrant is excludable only in very narrow circumstances, usually involving bad faith on the part of the police.
     
  46. Marciano490

    Marciano490 Urological Expert SoSH Member

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    Are they gonna grab Kraft’s dna off those towels?
     
  47. nighthob

    nighthob Member SoSH Member

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    Better than testing the hands of the masseuses for discharge residue.
     
  48. Omar's Wacky Neighbor

    Omar's Wacky Neighbor Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    Beats using Picket Fences.
     
  49. Devizier

    Devizier Member SoSH Member

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    That, my friends, is a thankless motherfucking job
     
  50. Sausage in Section 17

    Sausage in Section 17 Poker Champ SoSH Member

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    Well it’s not like any of the masseuses have people lining up to shake their hands....
     

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