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HS Football Players Target Ref with Cheap Shots

Discussion in 'Coaches Corner' started by mauidano, Sep 6, 2015.

  1. mauidano

    mauidano Mai Tais for everyone! SoSH Member

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    26,218
    This is pretty crazy when you see it.  Two Texas HS football players appear to intentionally target and run into a referee after he had ejected two of their team mates on previous plays.  Absolutely dangerous and these kids are toast now.
     
    Coaches; your takes on this...
     
    Story via ESPN:
    http://espn.go.com/moresports/story/_/id/13596539/northside-independent-school-district-investigates-john-jay-high-school-players-hit-referee
     
    Video:
    http://abc13.com/news/video-football-players-barrel-into-ref-at-hs-game/971933/
     
     
  2. vadertime

    vadertime Member SoSH Member

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    Shit. They didn't even try to make it look accidental.  They both zeroed right in on him and made no attempt to hide what they were doing.
     
  3. mr_smith02

    mr_smith02 Member SoSH Member

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    As I coach there's no way I would not allow those two players (and any others who may have help conjure up the idea to do that) to play another down this season. I would also not abandon these kids because it is very clear they need some guidance on making better choices. So, I'd keep them on my roster, would allow them to practice, but they would not play in any games this season. With their parents, the AD and my coaching staff I would create some goals for these young men to reach in order to return to game play next season.
     
    Boy, they are so fortunate they did not permanently injure the ref.
     
  4. 75cent bleacher seat

    75cent bleacher seat Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    Talk about cheap shots...If this was one of your kids who did such a thing how would you handle it? 
     
    edit:  If the ref was your dad you would _ _ _?
     
  5. Joe D Reid

    Joe D Reid Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You are presuming that a coach didn't tell them to do it.
     
  6. DrewDawg

    DrewDawg Dorito Dink SoSH Member

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    Yeah, they shouldn't be able to play again next year either.
     
    That's assault and if they tried to get on the field again the officials should walk out.
     
  7. leftfieldlegacy

    leftfieldlegacy Member SoSH Member

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    Cheap shot does not go far enough in describing that. What they did to that ref was criminal.
     
    The fact that it happened on a football field during a football play does not make it less so.
     
    If the ref was a relative, I would tell him to press charges.  
     
  8. soxfan121

    soxfan121 JAG Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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    You seem like a good guy, with the right attitude to be a coach. 
     
    But I'd have called the town sheriff and had then cuffed and arrested on the sideline, in the uniforms.

    And they'd never be allowed on a practice field or into those uniforms again unless they worked their asses off to make amends with the ref and the community. 

    That kind of shit has no place in a civilized society or a football field. That was premeditated assault with a deadly weapon. It can't be dealt with harshly enough, IMO. 
     
    And if it turns out that the COACHES knew, or sanctioned this in anyway, they should be arrested and charged with conspiracy to commit assault, and banned for life from coaching and attending games in the district. Because seriously - that shit is so far beyond unacceptable. 
     
  9. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

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    According to the story, this happened a little while after two of the other players on the team had been ejected from the game.  This seems like it is deeper in this team than just two kids, and I would like to hear the rest of the story, because I feel like there is a chance (although without 100% certainty, of course) that this behavior comes from the coaching staff.  
     
  10. mauidano

    mauidano Mai Tais for everyone! SoSH Member

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    26,218
    Apparently the ref wanted to press charges and should.  This is gaining national attention and you know how these things gain momentum.  The coach of the team is ultimately accountable for his players actions on the field regardless if he "ordered" the hit or not.  These guys should be held accountable for a pre-meditated assault on the official.  He could have been seriously injured. What if he was paralyzed by a shot to the back/spine like that? Just kicking these kids off the team is not going to be enough.
     
  11. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    22,375
    After watching the video, I have a hard time believing that the coaches were not involved here.

    Video was tough to watch.
     
  12. mr_smith02

    mr_smith02 Member SoSH Member

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    I did mention in my original post that any others who knew anything about the hits should be held responsible too.  I also mentioned setting goals before any return would be allowed, which would obviously included reaching out to the ref. Unfortunately, it would seem that something about the coaching these players received allowed them to believe they were doing something acceptable. Think of all the well coached teams you've ever seen, at any level, and ask yourself if the players would ever do something like this.
     
    I'd also like to clarify...if the legal system finds it appropriate for these players to be charged, then they should be charged. One of the many lessons that could come out of this for all the young people who were there, and will watch this go viral, is that actions do have consequences.  I'd just like to see the process include an education for all who took part in this horrible behavior, especially given the players are so young with a lot of life ahead of them. As I coach and teacher I have always sought out ways to have the young people with whom I work walk away slightly better people...there is an enormous opportunity to do that with these two players and all of their teammates. Beginning with neither of them being allowed to play another down this season.
     
  13. crystalline

    crystalline Member SoSH Member

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    5,671
    Edit: If the opposing team's QB had been blindsided in a similarly gutwrenching way, would it have gotten the same publicity?
     
  14. Kliq

    Kliq Member SoSH Member

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    That is a strawman. A QB getting hit on the blindside is at least part of the game of football. The QB is wearing pads, and if you play quarterback in high school, you should be aware that throughout the course of the season you are going to get hit hard. The players intentionally railroading a referee, who is not wearing pads and is never expecting to be leveled on a play from behind. This has nothing to do with the danger of playing football, but with the discipline that is taught to high schoolers who believe it is okay to pummel a referee.  
     
  15. 75cent bleacher seat

    75cent bleacher seat Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    What are you trying to say?  Elaborate please.
     
  16. twothousandone

    twothousandone Well-Known Member Lifetime Member SoSH Member

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     Not the coaches call. The law, then the league take it away from him (or her, but we know it's a him.)Your take on the aftermath is correct -- can't just make them the equivalent of radioactive.
    Coach is done for the season, maybe forever in that league. because EVERY high school player has to know "do this, and you cost your coach his CAREER."
     
     
    "Held responsible" avoids the tough choice. Any Indication the coaches knew and let them on the field -- charge the coaches. No indication, suspend the coaches.
     
    Cuff the kids, nail them to cross as much as the juvenile system permits (which is appropriately lenient). No more sports, even intramurals. You want a life. A future? Study. And show up for football practce every damn day, and work your ass off. You want redemption, or forgiveness, or even just forgetness? Work for it.
     
  17. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    I am stunned that anybody here is even contemplating permitting them to participate in scholastic sports in any way. Being on a team is a privilege, not some kind of right, and in my opinion, they have permanently forfeited that privilege. When I was playing, people would get kicked off the team permanently for relatively minor infractions like getting suspended for an on-campus fight or the like. Committing at criminal act while representing the school should be cause for EXPULSION, nevermind termination from sports.
     
  18. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    They have to investigate first, if the coach told these guys to do it, it mitigates it somewhat as far as the players are concerned. They should still never play scholastic sports again, but expulsion is too far if they were told to do it.  If the coach told them to do it, or even knew about it, he should face criminal charges as well.
     
    If the coach didn't order it and didn't know about it, he has two players kicked out of the game already, and then this? He's gotta be pretty close to getting fired.
     
    I played in a HS basketball game where a kid on the other team, who had a football scholarship punched a teammate of mine in the face, knocking out a couple teeth, total blind sided punch. He threw the punch, then ran out of the gym. I forget the college where he was supposed to play football, but they yanked his scholarship.
     
  19. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    I agree that any coach having anything to do with this should face charges as well, but these kids shouldnt be able to hide behind the Nuremberg Defense. They're old enough to know there's no justification for this.
     
  20. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    659
    It's high school football, even in Texas, they're still kids. I didn't see their ages anywhere, there's a chance they are under 18 and were told to do it by their coach who is in a pretty extreme position of authority over them.
     
  21. 75cent bleacher seat

    75cent bleacher seat Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    1,549
    Until we know the coach was involved let's refrain from assuming so.....please
     
  22. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    I wrote "there's a chance" - not assuming anything. It seems like a pretty key piece to figure out.
     
  23. mr_smith02

    mr_smith02 Member SoSH Member

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    I have been a teacher and a coach for nearly 20 years and I have always prided myself on not abandoning a young person. In no way whatsoever should that be read as I think players can do something like these two players did and not expect to find themselves in a world of deserved trouble; I am not saying that at all.
     
    Yes, these two young people have made a horrible and dangerous decision, and they absolutely must face and accept the consequences of these actions. There is still a real opportunity to help these kids...some adult should connect with these men, mentor them, work with them, provide them some structure and allow this horrible moment to be a moment to work to become better people. Expulsion just leads to two more young people who will end up being a blight to society in other ways. Instead, work with them as they face any legal or other consequences the powers that be decide. Seventeen or eighteen years old is way too young to just give up on these kids. Teenagers make horrible, dangerous and foolish decisions on a daily basis, and it is incumbent upon the adults in their lives to hold them accountable when such decisions are made, and to ideally help them grow from the actions. There is a very real opportunity to teach these two players, an entire football team and a community some very important lessons...I hope people can make that happen.
     
  24. NW Sox Fan

    NW Sox Fan lurker

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    88
    I believe the argument is that if the hit on the referee--a full-grown man--deserves national scorn, then a blindside hit on a teenage QB deserves equal attention. And if a blindside hit on a teenage QB deserves national attention, then football itself is inherently dangerous. Ergo, if you find this hit disgusting, you are arguing against football as a sport.
     
    Of course, this ignores the fact that the QB wears padding, is at least somewhat aware of the possibility of being hit, and has entered a social contract that includes the expectation of getting hit. The referee has done none of this. So, apples and oranges.
     
    Seeing the hit really pisses me off, but I must say that your attitude is refreshing. In fact, I'm concerned that the increase in exposure will undeservedly raise the penalties on the young men.
     
    I mean, it will feel good to rub their noses in their own piss, but what will they take away from the experience?
     
  25. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    I appreciate where your heart is, and I wholeheartedly agree that these kids shouldn't be "given up on," but I also believe that under no circumstances should they be allowed to play scholastic sports again. As a former high school official,I can tell you that I would absolutely refuse to officiate any game in which a player had assaulted an official. There just needs to be a zero tolerance policy when it comes to that, and letting someone play again sends the wrong message to the other players, coaches, fans, and everyone involved.

    As to expulsion, the school may have its hands tied, depending on any charges that are brought, or any findings made. Texas has fairly detailed law about discipline that must be imposed under certain circumstances, including crimes committed during school-sponsored events. (I am licensed to practice law in TX, but do not practice in this area.)
     
  26. canderson

    canderson Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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    The ref said said racist things to the main player supposedly.

    The bigger deal IMO is the ref threw out the wrong player and the kid who speared the ref stayed in. On the next play, the last one of the game, he hit the QB well after he kneeled. Like, welllll after apparently.

    I played Texas HS football and have seen lots on the field but never seen this.

    Charge the kids with assault,
     
  27. SoxJox

    SoxJox Member SoSH Member

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    3,478
    I agree with the notion of rehabilitation and giving these kids a second chance.  But there is a different color altogether imposed on the total picture when the misbehavior is not the breaking of a game rule, but the law.
     
    So, whatever mentoring, coaching, nurturing, assisting, or other "ing" is pursued, it shouldn't be anywhere near a sports field.  I agree with WayBack that playing the sport is a privilege, and they just had their tour card revoked.
     
  28. WayBackVazquez

    WayBackVazquez white knight against high school nookie Bronze Supporter SoSH Member

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    The secondary coach has been suspended for allegedly telling the players "that guy needs to pay for cheating us."
     
    The school district is treating the investigation as an assault on a school official, and has informed the officials' association of the racial epithet claims. 
     
    The official is lawyering up. What a mess. 
     
  29. Average Reds

    Average Reds Dope Staff Member Dope V&N Mod SoSH Member

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    Now that we know that the secondary coach was involved, the claim that the referee had been using racial slurs has to be considered a fabrication designed to cover up the entire episode.  It's simply not believable that an official could have used a racial slur so offensive that it caused two players to attempt to injure him, and yet those same players would not have mentioned it to the lead official.
     
    My guess is that this goes higher than the secondary coach and the allegations are an attempt at misdirection.
     
  30. LogansDad

    LogansDad Member SoSH Member

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    15,178
    Small update, as the kids have spoken.  Not too much new but:
     
    So, these kids went on Good Morning America to tell their story.  Apparently, the racial slur that was used was "Speak English, this is America."  And the kids are saying their coach said, "You need to hit the ref.  He needs to pay the price."
     
    Here's the Sports on Earth piece, with GMA tweets.
     
    If true, the coach should never be allowed anywhere near a position in which he coaches children again.  That said, I think these kids are old enough that they should have known better.  One of them says that "Beneath the helmet, I'm a really great kid."  Unfortunately for him, who you are is made up of ALL of your actions, not just the ones you are proud of.
     
  31. Heinie Wagner

    Heinie Wagner Member SoSH Member

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    STUDENT ETHNICITY DATA American Indian 0.1% Asian/Pacific Islander 3.1% Native Hawaiian 0.3% Black 6.3% White 19.1% Hispanic 68.4% Two or more races 2.8%
    http://www.nisd.net/administration/facts-and-figures
     
    That's from the school district - not one school.  Seems unlikely that a HS football referee, prone to saying that kind of thing would last long in that district.
     
  32. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    I don't know what the hell happened, but if I told one of my players to hit the ref, they would without question. I'm sure my kids wouldn't kill anyone for me but between the lines, they'd do almost anything (as would the vast majority of high school athletes for their respective coaches), which is why it's so important not to be a dick.
     
  33. mauidano

    mauidano Mai Tais for everyone! SoSH Member

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    Guessing that these kids by way of their appearance on GMA are now,working the backtrack and well guided media damage control. They are being coached and led again, this time by lawyers most likely. It doesn't change what happened regardless of if someone told them to hit the ref. They should still be held accountable for their actions as well as the coach they have thrown under the bus.
     
  34. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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    So naive. "Do what your coach tells you! Listen to your coach! Your coach knows best!" When was the last time you were involved with a varsity program including the parents, the administrators, the boosters etc.?
     
  35. riboflav

    riboflav Member SoSH Member

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  36. BigJimEd

    BigJimEd Member SoSH Member

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    so the kids hold no responsibility?
    I'm not directly involved in a varsity program these days but these kids should know that's crossing the line.
    I do not believe most kids would do that because the coach. Yes emotions run high during the game but I'm 99% sure the kids that I know who currently or have recently play at that level would simply ignore the coach.
    Although if the racial allegations against the ref are true that would likely change things to some degree.
     

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