Extensions Schmextensions

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

First... I'm in Austin and have been working building furniture the top of downtown high-rise for the last 3 weeks and am utterly miserable. However.... I'm in the office today though (yay AC!!!) which means I can get everything I need to do in 5 hours over an 8 hour day so I waste most of my time on SoSH.

More importantly though.... there's been a lot of side talk about extensions for the younger players to develop an Atlanta Braves type of cost controlled core. After this season, the team has a ton of room under the LTT and can, and should, bring in one more potentially high-cost starter (Yamamoto?) but also to control long term costs by trying to get the young core into extensions buying out their cost controlled seasons. Over the next 4 seasons, the Sox have Devers, Story and Yoshida at high AAV, but also will have Bello, Houck, Whitlock,* Wong, Casas, Duran and Crawford locked up but each of those guys will be getting incrementally more expensive. Who among that group do you offer long term extensions to? Also... figure in Verdugo (who would cost more since he's deeper into cost controlled years), Pivetta and McGuire to your mix.
*Whitlock already locked up (whether it's a good or bad contract pending his health TBD... but it's not a Sale level- or even close- problem if he's constantly on the DL... which is why getting these types of contracts is good long term)

Verdugo- offer 5/$80. He's been slumping but still provides good RF defense, an above average bat and appears to be a team leader. If he turns it down, look to trade him in the offseason.
McGuire- go year to year to see how C in the mL's develop. McGuire is controlled for 4 more seasons... will start to get expensive after next year (or at least more than his talent should get)
Pivetta- bring him back despite salary in '24 likely being more than he's worth but keep an eye open for trades

Casas- sign him long term. He's young and a good 10 year extension would take him through his most productive years. Offer $120M/10 (am I crazy?)
Duran- go year to year. He's already relatively old and even if this season is his true talent level, they still have him for 4 more years. If he produces next year like this, then consider a 5 year/$80M
Wong- go year to year. Same as Duran.... I'm really liking Wong and suspect his framing skills will improve as will his BA/OBP. I can see him at a .750 OPS with top line defense for 3 seasons and then a tailing off.
Bello- sign him long term. Similar to Casas.... I'd probably keep it closer to 8 years for around $10M per.
Houck- year to year. I just don't know what to expect out of him... looks great.... looks bad.... He just needs some consistency so I'd put him in the Duran/Wong bucket.
Crawford- I'm starting to come around on Crawford as what I was thinking Pivetta could be (and actually is) but young enough to also put in a 7-8 year offer to. He doesn't have the pedigree of Bello but has been pitching just about as good. I don't know how to manage egos, but I'd go for a 6 year/$60M

I'm expecting to be called out on this for a variety of reason which is fine. Really hoping to get a discussion going about the future here rather than the past ( trade deadline analysis) and my understanding of salaries is pretty limited.

 

[jwbasham84]

I for one appreciate this thought line... rather than dwell on what we can't change lets pontificate on what we can potentially change/lock down long term.

I agree with your general assessment of Verdugo, Mcguire and Pivetta. I would be willing to go a little higher on Verdugo, he has been a solid defender, solid bat, and good club house presence that seems to enjoy playing for the Red Sox. 5/$90 would probably be around the top for me, so not really that different.

Casas - I love your idea, I just don't think he signs anything longer than 7 or 8 years. That would set him up for another payday in his prime. So, I think best we could do is 7/$84 or 8/$96 and even those might be light on what he would want.
Duran - Same
Wong - Same
Bello - I think signing him up for an 8-year contract is ideal, but I can't see him signing for only $10M per year. Granted he is inconsistent at times, but he has #1 or #2 starter type stuff and I think he would want to be paid a little more than that. 8 Years takes him to age 32 so conceivably he could still sign another contract towards the end of his career. I would say if you go 8 years it is more like 8/$112 - $120 range. I think it we make it shorter you can be more in the Spencer Strider range of 6/$75.
Crawford - Here I think you are right in line..

Good stuff... can't want to hear more opinions!

 

[chawson]

I don’t want to start another Verdugo-critical riff but why do people wanna give him $90-100M over five or six years when we have Rafaela, Anthony, Bleis in the pipeline? His defense is solid but I think there are a lot of LHH platoon-bat OFs available every offseason for much shorter years. Also, is he a positive clubhouse presence? I find him kind of an endearing character and certainly capable of being a good levity guy, but thinking of similarly big-personality colleagues I’ve worked with, they can get kind of annoying over a long haul.

I’d work toward extensions for Casas and Bello for sure. (Trying to make a casus belli pun but it doesn’t work). They’re the core.

I kind of like @Sandy Leon Trotsky’s idea of a modest extension for Crawford, but we’ve already got him through his age-32 season. I’m not sure what his age 33-34 seasons are gonna look like. Maybe do a Whitlock-lite where we give him a bit more up front in exchange for a club option on his 2029 season?

It would be nice to create a kind of culture of extending young players. Depending on the personalities involved, I imagine that could have some positive ripple effects.

 

[ookami7m]

I think the case for Connor Wong is different though for a couple of reasons:
1) He's an absolute beast at shutting down the running game - which has proven to be more important with the rule changes
2) Catchers mature later than other players on average .

Varitek spent most of 98 (his age 26 season) with the Sox getting into 86 games then 144 in 99, 139 in 2000 etc his OPS+ those years is 83/101/83. This is Wong's age 27 season and he's already got 85 games this year and pacing for more obviously. His OPS+ is 87. I remember people already talking about Tek as the catcher of the forseeable future in late 98, one year younger than Wong is now. I'm not saying you offer a 10 year deal or anything but getting some lock down in cost and buying out a year or two of FA may not be a bad idea.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I’m with @chawson on Verdugo. Nice player when he’s young and cheap, but I’m not going long term in a corner OF who doesn’t have power or speed and has a lot of value tied up in defense (which seems to vary a bit from year to year). That’s just not going to be great value.

Similarly, Wong is a nice player too, but he also turns 28 in May. Not sure I see the need to lock up a few post FA years when he may be declining. Let’s see another year from him, first.

Lock up Casas and Bello. Duran, I’d want to see another year. The other guys, I don’t think there’s really a need to worry about yet.

 

[BravesField]

I don’t want to start another Verdugo-critical riff but why do people wanna give him $90-100M over five or six years when we have Rafaela, Anthony, Bleis in the pipeline?

Completely agree. Chaim is not blocking those two guys.

 

[RobertS975]

Duran may well get more just from arbitration!

 

[NDame616]

I think the overwhelmingly likelihood is Verdugo is traded this off season. Hopefully he has a good few months to get a better return

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

I think they just let him play out his contract. A solid player on a one year deal is what they’d be looking for if they got rid of him, to act as a potential bridge to the OF talent on the horizon.

 

[JBJ_HOF]

They control Duran for 5 more years, not 4. He'll be a Super Two and get 4 arb years, but he is controlled through his age 31 season.

The only reason to sign Duran or Houck would be to do them a favor because they are controlled so long and they get some security at a big discount.

 

[Seels]

There's really no reason to extend Verdugo. He's not the kind of player who makes sense to give market value for unless the team otherwise has a black hole at the position. Trade him, get a stop gap for cheap money, and hope the minor league talent lives up to their potential. If they don't, whatever, you're out a 110 ops+ / 2 win player. No big deal really.

Casas and Bello they should focus. As someone that really thinks little of Chaim, extending either or both of them would go a bit towards showing that the crew is interested in learning from the mistakes of yesterday.

 

[RobertS975]

They control Duran for 5 more years, not 4. He'll be a Super Two and get 4 arb years, but he is controlled through his age 31 season.

The only reason to sign Duran or Houck would be to do them a favor because they are controlled so long and they get some security at a big discount.

Control in baseball terms has always seemed like a bit of a delusion to me. The team may control the player's location, but for most of those years, the team does not control the price of the contract. Arbitration years may be more reasonable and predictable, I suppose.

 

[rodderick]

If Wong had better framing I'd love to lock him down, but I don't think the glove is enough as it stands now. Solid player, but 34% strikeouts and a 88 wRC+ even on a .360 BABIP make me think he could turn into a pumpkin quickly.

 

[simplicio]

I'm okay with the control we already have on Duran. His speed is so much of his value; how much of that will he retain into his mid 30s?

Verdugo has turned himself into a good RF with a great arm. Dunno why he was so bad last month but he's been good again lately. Extend through '27 at something like 4/$70, let him hit the market at age 31? A Duran/Rafaela/Dugie OF for a few years sounds dreamy.

Wong has developed nicely but I don't see a real reason to extend, certainly not right now. He's controlled through '28 and Teel is a better regarded defensive prospect than he ever was, and should be ready in that window. Let's see how things develop over the next couple years anyway. (related: for the love of Chaim please find a way to get Scott on the 40 man this winter so we don't have to Alfaro/Hamilton our way through 2024)

I wanted to extend Casas when he was terrible. I still want to extend him now that he's good. I think his hit tool will be durable, I think his defense will improve over time, give me 10 years. $150?

Bello has been solid, maybe something like 7/$80 with a more expensive club option year at the end?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Verdugo isn't the type of impact player you'd be looking to extend. He's alright, a decent starting OFer but all his numbers are "pretty good" at best. His OPS+ is meh (107,101,106). His WAR is pretty good this year (2.8) but last year was poor (1.1). Fangraphs does have him as contributing around $15 million worth of value this year, and his baserunning and defense has been better, but is he really worth a Benintendi-type deal? The power, like Benintendi's (96 OPS+ this year), simply isn't there. No one thinks of Duran as a power hitter yet he is handily outslugging Verdugo this season.

I'd let him play out his deal and bid him adieu with thanks. He's not the type of player to be blocking any prospects, and Lord knows I'm no prospect humper. He simply doesn't make enough of an impact.

Ceddanne Rafaela is at .330/.392/.661 with 9 HR for the WooSox and is clearly knocking on the door. I'd hate to see Verdugo be in his way.

 

[moondog80]

There's always a price where it's worth extending someone. But unless he takes well under market value, Verdugo is Grant Williams -- great to have when he's under his initial deal, not so much when he hits free agency. If his cheap, in-house replacement isn't ready, fill that spot with a series single year deals to Adam Duvalls and Joc Pedersons until the farm bears fruit.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Verdugo isn't the type of impact player you'd be looking to extend. He's alright, a decent starting OFer but all his numbers are "pretty good" at best. His OPS+ is meh (107,101,106). His WAR is pretty good this year (2.8) but last year was poor (1.1). Fangraphs does have him as contributing around $15 million worth of value this year, and his baserunning and defense has been better, but is he really worth a Benintendi-type deal? The power, like Benintendi's (96 OPS+ this year), simply isn't there. No one thinks of Duran as a power hitter yet he is handily outslugging Verdugo this season.

I'd let him play out his deal and bid him adieu with thanks. He's not the type of player to be blocking any prospects, and Lord knows I'm no prospect humper. He simply doesn't make enough of an impact.

Ceddanne Rafaela is at .330/.392/.661 with 9 HR for the WooSox and is clearly knocking on the door. I'd hate to see Verdugo be in his way.

I don't see him blocking Rafaela though. His future is likely CF'er (is his arm good enough for RF?) with Duran moving to LF.... so they at least have Verdugo for next year for RF which is fine.... but I'm not sure if any of the other good OF prospects really will be ready for '25 (really it's only Anthony at this point, no?).
I'm also seeing Rafaela as a super utility guy starting 4/5 games but between CF, 2B and SS at least for next season until Mayer is up. I dunno....

 

[Archer1979]

I don't see him blocking Rafaela though. His future is likely CF'er (is his arm good enough for RF?) with Duran moving to LF.... so they at least have Verdugo for next year for RF which is fine.... but I'm not sure if any of the other good OF prospects really will be ready for '25 (really it's only Anthony at this point, no?).
I'm also seeing Rafaela as a super utility guy starting 4/5 games but between CF, 2B and SS at least for next season until Mayer is up. I dunno....

LF is really the only place to hide Tanaka's glove unless you plan to make him the full-time DH, which will block where Devers is probably going to end up. Fenway's RF is really where you want a plus defender which is why Duran or Rafaela should go there.

The problem with this team is that, while the bats are good, the gloves are not. The low hanging fruit for improving this team is to improve the defense.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

LF is really the only place to hide Tanaka's glove unless you plan to make him the full-time DH, which will block where Devers is probably going to end up. Fenway's RF is really where you want a plus defender which is why Duran or Rafaela should go there.

The problem with this team is that, while the bats are good, the gloves are not. The low hanging fruit for improving this team is to improve the defense.

I assume you mean Yoshida, not Tanaka.

Duran has no business being in RF. He doesn't have the arm for it. Rafaela might have the arm, but I don't think he has the bat. Sure his numbers so far in Worcester are pretty solid, but the underlying issues (primarily pitch selection/recognition) make me think his hot start in AAA isn't sustainable nor will it translate to the big leagues. I'd be hesitant to make any plans that involve him being a full time starter at the major league level.

 

[Archer1979]

I assume you mean Yoshida, not Tanaka.

Duran has no business being in RF. He doesn't have the arm for it. Rafaela might have the arm, but I don't think he has the bat. Sure his numbers so far in Worcester are pretty solid, but the underlying issues (primarily pitch selection/recognition) make me think his hot start in AAA isn't sustainable nor will it translate to the big leagues. I'd be hesitant to make any plans that involve him being a full time starter at the major league level.

Man, I must be having a stroke. Second time today I've screwed up a name. But yes. He and Devers are locked in and not going anywhere so both need a place in the line-up. And agreed on the stronger arm needs to go in right. Duran certainly has the speed needed for CF although his routes to ball could be... straighter.

Verdugo could probably be used as trade bait to improve the starting pitching (although it would need to be part of a package). I wouldn't extend him if they can't trade him though.

 

[chawson]

I think they just let him play out his contract. A solid player on a one year deal is what they’d be looking for if they got rid of him, to act as a potential bridge to the OF talent on the horizon.

I think you’re probably right. This deadline was the last time it made sense to trade Verdugo, I'd say. This offseason, we'd probably be looking at a return of a decent seventh-inning reliever, not a long-term impact piece (thinking of the Teoscar Hernandez and Hunter Renfroe deals last winter).

Assuming a modest contract-year bounce he could probably get his OPS back up to .800. The defense is plus, so no complaints there, but it's not so incredibly good that it can't be replaced (+1 in Baseball Savant's Fielding Run Value in 2023). He's not a bad player at all, just a position where I'd want a little more thump, and I'm bummed that there are platoon splits after all. Then again, with as hard as it is to find a plus defender for Fenway's right field, the total package is still above-average for now.

 

[Green (Tongued) Monster]

LF is really the only place to hide Tanaka's glove unless you plan to make him the full-time DH, which will block where Devers is probably going to end up. Fenway's RF is really where you want a plus defender which is why Duran or Rafaela should go there.

The problem with this team is that, while the bats are good, the gloves are not. The low hanging fruit for improving this team is to improve the defense.

I agree with this. While upgrading the pitching is Chaim's #1 priority this offseason, I think he can sign a FA bat that adds RH "power" while also upgrading the defense. My preferable options are:

1.) Sign Matt Chapman (+11 DRS, 125 OPS+, 4.4 bWAR) to play 3rd, pushing Devers (-8 DRS, 122 OPS+, 1.8 bWAR) to DH. Would you sign him to a deal similar to what Brandon Nimmo received last year (8/$162)? This would force Chapman/Devers/Casas into the 3B/DH/1B positions leaving Yoshida to handle LF full time.

2.) Sign Teoscar Hernandez (+6 DRS, 93 OPS+, 1.0 bWAR) or Lourdes Gurriel (+6 DRS, 104 OPS+, 1.5 bWAR), pushing Yoshida (-6 DRS, 125 OPS+, 1.6 bWAR) to DH. Either option should cost less than Benintendi last year. Maybe 3-4 years at $10 mil per year for Gurriel and $14 mill per year for Hernandez and hope he bounces back?

Either option keeps Verdugo in right (+11 DRS) in 2024, where they have another year to reevaluate his contract.

Duran CF
Yoshida LF
Chapman 3B
Devers DH
Story SS
Casas 1B
Urias/Turner?/Rafaella??? 2B
Verdugo RF
Wong C

Duran CF
Yoshida DH
Story SS
Devers DH
Hernandez LF
Casas 1B
Urias/Turner?/Rafaella??? 2B
Verdugo RF
Wong C

I think at this point, I would only pursue extensions for Casas and Bello.

Edit: Really don't know what to do with 2B for next year. Don't want to run out Turner for the majority of games, but where does he fit?
Edit x2: Totally forgot about Urias at 2B

 

[jwbasham84]

Yoshida is signed for 4 additional years after this. Do we really see Devers moving off of third in 4 years? Believe me, I understand his defense is suspect, but I honestly don't see any prospect coming that moves him from that position until later on in his career, not his age 30-31 season or sooner. So, pushing Yoshida into a DH role seems perfectly fine, and he can spell the outfield occasionally at home in left field. An outfield of Verdugo in Left, Duran in Center and Rafaela seems like an outfield defense that gets to a lot of fly balls, IF Rafaela pushes the issue. If he doesn't because he can't fix his pitch selection issues, it would certainly be nice to have a player like Verdugo manning right field for us for the next few years and find someone like Refsnyder (after 2024 or 2025 if we pick up the option) who can platoon with Yoshida in left. Yes, he's not a perennial all-star, but he's a good player and paying him $12M-15M per season to play solid defense and hit around .280 seems worth it to me. Good lord how much did we pay the corpse of JBJ? $17.5M.... I will take Dugie!

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Turner is likely gone next year; although maybe the Sox could work out another deal similar to the one they did this year. But do you want to lock in to two more years for a guy his age, especially if you’ve got 1b/3b/dh covered?

 

[Green (Tongued) Monster]

Turner is likely gone next year; although maybe the Sox could work out another deal similar to the one they did this year. But do you want to lock in to two more years for a guy his age, especially if you’ve got 1b/3b/dh covered?

Getting a little of topic regarding extensions, but Turner has a 13.4 million dollar player option next season. I assume you believe Boston pays the hefty buyout of 6.7 million?

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Getting a little of topic regarding extensions, but Turner has a 13.4 million dollar player option next season. I assume you believe Boston pays the hefty buyout of 6.7 million?

I assume he opts out, takes the buyout and then finds an offer or $6.7M or greater elsewhere. Seems like a no brainer for him.

 

[jwbasham84]

No way Turner doesn't opt out after the season he has had... Plenty of teams were interested at the trade deadline and he will find several suitors that would be happy to pay him $7M+

 

[BaseballJones]

Give Verdugo the QO after this season. He signs elsewhere, happily take the comp pick. He accepts it and stays, great, use Rafaela as an OF/IF guy for a year before establishing him full time in the OF in 2025.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Give Verdugo the QO after this season. He signs elsewhere, happily take the comp pick. He accepts it and stays, great, use Rafaela as an OF/IF guy for a year before establishing him full time in the OF in 2025.

They can't give a QO to someone who's not a free agent. Verdugo is under team control for next year already.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

Give Verdugo the QO after this season. He signs elsewhere, happily take the comp pick. He accepts it and stays, great, use Rafaela as an OF/IF guy for a year before establishing him full time in the OF in 2025.

He's back in '24 on the last year of his rookie contract. I'm assuming you mean after that, which sounds good but i suspect Rafaela will be up next year possibly right out of Spring Training

 

[chawson]

Yoshida is signed for 4 additional years after this. Do we really see Devers moving off of third in 4 years? Believe me, I understand his defense is suspect, but I honestly don't see any prospect coming that moves him from that position until later on in his career, not his age 30-31 season or sooner. So, pushing Yoshida into a DH role seems perfectly fine, and he can spell the outfield occasionally at home in left field. An outfield of Verdugo in Left, Duran in Center and Rafaela seems like an outfield defense that gets to a lot of fly balls, IF Rafaela pushes the issue. If he doesn't because he can't fix his pitch selection issues, it would certainly be nice to have a player like Verdugo manning right field for us for the next few years and find someone like Refsnyder (after 2024 or 2025 if we pick up the option) who can platoon with Yoshida in left. Yes, he's not a perennial all-star, but he's a good player and paying him $12M-15M per season to play solid defense and hit around .280 seems worth it to me. Good lord how much did we pay the corpse of JBJ? $17.5M.... I will take Dugie!

Yoshida is the Sox outfielder least in need of a platoon.

 

[jwbasham84]

I guess platoon is the wrong word as I more meaning for defensive reasons. Yoshida is adequate in Fenway's left field, but not as adequate in other more spacious outfields, where a Refsnyder or similar type would be more beneficial. On those days Yoshida could be DH.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

IMO, Verdugo isn't the type of guy you extend. The good, not great players you extend have a tendency to hamstring your ability to improve the roster spot. The Sox have a pretty solid offense and upgrading or even matching Verdugo theoretically shouldn't be that tough. While different skillsets, Duvall and Renfroe type players have been readily available annually and are lower risk than a Verdugo extension.

 

[simplicio]

IMO, Verdugo isn't the type of guy you extend. The good, not great players you extend have a tendency to hamstring your ability to improve the roster spot. The Sox have a pretty solid offense and upgrading or even matching Verdugo theoretically shouldn't be that tough. While different skillsets, Duvall and Renfroe type players have been readily available annually and are lower risk than a Verdugo extension.

Good (young) players on reasonable contracts are pretty much always tradeable though.

 

[WheresDewey]

There's no hurry to offer Verdugo an extension. See how he does the rest of the year and how the farm develops. If Rafaela isn't knocking on the door, you can decide then.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Given he got benched today for unknown reasons and Cora is on the warpath about it, I highly doubt he’ll be extended. In fact I expect him to be dealt this winter:

View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1687964625684385792?s=46&t=0BmQ-9TYN7pIIfzDCoYxZA

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Given he got benched today for unknown reasons and Cora is on the warpath about it, I highly doubt he’ll be extended. In fact I expect him to be dealt this winter:

View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1687964625684385792?s=46&t=0BmQ-9TYN7pIIfzDCoYxZA

Cora has called out Verdugo multiple times the last 2 years.

It appears this is the final nail in the coffin. Totally agree on the thought he will be dealt.

 

[beautokyo]

Given he got benched today for unknown reasons and Cora is on the warpath about it, I highly doubt he’ll be extended. In fact I expect him to be dealt this winter:

View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1687964625684385792?s=46&t=0BmQ-9TYN7pIIfzDCoYxZA

This was not something I was looking forward to hearing. I had hoped once the TD was done he'd get back on track but it seems that's not going to happen. I had hoped he was going to be dealt this year but probably other teams have the scoop on him.

 

[EyeBob]

Maybe Verdugo himself wanted to be traded? Miffed that he wasn’t (among other things)?

 

[Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat]

Maybe Verdugo himself wanted to be traded? Miffed that he wasn’t (among other things)?

He expressed real relief that he wasn't. I don't think he has that kind of poker face

 

[curly2]

I don't think he has that kind of poker face

Agreed. I picture Verdugo at a hold 'em table, seeing a flop and saying, "Hot damn, ANOTHER ace!"

 

[YTF]

Agreed. I picture Verdugo at a hold 'em table, seeing a flop and saying, "Hot damn, ANOTHER ace!"

When a two, five and seven are turned.

 

[curly2]

When a two, five and seven are turned.

Nice

 

[YTF]

Nice

On a more serious note, I love the enthusiasm that we've seen from him at times. I love the effort that he's shown us that he's capable of giving this year. That said, as he heads into his age 28 season, he seems to show occasional signs of professional immaturity (not sure if that's the correct way to put it) that affects him and possibly the team. There's no way of knowing if today's outcome would have been different had he played, but he is a good enough player that he can affect the outcome of a game defensively or at the plate.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

Verdugo has been benched at least one other time this season. Was there anything in yesterday's game that potentially led to the benching today? The given reason was tardiness. I'm sure that contributed to it, but I imagine there's something else going on here.

View: https://twitter.com/NESN/status/1687970662202159104

 

[brandonchristensen]

He looks not well there.

 

[Yaz4Ever]

Verdugo has been benched at least one other time this season. Was there anything in yesterday's game that potentially led to the benching today? The given reason was tardiness. I'm sure that contributed to it, but I imagine there's something else going on here.

View: https://twitter.com/NESN/status/1687970662202159104

I'm as curious as anyone t know why the manager made that decision, but I think Verdugo handled himself very well in that interview. They would've loved for him to trash Cora, but he didn't. He came across as frustrated, but mature. I honestly think there's issues between the two players - not sure whose fault that is because I'm not in the clubhouse - and I think one of them will be gone during the offseason.

edit: sorry, didn't address the topic at hand as I intended to. @Sandy Leon Trotsky brought up these extensions:

Verdugo- offer 5/$80. He's been slumping but still provides good RF defense, an above average bat and appears to be a team leader. If he turns it down, look to trade him in the offseason. Based on his performance since the All-Star Break and whatever is going on between him and Cora, I think he's dealt this offseason. I'd be fine trying to extend him, personally, but think he's the one out of he and Cora to be shipped out this offseason. Rafaela is tearing it up right now and we still have Bleis and Anthony in the system. Rafaela replacing Duvall in CF and moving Masa to DH frees up space for the youngsters over the next few years without having to move Verdugo, but we'll see.

McGuire- go year to year to see how C in the mL's develop. McGuire is controlled for 4 more seasons... will start to get expensive after next year (or at least more than his talent should get). Meh. I'd much prefer Wong in the games, but McGuire isn't a bad backup. We have him under control for a bit. He is what he is. I agree year to year.

Pivetta- bring him back despite salary in '24 likely being more than he's worth but keep an eye open for trades. I love what Pivetta has given us in long relief, but he's one of the first I'd try to sell high on this offseason. I don't think he's looking at an extension and won't likely be here in '24.

Casas- sign him long term. He's young and a good 10 year extension would take him through his most productive years. Offer $120M/10 (am I crazy?) Lock this kid down. I don't think $12M AAV gets it done, but it's a lot more than what he's making now and will make for a couple of years. If we can lock him down on a Braves style extension, I'll be stoked.

Duran- go year to year. He's already relatively old and even if this season is his true talent level, they still have him for 4 more years. If he produces next year like this, then consider a 5 year/$80M. I'd like to believe what we're seeing this year is the real deal, but I don't know. I'd love to keep him around but I wouldn't be surprised if they shop him around this offseason. I don't think management is sold on him being what we're seeing.

Wong- go year to year. Same as Duran.... I'm really liking Wong and suspect his framing skills will improve as will his BA/OBP. I can see him at a .750 OPS with top line defense for 3 seasons and then a tailing off. I agree. Year to year. Teel should be up in 3 years or so. If you can get him to sign cheaply for 5 years, lock him down, but he's not going to block Teel.

Bello- sign him long term. Similar to Casas.... I'd probably keep it closer to 8 years for around $10M per. Agreed. Lock him down. Braves type extension to buy out his cheap years, like Casas.

Houck- year to year. I just don't know what to expect out of him... looks great.... looks bad.... He just needs some consistency so I'd put him in the Duran/Wong bucket. I'm higher on Houck than most. Similar to Wong, though, if you can sign him to a reasonable deal, do so. Otherwise year to year. Not breaking the bank on him, obviously.

Crawford- I'm starting to come around on Crawford as what I was thinking Pivetta could be (and actually is) but young enough to also put in a 7-8 year offer to. He doesn't have the pedigree of Bello but has been pitching just about as good. I don't know how to manage egos, but I'd go for a 6 year/$60M. I'm not as sold on him, yet, but this seems reasonable to me. He's 27, so this deal should see the best he's got.

 

[beautokyo]

When a two, five and seven are turned.

Ahhhhh ........the old Kangaroo straight

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

I'm as curious as anyone t know why the manager made that decision, but I think Verdugo handled himself very well in that interview. They would've loved for him to trash Cora, but he didn't. He came across as frustrated, but mature. I honestly think there's issues between the two players - not sure whose fault that is because I'm not in the clubhouse - and I think one of them will be gone during the offseason.

Agreed on Verdugo handling himself well in that interview. To be clear, I assume you're saying that one of Verdugo or Cora will be gone this offseason? The impression that I get is that Cora knows his players and knows how to motivate players specific to their personality. My recollection on Duran last year as an example was more consoling after the Tapia inside the park home run. With Verdugo it appears that he's taken the tough love approach as a means of discipline. I believe in the past with Devers he's tried to motivate him with Chipotle gift cards.