Grudging respect for the enemy

[ivanvamp]

Mods, I'm not sure what forum this should be in, so move it as you desire.

I was looking at the Peyton Manning thread in P&G, and it got me thinking. Which enemy player in the major sports do you have the highest respect for, regardless of whether you *like* that player? By "enemy" I don't just mean a player not on my favorite team. I mean the ENEMY. Arch rival type.

For me, here are my top guys.

1. Mariano Rivera. Hands down #1. Utmost respect for him in every way. He's also my favorite Yankee of all time (not that I've actually liked many of them).

2. Peyton Manning. If he was the Pats' QB all these years, we'd love him. He's great, he is actually pretty funny. Tremendous competitor.

3. Joe Klecko. Another incredible player, who doesn't get the respect he deserves.

4. LeBron James. The guy is just so damned good, with virtually no off-court trouble.

5. Magic Johnson. Another all timer, hard to not respect him. Bird sure did.

What about you guys?

 

[ifmanis5]

Bernie Williams. Literally can't think of anything bad to say about him.

 

[LeoCarrillo]

Posada.
 
When Pedro pointed at his own head in the Zimmer-brawl game, implying he'd go head-hunting next, Posada was at the top of the dugout telling him to bring it on. In a lesser situation, I also remember Posada getting plowed by Gabe Kapler -- who is/was a house -- at home and doing a backward somersault and coming up with the ball. Which he showed to the ump for the third out of the inning and walked off the field without even looking at Kapler. Seriously badass.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Pedro Martinez. How can anyone not like Pedro?

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

For me, here are my top guys.

1. Mariano Rivera. Hands down #1. Utmost respect for him in every way. He's also my favorite Yankee of all time (not that I've actually liked many of them).

2. Peyton Manning. If he was the Pats' QB all these years, we'd love him. He's great, he is actually pretty funny. Tremendous competitor.

3. Joe Klecko. Another incredible player, who doesn't get the respect he deserves.

4. LeBron James. The guy is just so damned good, with virtually no off-court trouble.

5. Magic Johnson. Another all timer, hard to not respect him. Bird sure did.

What about you guys?

 
Great topic/list.  Aside from Klecko, the other four would lead off my list as well.  My respect for LeBron has easily overwhelmed any lingering contempt for him.
 
I'd add Kareem, Joe Torre, and P.K. Subban (though admit I'm not a huge hockey guy).

 

[FL4WL3SS]

This is a great topic.
 
There were a couple of Canadiens over the years that I respected, but never to the degree of Mariano. I obviously respect Recchi way more now than when he was with Montreal, but I always sort of liked him when he was with the Pens and Montreal. Saku Koivu was always respectable and up until recently I never had a bad thing to say about Markov, but I've soured on him.
 
It's really hard to come up with a Canadien - I think Koivu was the closest thing.

 

[FL4WL3SS]

Pedro Martinez. How can anyone not like Pedro?

That's actually surprising from a NYY fan - if I were on the other side, I would have hated Pedro.

 

[cshea]

Koivu is a good one. I was similarly trying to come up with a Canadien but drawing a blank. Koivu is probably the best bet. Maybe Carey Price off the current team.

 

[pedro1918]

Mariano and Bernie Williams.
 
Going further back, Ken Dryden.   I was in awe of that guy.  I really thought it was impossible to score against him. I remember being both crushed and excited when he retired early.  Happy for the Bruins chances, yet disappointed that I would never get to see him play again.
 

 

[Bergs]

Yankees: Bernie, Mariano
'Phins: Jason Taylor
NYJ:  Revis (hey, did you guys know he's a Patriot now....I still can't believe it)
Knicks: Charles Oakley
Lakers: Worthy
Cnadians: Patrick Roy

 

[riboflav]

Mods, I'm not sure what forum this should be in, so move it as you desire.

I was looking at the Peyton Manning thread in P&G, and it got me thinking. Which enemy player in the major sports do you have the highest respect for, regardless of whether you *like* that player? By "enemy" I don't just mean a player not on my favorite team. I mean the ENEMY. Arch rival type.

For me, here are my top guys.

1. Mariano Rivera. Hands down #1. Utmost respect for him in every way. He's also my favorite Yankee of all time (not that I've actually liked many of them).

2. Peyton Manning. If he was the Pats' QB all these years, we'd love him. He's great, he is actually pretty funny. Tremendous competitor.

3. Joe Klecko. Another incredible player, who doesn't get the respect he deserves.

4. LeBron James. The guy is just so damned good, with virtually no off-court trouble.

5. Magic Johnson. Another all timer, hard to not respect him. Bird sure did.

What about you guys?

 
How can you not like a guy who regularly calls Steve Grogan the toughest guy who ever lived?

 

[Kliq]

Any great player that doesn't come off as a huge douche (A-Rod, Dwyane Wade) I can pretty much respect as a great player, no matter who they play for.
 
Anyone on those Colts teams, with the exception of Dungy and Marvin Harrison, always came off as cool, classy guys. Peyton, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, they can play for my team any day. I also think that Rex Ryan is a pretty great defensive coordinator.

 

[ivanvamp]

Any great player that doesn't come off as a huge douche (A-Rod, Dwyane Wade) I can pretty much respect as a great player, no matter who they play for.
 
Anyone on those Colts teams, with the exception of Dungy and Marvin Harrison, always came off as cool, classy guys. Peyton, Dallas Clark, Reggie Wayne, they can play for my team any day. I also think that Rex Ryan is a pretty great defensive coordinator.

In all honesty, if Belichick wasn't the Patriots' coach, I'd love to have Rex Ryan.

 

[EvilEmpire]

In all honesty, if Belichick wasn't the Patriots' coach, I'd love to have Rex Ryan.

Belichick is another good one. I've been a fan for a long time. Nothing to dislike about how he goes about business.

 

[LoweTek]

Going further back, Ken Dryden. /snip

Going even further back, there were plenty of Canadiens candidates, Cournoyer, Richard(s), Lemaire, LeFleur, Beliveau, Plante, Mahovilich(s), so many. Those were great games amongst lots of great players.

 

[fletcherpost]

In Baseball has to be Rivera, outside of the uniform i loved everything about him. I'm big on faces and i really like his face, he has an honest, goodly look about him. I have nothing but admiration for what he did [for the Yankees.] He's one of the few sportsman i'd love to have dinner with just to pick his brain and find out how he did what he did...not just the physical side of things, but mentally, he was so strong.
 
Roy Keane: I hate Man Utd, always have and always will but Keano is a legend. He's also a bastard, a mean mother-fucker, but Christ he gave everything on the pitch and i admire that he backs himself to the hilt, i admire that level of bloody mindedness, maybe cos I feel terrible guilt when i do something bad or borderline, and Keano could kill grannies for fun and sleep like an angel. (I don't condone the killing of grannies.)
 
Elway - I hated the Broncos, cos they always got in the way of the Browns, whom i liked cos of the whole blue-collar thing, and i so wanted them to get to the Superbowl back in the day...if my memory serves me there was a few key games between the Browns and the Broncos...playoff games that the Browns lost more often than not...I'm not gonna google it so i'm prepared to be proved wrong. Anyway, Elway he was good.

 

[mauf]

The '80s Lakers teams are in a class by themselves. Maybe I've forgotten some unlikeable role players on those teams, but I respected all the key contributors. I mean, I felt bad when they got knocked out in 1986, because I felt the C's inevitable title that year would be worth just a bit less because we didn't have to go through LA. I can't think of another rival I respected so highly.
 
Growing up as a Hartford Whalers' fan, and therefore rooting against both Boston and Montreal, I had great respect for both Ray Bourque and Chris Chelios. Those were the guys you knew you'd love if they were on your team. I thought they were both a hell of a lot better than Paul Coffey, and I'm glad that history has mostly borne me out on what was, at the time, a minority view.
 
The Jeter/Williams/Posada/Rivera core of the most recent MFY dynasty, for reasons others have stated well. Also, when you consider the Mitchell Report's two sources were both NY-based, the fact that none of those guys weren't named suggests they were as likely to be clean as anyone who played in that era. Not that I'm a big moralizer about PEDs, but it's unquestionably a point in their favor.

 

[Koufax]

As  a Brooklyn Dodgers fan I had to hate the Giants and the Yankees, but it was impossible to hate Willy Mays or Mickey Mantle.  Just impossible.  Actually there were quite a few unhatable Yankees from that era -- Whitey Ford, Phil Rizzuto, Elston Howard.  I could reallly only hate the uniform.  From the Giants, I hated that spitball throwing Sal Maglie until they traded him the the Dodgers, then he became a saint.
 
Flash forward to today and I'd have to agree with those naming Mariano Rivera and Peyton Manning.  Being only a recent hockey watcher, I'd say PK Subban.  And yes, LeBron James, who has always looked and acted 20 year older than his true age (with the exception of course of "The Decision" and the "Not 1, not 2..." speech.

 

[Average Reds]

Going even further back, there were plenty of Canadiens candidates, Cournoyer, Richard(s), Lemaire, LeFleur, Beliveau, Plante, Mahovilich(s), so many. Those were great games amongst lots of great players.

 
The Flying Frenchmen.  Hated, feared and definitely respected.
 
Edit:  Well, not the Mahavolichs.

 

[HurstSoGood]

Yankees: For some reason I always respected Scott Brosius. I remember feeling bad for him when his dad died of cancer. Scott never came across as a jackass and was one of the few players who left on his own terms, a champion, and long before most people would have considered his career "over."
 
Celtics: I grew up a 76er/Julius Erving fan after my dad bought me Dr J's basketball hoop (indoor adjustable plastic thingy) as a small kid. While I didn't catch any regular season games vs the Celts on tv or at the Garden, they always seemed to meet in the playoffs. Always loved seeing Mo Cheeks, Andrew Toney, Doc, Moses, Dawkins, etc., battle the 80's Celtics.
Larry was the arch-nemesis. Total respect for him. Guy was an assassin and made everyone else around him better.
 
Non-Patriot: Hands down Peyton Manning. I certainly don't know him, but I find him personable and funny on tv. Seems like it would be cool to hang out with him for a little while.

 

[snowmanny]

Mods, I'm not sure what forum this should be in, so move it as you desire.

I was looking at the Peyton Manning thread in P&G, and it got me thinking. Which enemy player in the major sports do you have the highest respect for, regardless of whether you *like* that player? By "enemy" I don't just mean a player not on my favorite team. I mean the ENEMY. Arch rival type.

For me, here are my top guys.

1. Mariano Rivera. Hands down #1. Utmost respect for him in every way. He's also my favorite Yankee of all time (not that I've actually liked many of them).

2. Peyton Manning. If he was the Pats' QB all these years, we'd love him. He's great, he is actually pretty funny. Tremendous competitor.

3. Joe Klecko. Another incredible player, who doesn't get the respect he deserves.

4. LeBron James. The guy is just so damned good, with virtually no off-court trouble.

5. Magic Johnson. Another all timer, hard to not respect him. Bird sure did.

What about you guys?

Another vote for Bernie Williams.  In the old days, the best position player on a team that wins multiple World Series titles would be a HOF lock.
Also will vote for Magic Johnson. 
Those old Orioles always had my great respect: Palmer, Robinson, Robinson.
 
As for Peyton Manning, I can't disagree.  If he had been on the Pats all these years, he'd be very popular.  Everyone loves the backup quarterback.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

As crazt as it sounds to say it...PK Subban. For years I thought he was just a horrid diving weasel, but 1) his comments in the wake of the despicable racist abuse he got during the most recent playoffs ratcheted my respect for him way up, and 2) he kicked our goddamn asses in those playoffs with incredible play. I was duly impressed.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Mariano-I'm surprised no one mentioned his tip of the cap on opening day 2005. An incredibly classy move. The guy generated zero drama, but was so damn good. He just went out and did his job, better than anyone in history. Impossible not to respect.

Magic-I hated him, but I had respect for him, especially when he came back from the torn cartilage early in his career. I figured he was done after that. The "junior junior" sky hook in 87 was about as clutch as you can get.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

James Worthy
Charles Barkley
Dominique
Antonio Gates
Demaryius Thomas
Curtis Martin as a Jet, if that counts
Kimmo Timonen
Jari Kurri
 
a few more.

 

[Dan to Theo to Ben]

This is a great topic.
 
There were a couple of Canadiens over the years that I respected, but never to the degree of Mariano. I obviously respect Recchi way more now than when he was with Montreal, but I always sort of liked him when he was with the Pens and Montreal. Saku Koivu was always respectable and up until recently I never had a bad thing to say about Markov, but I've soured on him.
 
It's really hard to come up with a Canadien - I think Koivu was the closest thing.

John LeClair maybe, partly due to UVM. (before he got really good and partly because he got good away from MTL)

 

[FL4WL3SS]

John LeClair maybe, partly due to UVM. (before he got really good and partly because he got good away from MTL)

I honestly don't even remember LeClair's time with MTL, he wasn't really all that notable when he was there. I neither hated him nor respected him on that team. Now, if you're talking when he was with Philly, then you're probably onto something, but the Bruins and Flyers weren't really rivals during his time there.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

MLB - Mariano for sure.  Even without the playful back & forth with the Sox this guy was just dominant forever and never did anything insulting or belligerent off the field.
NFL - Romo.  Hate the uniform with a passion, but have to respect this guy. Always accepts responsibility for his fuckups, tougher than nails, banged Daisy Duke and other hotties.  Nothing nice to say about any other Cowboly ever.  Honorable mention to LT back in the day, who was great to see play except when he was crushing Jaworski.  On the Redskin front I'd have to say Joe Gibbs and Art Monk - all class, all the time.  Riggins was fun to watch on and off the field, too.  And I'd love to have an owner like Jack Kent Cooke.
NBA - Magic, of course.  Once Dr. J. choked Larry I lost all respect for him otherwise he'd have made the list.
NHL - I'll second PK Subban.

 

[FelixMantilla]

As crazt as it sounds to say it...PK Subban. For years I thought he was just a horrid diving weasel, but 1) his comments in the wake of the despicable racist abuse he got during the most recent playoffs ratcheted my respect for him way up, and 2) he kicked our goddamn asses in those playoffs with incredible play. I was duly impressed.

 
He is a total asshole on the ice, but seems like a great guy off the ice.

 

[loshjott]

I'm a Nats fan so I'll add Yadier Molina to the list.
 
Also agree with Peyton, Magic, and Mariano.
 
I honestly cannot think of anyone else connected with the Colts, Lakers or Yankees that I'd include.  F 'em all 

 

[Dummy Hoy]

If my son were entering college now and could play hockey for any school, I would probably send him to Jerry York. Then I'd disown him for going to BC.

 

[kenneycb]

Yeah I love Subban.  He scares the living crap out of me every time he touches the puck and, while he does have some theatrics, I mildly cheered for Joe Corvo one season and have cheered for Marchand for multiple so I don't have a leg to stand on. Only other Hab I can think of is Koivu.
 

If my son were entering college now and could play hockey for any school, I would probably send him to Jerry York. Then I'd disown him for going to BC.

I love BC and am proud to be one of the many douchebag alums but I've heard too many stories about York's handling of fringe players and of sweeping some stuff under the rug (hey Brett Motherwell!), though certainly not of the drunk Jack Parker variety, to feel that way.  Though I will still gladly cheer BC as they make yet another Frozen Four.  And curse Brian Boyle for being annoying, overpaid and single handedly blowing a national championship game.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Yeah I love Subban.  He scares the living crap out of me every time he touches the puck and, while he does have some theatrics, I mildly cheered for Joe Corvo one season and have cheered for Marchand for multiple so I don't have a leg to stand on. Only other Hab I can think of is Koivu.
 
I love BC and am proud to be one of the many douchebag alums but I've heard too many stories about York's handling of fringe players and of sweeping some stuff under the rug (hey Brett Motherwell!), though certainly not of the drunk Jack Parker variety, to feel that way.  Though I will still gladly cheer BC as they make yet another Frozen Four.  And curse Brian Boyle for being annoying, overpaid and single handedly blowing a national championship game.

Interesting...and good to know. If York is still at the Heights in 2031, I'll check in with you again.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yeah I love Subban.  He scares the living crap out of me every time he touches the puck and, while he does have some theatrics, I mildly cheered for Joe Corvo one season and have cheered for Marchand for multiple so I don't have a leg to stand on. Only other Hab I can think of is Koivu.
 
I love BC and am proud to be one of the many douchebag alums but I've heard too many stories about York's handling of fringe players and of sweeping some stuff under the rug (hey Brett Motherwell!), though certainly not of the drunk Jack Parker variety, to feel that way.  Though I will still gladly cheer BC as they make yet another Frozen Four.  And curse Brian Boyle for being annoying, overpaid and single handedly blowing a national championship game.

 
I'm a proud BC alum and I think Jerry York walks on water, so don't share these stories with me thx.

 

[curly2]

I agree with people who've already mentioned Mariano Rivera and Bernie Williams. I would also add David Cone.
 
Going back to when I was a kid, Roger Staubach. I hated all the "America's Team" crap, but had to respect Roger the Dodger. (By the way, yes, I'm old).

 

[ilivefaster]

Man I hate Peyton. The fact that he's so likeable makes me hate him more.

I agree with Rex Ryan and Mo, and Magic.

Lebron rules, and I want to see him win all the time now that he's in Cleveland again, but in Miami I just wanted him to constantly break single game scoring records and lose by 1.

In hockey I have to say growing up I hated the Pens just slightly more than the Habs, so Mario Lemieux's my pick. Now, as a grown-ass man, I suppose I can begrudgingly admit that Patrick Roy was incredible, but I'm still rooting against the Avs only because of him.

 

[steveluck7]

Lots of respect here for Bernie Williams. I've always kinda held a grudge for the way he handled his free agency in 98. baiscally using Boston to get NY to cave to his demands.

 

[mauf]

Lots of respect here for Bernie Williams. I've always kinda held a grudge for the way he handled his free agency in 98. baiscally using Boston to get NY to cave to his demands.

How dare treat his livelihood like a business!

 

[MentalDisabldLst]

Not sure I follow the PK Subban stuff.  My grudging respect comes more from on-field performance than off-field.  Subban is an incredible talent but he's a diving jackass.
 
In the NHL world, maybe someone like Pavel Datsyuk, who often has our number, would count?
 
In MLB, aside from Mariano, I've always kinda liked Ben Zobrist.  Verlander too.  And if I can't have Tito or Farrell, Mike Scioscia can manage my team anytime.