I think he's taking extra dribbles too, which is a small but crucial change. I think we all fondly remember him as a rookie swooping in from the lane and finishing, but as defenders figured it out, it became very easy to block or defender. You really didn't see that many instances where he would take those extra dribbles, get nice and close, and still use that range to find blue sky, whether it's an up and under, reverse, whatever.Also, in last nights game Tatum was finishing at the hoop with great efficiency. I wonder how much the threat of a step back helps him there. Mostly though it looks like he’s hiding the ball better.
I think this might also be (beyond both of them putting in the off season hours on their handle) a by-product of the seal set. As they've both learned to exploit the set, they've gotten comfortable with putting defenders behind them (in jail?), change the pace of their penetration, and generally be more comfortable dribbling in traffic. That confidence (and calmness) is allowing them to appraise the situation for the opportunities you mention.I think he's taking extra dribbles too, which is a small but crucial change. I think we all fondly remember him as a rookie swooping in from the lane and finishing, but as defenders figured it out, it became very easy to block or defender. You really didn't see that many instances where he would take those extra dribbles, get nice and close, and still use that range to find blue sky, whether it's an up and under, reverse, whatever.
By the way, Jaylen has also mastered the same thing this year except he is more likely to do it with his strength and quick leaping to clear space.
Very impressive when both of them spent a lot of time missing more layups than it seemed like they should be missing earlier in their careers.
Good call out. It definitely helped. The chemistry is off the charts.I agree 100%. The extended preseason and team building experience for Smart, Kemba, Brown and Tatum in China was a boon for the team. I think there was discussion around this in another thread. Maybe the FIBA World Cup or the offseason thread. Anyway, this team seems to be closer knit by a mile than last year and the time together in China played a big part in that.
A lot of it is just potential turning into skill. The great thing is, Jaylen and Jayson still have a few more years of serious growth.Good call out. It definitely helped. The chemistry is off the charts.
Addition by subtraction isn't the only factor here, though it is also real.
Yeah, I made this point a few days ago: when you watch last year’s playoffs, Tatum was already becoming who he is on off-ball D. Jackie Mac’s Pop narrative was sweet, but inaccurate.A lot of it is just potential turning into skill. The great thing is, Jaylen and Jayson still have a few more years of serious growth.
I think this was the one bit missing from RetractableRoof’s analysis. My sense is that Brad and Pop preach a similar gospel but being two different people with wildly different resumes, they are going to teach it in different ways. This means that not only are the Jays (and Marcus) getting a new perspective on it, they are also getting Brad’s message reinforced by a HOF coach.Yeah. Evolution of two great young players is the biggest piece, no doubt. They deserve the bulk of the credit for the difference.
Not having teammates holding them back also helps though. In fact, Hayward and Kemba are actively sublimating their own games and empowering the Jays. Stark contrast to last year.
And while chemistry is poo pooed in a lot of circles, I think that those four guys om the national team hanging together, bonding with each other and other pros, hearing a lot of the same shit but also new and interesting shit from Pop has value. Knowing that you belong has value.
Unless Langford ends up awesome, I think of this more as a great job drafting than as a great trade.So where are we going to end up ranking the #1 for #3 (Tatum) + pick trade in Celtics' history? Obviously Fultz has made himself a player in the NBA that deserves some minutes, so I'm happy for him, because it wasn't looking good there for a while. But Tatum has become a star, perhaps on his way to superstardom. And the Celtics got another lottery pick out of it.
Gotta be one of the great trades in Celtics' history, right?
Agree with this. The trade didn't need to happen for the Celtics to get Tatum. They could have just taken him #1. So the added value is whatever they get out of LangfordUnless Langford ends up awesome, I think of this more as a great job drafting than as a great trade.
But it’s still great.
I don't know if I agree. The trade of Henderson for what became Len Bias WAS a great trade. They ended up with the #2 pick. The result/outcome of the trade was horrible, but that was unknowable at the time of the trade.Unless Langford ends up awesome, I think of this more as a great job drafting than as a great trade.
But it’s still great.
Nicely articulated.I don't know if I agree. The trade of Henderson for what became Len Bias WAS a great trade. They ended up with the #2 pick. The result/outcome of the trade was horrible, but that was unknowable at the time of the trade.
I feel like the Tatum trade was a great trade, period. The results were again, unknowable - but turning the player you want into the same player plus a lottery pick is a great trade. That it came at the hands of a historic division rival is delicious icing on the cake.
Perhaps its semantics, but saying a trade involving future draft picks is only valuable if you cash in on the picks conflates drafting acumen with trading accumen.
On the one hand, it was essentially a free lottery pick. (If you buy - as I do - the theory that Ainge, unable to make a deal, would have just drafted Tatum at #1).I don't know if I agree. The trade of Henderson for what became Len Bias WAS a great trade. They ended up with the #2 pick. The result/outcome of the trade was horrible, but that was unknowable at the time of the trade.
I feel like the Tatum trade was a great trade, period. The results were again, unknowable - but turning the player you want into the same player plus a lottery pick is a great trade. That it came at the hands of a historic division rival is delicious icing on the cake.
Perhaps its semantics, but saying a trade involving future draft picks is only valuable if you cash in on the picks conflates drafting acumen with trading accumen.
I agree, Tatum was Ainge's pick to be a Celtic no matter which way things played out. I guess we disagree on the term "free" then - it seems like you are devaluing Ainge's skill in making that happen. Because Ainge played his cards close to the vest, and had Fultz in for a couple of workouts. Everyone in the league thought Boston was going to do the expected thing and take Fulz. Whether he took the call, or initiated the call, communication had to happen with Philly. And then on top of that, he had to be 100 percent sure that Tatum was going to get past the Lakers. It wasn't a free lottery pick, it was one he earned, finagled, bluffed, whatever term you put on it. If people had thought he was going to pick Tatum, there would have been no lottery pick. That was the horse trader in him coming out.On the one hand, it was essentially a free lottery pick. (If you buy - as I do - the theory that Ainge, unable to make a deal, would have just drafted Tatum at #1).
But the key franchise-altering thing in this case was drafting Tatum, which would have happened either way.
A real franchise-alternating great deal happened in 1980, when the Celtics traded the #1 pick (Joe Barry Carroll) and the #13 pick (Rickey Brown) for veteran C Robert Parish and the #3 pick (Kevin McHale).
That is a great deal.
A healthier and more charismatic Kawhi?So any thoughts on Tatum’s ceiling?
The kid is now a man. Max contract next stop. PP is an obvious comp for ceiling. Can't wait until he starts getting Superstar calls from the refs.So any thoughts on Tatum’s ceiling?
It’s wild, but that’s where we’re at. A less surly, more self-aware KD? It’s not out of the question give his age, growth curve, skills and drive.A healthier and more charismatic Kawhi?
Not a chance in hell.Not to pick a scab here, but does this emergence happen if Kyrie is still a Celtic? I highly tend to doubt it
I don’t know who that isNot to pick a scab here, but does this emergence happen if Kyrie is still a Celtic? I highly tend to doubt it
I was curious so I looked up KD's age 21 season, which was also his 3rd year (PG and Kawhi each were in their 2nd season, age 21 years).It’s wild, but that’s where we’re at. A less surly, more self-aware KD? It’s not out of the question give his age, growth curve, skills and drive.
For as good as he’s been, he still has some low hanging fruit to pick in continuing to work on his handle so he can really prod defenses.He has that KD and Kwahi crazy-high release, when he gets to his spots and squares up, he’s making it. The Hayward probe and pull-up from 15 would a nice complement to his game. He has that KD and Kwahi crazy-high release, when he gets to his spots and squares up, he’s making it. But really, there are a hundred ways he can get better, and everything we know about him so far leads me to believe that he’ll attack them all.
He’s a superstar.
I have to believe he has a fair amount of room between his game now and his ceiling. He's a better shooter than Simmons. Ingram is not in the same league and is a year older. Of course, there is also Ja Morant.He’s starting to get calls. Lots of free throws recently. And literally everything in his game looks better than a month ago. Some of it is hot shooting but some of it really looks like a sustained improvement. He’s at a level right now that few ever get to. He’s playing like a top ~5-15 player in the league.
The question is how much ceiling does he have left seeing as he’s just about 22. Could he continue to grow and reach top 5 status? Competition is stiff. Zion. Luka. Simmons. Embiid. AD and Giannis are still pretty young. Siakam could keep improving. Ingram and Trae are pretty good if they learn to defend. Is this the future of the nba? We’ll see.
Giannis is 25.Giannis is literally the only player in the Eastern Conference I’d trade Jayson for. Not Embiid. Not Simmons. Not Siakam. Not Kyrie. Not post-Achilles AD. Not Butler.
JT is better than all of them.
Why not just the Problem? I kinda like it...
The ABSOLUTE PROBLEM and YOUNGKING ....not as catchy as the Truth though...
He was great but the Celtics had no idea what to do when he got double teamed without Kemba. They were chucking the ball all over the court and taking bad shots.
Yeah, we saw this earlier in the year with Kemba--the team didn't really know how to handle his getting double-teamed, and then after a few games of it was pretty comfortable.Tatum was awesome today, but one thing that was obvious was that he was slow reacting to the double-teams and over time as he sees more and more of them, he will get better and quickly recognizing where the help is coming from and quickly shuttle the ball over to the open man.
Stevens on postgame was talking about this. He said some of this stuff Tatum hasn't seen a lot of so it's hard to go to the film and point things out, but that this game, and how the Lakers played him, will help a lot.Tatum was awesome today, but one thing that was obvious was that he was slow reacting to the double-teams and over time as he sees more and more of them, he will get better and quickly recognizing where the help is coming from and quickly shuttle the ball over to the open man.
2. BS has a Luka fetishIf Simmons was still doing his trade value rankings... where would Tatum land? Top 10?