Many umpires have a hard enough time calling balls and strikes accurately. Is it just me, or has the tactic of catchers framing pitches gotten out of control? They even seem to frame pitches that were already perfect strikes. Not that it would be easy to police, but why is framing pitches even legal? It is a blatant and rather obvious attempt to deceive the umpire. The umpires have got to know it is happening and maybe it is even counterproductive. Not sure why it annoys me to the degree that it does...anyone else think it is a stupid practice?
Has "Framing" Pitches by the Catcher Gotten Ridiculous?
- Thread starter RobertS975
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Framing pitches has been a thing since the game began. Good umpires don't get fooled by it very often, if at all. The best frame jobs, the ones that actually fool umps, are often so subtle that you wouldn't even notice the catcher did it. If you're noticing blatant movements of the catcher's glove to "frame" a pitch, or they're just holding it in place for an extra beat, odds are good that it is highly ineffective anyway and the objection you're having is entirely an aesthetic one.
Yeah, I've been saying this for a while. So many catchers now try to frame every pitch and it's comical. They move the glove a foot or more and think they're going to fool people. When the glove moves that much it probably hurts more than it helps. Vazquez was one guy who was guilty of this often. If you want to try to steal a call that's an inch or two off the plate by subtly moving the glove, sure. Otherwise it's gotten pretty stupid.
I honestly think it's absurd that we celebrate fooling the officials (especially some analytical people) by framing pitches but doing essentially the same thing by flopping in soccer or basketball is seen as cowardly. But, the answer is electronic balls and strikes which are coming so we only have to deal with this for a few more years.
Not even in the same universe for comparison
Framing is a part of the game that I barely even notice, because we see where the ball goes. The glove moving after happens on every catch. For catchers, yes its intentional, but that's part of their job
As I said, truly effective framing is subtle and barely noticeable unless you're specifically looking for it. Blatant "framing" where a catcher drags the mitt from six inches outside to center of the zone is ridiculous and deserves mocking same as flopping.
I'm quite sure there are basketball players quite adept at "framing" a foul in a subtle way that gets a call but would come nowhere near what we'd consider a flop. Same thing in soccer.
I'm quite sure there are basketball players quite adept at "framing" a foul in a subtle way that gets a call but would come nowhere near what we'd consider a flop. Same thing in soccer.
They are trying to trick the official into making a wrong call. There is not that much difference, just the degree and the level of acceptance by fans.
And guys who cheat on the field of play by stealing signs are savvy, those that doctor balls become lovable scamps, and yet those who "cheat" off the field by taking drugs so that they can work out harder more often and play harder more often and still recover are detestable scum. Sports fandom has weird lines.
How far is an umpire from the front edge of home plate? I'd guess at least three feet and he must determine where a pitch that is losing height first touches the strike zone. He also has to determine where a breaking pitch first touched the zone. A baseball traveling 90-mph is going 132 feet per second. The strike zone is the area over home plate (front to rear) and governed by the defined top and bottom according to who is batting. so a 90-mph pitch would be in the zone for approximately 0.01 seconds. Even electronic measurements are going to have some degree of error.
Varitek and Buster Pusey were great at not bothering with hopeless balls — thus not developing a rep, of sorts, as framers — and waiting for a subtle one to ring up a hitter.
Varitek was great at subtly lifting up the low strike, in particular.
Varitek was great at subtly lifting up the low strike, in particular.
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I’ve always thought it was a little unseemly. It does seem to be viewed with much more tolerance than, say, a batter pretending to have been hit by a pitch. In fact, it is lauded as a skill, as noted. I guess some catchers would say they are just taking strikes and making them more clear for the ump, so not sure it could ever be policed.
I don’t understand how umps ever can call the bottom of the strike zone accurately. I know they have lots of practice, but the eyes just don’t work that way. Like on a curve ball. How can you possibly know? I can see where they rely on the glove as a frame of reference at the bottom of the zone especially.
I don’t understand how umps ever can call the bottom of the strike zone accurately. I know they have lots of practice, but the eyes just don’t work that way. Like on a curve ball. How can you possibly know? I can see where they rely on the glove as a frame of reference at the bottom of the zone especially.
They also tend to set up over one shoulder of the catcher, which basically makes it impossible to see what happens at the bottom half of the strike zone on the opposite side. They have to assume what the ball trajectory is after it leaves their sight.
I don't blame the catchers, they are just doing their jobs, but I have said for a few years that I think the sport will instantly become maybe 30-40 percent more enjoyable (for me anyway) once an accurate electronic strike zone is implemented. It's not just the incorrect calls, sometimes game-changing, it's also that there is a whole category of pitches meant to be out of the zone but trick the ump into calling them strikes. With an electronic zone, that category would immediately disappear, as there is no one to trick, also probably speeding up the game. Tom Glavine would have had to retire years earlier.
Anyway, tennis fans can testify as to how the sport is somewhat better now that it is essentially all electronic calls with no real challenge system, as the electronic system is already making the call. The athletes no longer can logically complain about the calls and slow down the match (the crazier and more entertaining ones still find a way occasionally) so it is more sport and less bullshit. I think this would/will be an even stronger effect once it's in MLB, I can't wait.
And when that day comes, Jose Trevino and Austin Hedges can maybe get coaching jobs...
Anyway, tennis fans can testify as to how the sport is somewhat better now that it is essentially all electronic calls with no real challenge system, as the electronic system is already making the call. The athletes no longer can logically complain about the calls and slow down the match (the crazier and more entertaining ones still find a way occasionally) so it is more sport and less bullshit. I think this would/will be an even stronger effect once it's in MLB, I can't wait.
And when that day comes, Jose Trevino and Austin Hedges can maybe get coaching jobs...
A perfect serve in tennis is right on the corner, both lines, an ace almost every time. If a baseball pitcher makes a pitch that perfect currently, right on the corner of the box, it is called a ball a good chunk of the time. That's depressing.