Yup. Shocking...
It's officially an albatross contract. Now, we're just trying to salvage any value we can. Sucks. I'll be keeping a close eye on the Spurs and Dejounte.Yeah, the “move Kemba if at all possible” position doesn’t look so crazy now, does it.
3 more years...
Except that the "if at all possible" was basically not going to come to fruition this offseason. Ainge was never going to give up assets to trade Kemba, as there is no way Ainge would deliberately worsen a playoff contending team. Better to deal with the bad contract than a team that goes out early in the playoffs.Yeah, the “move Kemba if at all possible” position doesn’t look so crazy now, does it.
3 more years...
Yeah, we’ll never know what offers were out there. If there was even neutral value, I think holding him will look quite bad. But yes, we never know, and maybe stem cells can work some magic.Except that the "if at all possible" was basically not going to come to fruition this offseason. Ainge was never going to give up assets to trade Kemba, as there is no way Ainge would deliberately worsen a playoff contending team. Better to deal with the bad contract than a team that goes out early in the playoffs.
Hasn't Westbrook had his knees scoped at least a half-dozen times?I think it's way too early to tell how concerned we should be about Walker.
It sounds like this is a menicus related issue, and honestly the NBA is littered with guys who have come back from meniscal issues (Chris Paul, Jimmy Butler, late period Rose, etc,).
If this were a normal offseason his timeline would put him back before pre-season even started. Now, maybe his knee is in bad shape and he becomes an albatross contract, but it's just as likely that his knee is essentially fine and we get the normal decline of a player into his 30s.
Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Still pessimistic, but even a high-quality 6th man through the life of the deal would salvage some value.I think it's way too early to tell how concerned we should be about Walker.
It sounds like this is a menicus related issue, and honestly the NBA is littered with guys who have come back from meniscal issues (Chris Paul, Jimmy Butler, late period Rose, etc,).
If this were a normal offseason his timeline would put him back before pre-season even started. Now, maybe his knee is in bad shape and he becomes an albatross contract, but it's just as likely that his knee is essentially fine and we get the normal decline of a player into his 30s.
Yeah, he tore his meniscus in the game where Beverley took out his knee, and has had a number of cleanup surgeries over the years since.Hasn't Westbrook had his knees scoped at least a half-dozen times?
I'm not as unconcerned as I would be if it were just a normal "oh meniscus tear cleanup" of which Kemba has already had one. The Stem cell thing makes me wonder if it's getting real thin in there.Thanks for talking me off the ledge. Still pessimistic, but even a high-quality 6th man through the life of the deal would salvage some value.
Yea, it was a concern when they signed him. I doubt it's a minor thing. We've already seen 5 months off, then careful management with fewer minutes in reg season bubble. The playoffs started and we got 7 good games then crater.I think there is plenty of reason to think that this could just be a minor thing that is part of your standard decline curve, and giving it plenty of time, and managing it well gets you maybe fewer minutes of Kemba, but a high quality in those minutes.
We know that he had knee issues in Charlotte from west and tear. Clifford used to plead with him to sit games out but he refused. This is typically what happens with small guards once the wear and tear accumulates. When you compare the reduced training to the age there is nearly always the loss of first step which is critical for a player like Kemba to get off his shot. This isn’t even addressing the defensive issues. Now we know why Teague was brought on board as much for insurance with the first unit as it was to upgrade Wanamaker.I think it's way too early to tell how concerned we should be about Walker.
It sounds like this is a menicus related issue, and honestly the NBA is littered with guys who have come back from meniscal issues (Chris Paul, Jimmy Butler, late period Rose, etc,).
If this were a normal offseason his timeline would put him back before pre-season even started. Now, maybe his knee is in bad shape and he becomes an albatross contract, but it's just as likely that his knee is essentially fine and we get the normal decline of a player into his 30s.
He wasn't great, but he definitely didn't crater. He shot (from three) terribly in almost every game in the TOR series, but ended + 54. His poor shooting continued in game 1 of MIA series, but shot 40% in the remaining games, and was + 4 for the series.Yea, it was a concern when they signed him. I doubt it's a minor thing. We've already seen 5 months off, then careful management with fewer minutes in reg season bubble. The playoffs started and we got 7 good games then crater.
Ok, he couldn't penetrate the zone and shot the 3 poorly the last 10 games. He clearly lost a step.He wasn't great, but he definitely didn't crater. He shot (from three) terribly in almost every game in the TOR series, but ended + 54. His poor shooting continued in game 1 of MIA series, but shot 40% in the remaining games, and was + 4 for the series.
MIA played really fucking good defense. The zone gobbled him up, and you would hope your lead PG could create more, but sometimes series or games just go wrong.
I don't think anyone is panicking but the contract will be a problem for luxury tax reasons for the next 3 years, especially once Tatum's monster deal kicks in. It is what it is. My guess is Wyc and Co are comfortable paying some big bills as they chase that elusive #18 so there may not be much of a practical impact.The contract is what it is. The Celtics have a lot of high-end talent on the team aside from Kemba. If he only ended up being a 20 min a night guy who provided scoring spark and leadership, would that make his contract "worth it"? No, but could the Celtics be a highly successful team with that formula? I believe yes they could. Especially if Teague is solid and Pritchard comes along. There are some nice pieces in place on this team.
Wow. To get that response from Ainge it must be even worse that I thought and I am pretty pessimistic about his knee. How can you read that without thinking this may jeopardize his future in the league?
Yeah it's a pretty sobering statement.Wow. To get that response from Ainge it must be even worse that I thought and I am pretty pessimistic about his knee. How can you read that without thinking this may jeopardize his future in the league?
All of this is true.Assuming Brown and Tatum continue to make "the leap", the Celtics can certainly live with a reduced role for Kemba, and can just as easily live with his defensive deficiencies (still unlikely to be worse than Kyrie going forward, who's also had lingering knee issues). No team has plus defenders at all 5 spots all the time; Lakers won the title with Rondo.
Payroll efficiency is much less of an issue with Hayward's contract off the books and a tax reset coming.
Good point actually. If last season had ended when it normally does, and Kemba had this procedure done, he'd almost certainly have been ready for the start of this coming season. But it's a wicked short turnaround and that means Kemba is going to miss some time at the start.Brad seems less concerned:
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1333813790312439810
The glass half full option is that Nesmith will get plenty of developmental time early in the year to see what he can do defensively. This is definitely a going to be a bridge year, though. And they might need to be looking around for another combo guard to spend part of the TPE on as Walker is apparently entering the 6th man phase of his career.I'd expect happy talk from Brad/Danny/Kemba/teammates in regards to Kemba's health. Hope for the best and all.
I do like the optimism from Brad about young guys getting "opportunities". No need to view this as "giving up" on 2020-21. Let's find out who is going to compliment the Jays best this season and years to come.
while skeptical of Kemba of old reappearing for more than a few weeks at a time. I'm ridiculously bullish on Tatum/Brown's development, they are probably too good to even entertain a bridge year. By the time the playoffs roll around, they'll be even more dominant.The glass half full option is that Nesmith will get plenty of developmental time early in the year to see what he can do defensively. This is definitely a going to be a bridge year, though. And they might need to be looking around for another combo guard to spend part of the TPE on as Walker is apparently entering the 6th man phase of his career.
The team made the ECF with no Hayward, limited Kemba, and a worse center rotation than now. If Tatum and Brown improve, any young guy can step up, and they fill in some gap with the TPE, they could weather Kemba’s albatross, as crazy as that is.while skeptical of Kemba of old reappearing for more than a few weeks at a time. I'm ridiculously bullish on Tatum/Brown's development, they are probably too good to even entertain a bridge year. By the time the playoffs roll around, they'll be even more dominant.
That's what I mean by bridge year. This year is about throwing the Jay-Crew into the fire and them stepping up and dominating. For the first three years of his career the Celtics have protected Tatum from that sort of usage rate. And Walker was brought in to be the closer to give Jayson time to grow into the role. Well, the time's up. Jayson is going to be tasked with carrying the offense on his back, closing games, and being dominant defensively.while skeptical of Kemba of old reappearing for more than a few weeks at a time. I'm ridiculously bullish on Tatum/Brown's development, they are probably too good to even entertain a bridge year. By the time the playoffs roll around, they'll be even more dominant.
This is exactly right, They probably would have beaten the HEAT with Hayward and Kemba near 100% The core is pretty solid and TT and Teague give them veteran depth. I hope the young guys from the recent draft classes get some serious PT to see what they can do and IF they can contribute meaningfully in the post-season. While I wish Kemba was good to go, I'm psyched about this iteration and what it may be able to do.The team made the ECF with no Hayward, limited Kemba, and a worse center rotation than now. If Tatum and Brown improve, any young guy can step up, and they fill in some gap with the TPE, they could weather Kemba’s albatross, as crazy as that is.
my Theo Bridge Year reflex kicked in.That's what I mean by bridge year. This year is about throwing the Jay-Crew into the fire and them stepping up and dominating. For the first three years of his career the Celtics have protected Tatum from that sort of usage rate. And Walker was brought in to be the closer to give Jayson time to grow into the role. Well, the time's up. Jayson is going to be tasked with carrying the offense on his back, closing games, and being dominant defensively.
And there will be growing pains. Because Smart's going to be asked to be a scorer for the first time in his career, Jaylen's going to be required to improve his playmaking, and Jayson charged with becoming Kawhi v2.0. I have the most faith in that last part coming to fruition. And I agree that by the time the playoffs roll around that the Jay-Crew is going to run rampant (and I wish that they'd drafted Jayden Scrubb just so that they could have had a complete set). By the time the regular season ends even the Port Cellar will have to admit that Jayson's an MVP candidate.
Kobe, I think Steph as wellAny stem cell injection to the knee success stories out there? I'm glad they're at least doing something medically because it sounded like there weren't any treatment options for whatever is going on in there.
Pau Gasol has one of his best seasons in his mid-30’s a year or two following his stem cell. Not sure how this relates as a big compared to a tiny though.Any stem cell injection to the knee success stories out there? I'm glad they're at least doing something medically because it sounded like there weren't any treatment options for whatever is going on in there.
Yeah, that one stings a lot. Many were lamenting that performance right after it happened.Stupid all-star game.
FTFYYeah, that one stings a lot. Many were lamenting that performance rightafteras it happened.
Stupid all-star game.
Given the type of injury it was, had it not manifested itself at the All Star game, it would have manifested itself a few games later.Yeah, that one stings a lot. Many were lamenting that performance right after it happened.
Yeah, this. The ASG had pretty much nothing to do with his current condition.Given the type of injury it was, had it not manifested itself at the All Star game, it would have manifested itself a few games later.