End of an Era: Bill Belichick and Patriots to part ways

[Kull]

I was referring to the reports that Kraft and Bill had multiple discussions, starting the Monday after the loss to the Jets, and those discussions revolved around ways to potentially move forward. Nobody has disputed the official narrative around the nature of those discussions.

I think those reports have been misunderstood. In the follow-on press conference, RK specifically states that Bill came to him with the proposal to "relinquish some of his duties", but that Bob felt it "wouldn't work". To me, that clearly implies that the decision had already been made. Bill was willing to alter his roles, but Kraft had already made up his mind. Here's the specific Q&A (link to the transcript of the entire press conference is provided at bottom)"

Q: On Monday, Bill spoke about the possibility of relinquishing some of his duties in the personnel department. How much consideration did you give to retaining Bill, but maybe adjusting his role?

RKK: Yeah, we thought about that, but, I've had experience running different businesses and trying to develop a team. Think about it, when you have someone like Bill, who's had control over every decision, every coach we hire, the organization reports to him on the draft, and how much money we spend. Every decision has been his, and we've always supported him. To then take some of that power away and give it to someone else – accountability is important to me in every one of our companies, and where he had the responsibility and then someone else takes it, it's going to set up confusion. And, 'It was his pick and that was a bad pick', or 'He didn't play them right'. It just wouldn't work, in my opinion.

https://www.patriots.com/news/transcript-robert-kraft-press-conference-1-11

Edit: To be clear, that means there wasn't a "discussion". Bill suggested a path forward and Kraft rejected it out of hand.

 

[Myt1]

I’m not capable of making an exhaustive list. But we can start with physical infrastructure. The Kraft’s built the practice and training facilities in Foxboro, and have invested in those for years. They were far ahead of many franchises, who have built similar facilities only relatively recently.

Doesn’t have to be exhaustive. But my understanding is that players have graded the physical infrastructure particularly poorly over the years. https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/03/01/patriots-gillette-stadium-nflpa-grade-locker-room/

 

[NortheasternPJ]

To be clear, that means there wasn't a "discussion". Bill suggested a path forward and Kraft rejected it out of hand.

If you think Bill suggested it as as serious path forward, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[Kull]

If you think Bill suggested it as as serious path forward, I've got a bridge to sell you.

Great response. I provide actual quotes and you have an opinion. Excellent work.

 

[BigJimEd]

Doesn’t have to be exhaustive. But my understanding is that players have graded the physical infrastructure particularly poorly over the years. https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/03/01/patriots-gillette-stadium-nflpa-grade-locker-room/

Yes, the facilities haven't been a selling point among players. To be fair though, they did build a new weight room and made other changes last off season.

 

[BaseballJones]

Great response. I provide actual quotes and you have an opinion. Excellent work.

Actually, you provided some quotes and then at the end offered your opinion. Then he offered his own opinion.

 

[Kull]

Actually, you provided some quotes and then at the end offered your opinion. Then he offered his own opinion.

No, it was my attempt to summarize the text quoted above. If i delete the summary, would that improve the post? Honest question.

 

[BaseballJones]

No, it was my attempt to summarize the text quoted above. If i delete the summary, would that improve the post? Honest question.

The opinion you offered was when you said, "To be clear, that means there wasn't a "discussion". Bill suggested a path forward and Kraft rejected it out of hand." You don't know that that's true. The quotes give no indication that Kraft "rejected it out of hand". Kraft literally said "we thought about that". Giving a proposal some thought and then deciding that it wouldn't work isn't at all the same as "rejecting it out of hand".

So you offered your opinion on what the quotes meant, and he offered his opinion on the matter as well.

Now, to answer your question, yes if you're going to come at someone for offering his opinion while you offered only quotes and facts, it would improve your position if you didn't also offer your opinion.

Just my two cents, which you are more than welcome to take or leave. I'm certainly not the arbiter of truth nor a mod in this forum. It just struck me as odd that you'd criticize him for responding to your post with an opinion when you gave your own opinion at the end of your own post.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

The opinion you offered was when you said, "To be clear, that means there wasn't a "discussion". Bill suggested a path forward and Kraft rejected it out of hand." You don't know that that's true. The quotes give no indication that Kraft "rejected it out of hand". Kraft literally said "we thought about that". Giving a proposal some thought and then deciding that it wouldn't work isn't at all the same as "rejecting it out of hand".

So you offered your opinion on what the quotes meant, and he offered his opinion on the matter as well.

Now, to answer your question, yes if you're going to come at someone for offering his opinion while you offered only quotes and facts, it would improve your position if you didn't also offer your opinion.

Just my two cents, which you are more than welcome to take or leave. I'm certainly not the arbiter of truth nor a mod in this forum. It just struck me as odd that you'd criticize him for responding to your post with an opinion when you gave your own opinion at the end of your own post.

My real point was taking either Kraft or BB at face value is an awful thing to do. It's rather clear from everything going on that BB knew he was gone or at least suspected it unless he gave up significant control, BB was going to lose 100% control if he did stay, the Krafts decided during the year he was gone. BB was never coming hat in hand to the Krafts to save his job, the Monday availability was all about spin.

BB was posturing, Kraft was posturing and it's over.

 

[Kull]

The opinion you offered was when you said, "To be clear, that means there wasn't a "discussion". Bill suggested a path forward and Kraft rejected it out of hand." You don't know that that's true. The quotes give no indication that Kraft "rejected it out of hand". Kraft literally said "we thought about that". Giving a proposal some thought and then deciding that it wouldn't work isn't at all the same as "rejecting it out of hand".

So you offered your opinion on what the quotes meant, and he offered his opinion on the matter as well.

Now, to answer your question, yes if you're going to come at someone for offering his opinion while you offered only quotes and facts, it would improve your position if you didn't also offer your opinion.

Just my two cents, which you are more than welcome to take or leave. I'm certainly not the arbiter of truth nor a mod in this forum. It just struck me as odd that you'd criticize him for responding to your post with an opinion when you gave your own opinion at the end of your own post.

Valid points. Since the comment is now included in other posts, I gave it a strike-through rather than a delete. That said, the basis for that opinion was the quoted comment from RK:

"It just wouldn't work, in my opinion."

That doesn't sound like there was a discussion. It was Bob's opinion that it wouldn't work and he proceeded accordingly.

 

[Kull]

My real point was taking either Kraft or BB at face value is an awful thing to do. It's rather clear from everything going on that BB knew he was gone or at least suspected it unless he gave up significant control, BB was going to lose 100% control if he did stay, the Krafts decided during the year he was gone. BB was never coming hat in hand to the Krafts to save his job, the Monday availability was all about spin.

BB was posturing, Kraft was posturing and it's over.

That's a fair analysis, but Bill says he made an offer (which may or may not have been posturing - we don't know) and RK confirms it. I was trying to refute the idea that there was a discussion on reduced roles and they couldn't come to an agreement. The comments from RK don't support that.

 

[8slim]

Doesn’t have to be exhaustive. But my understanding is that players have graded the physical infrastructure particularly poorly over the years. https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/03/01/patriots-gillette-stadium-nflpa-grade-locker-room/

Fair. Perhaps they were ahead, then fell behind.

 

[Myt1]

Fair. Perhaps they were ahead, then fell behind.

I’m nowhere near as invested or informed as most of the rest of you guys are these days. This just happened to be one of the things that stuck in my lint trap of a brain.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Fair. Perhaps they were ahead, then fell behind.

There might be some road training sites bleeding into the players' vote. BB has booked them into some odd facilities down south and out west over the years.

 

[lexrageorge]

Doesn’t have to be exhaustive. But my understanding is that players have graded the physical infrastructure particularly poorly over the years. https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2023/03/01/patriots-gillette-stadium-nflpa-grade-locker-room/

The facilities were top-notch when they opened in 2002, then fell behind the rest of the league with the passage of 20 years. A major renovation and expansion of the team's training facilities happened this past offseason, results of which were not captured in that survey.

Overall, I don't have an issue with the owners. They let Bill essentially run the show for over 20+ years. I don't see all these signs of dysfunction across the organization that some do. And without the Krafts the team would have been in St Louis for the Brady era.

 

[8slim]

And without the Krafts the team would have been in St Louis for the Brady era.

Ultimately this is *by far* the legacy of the Krafts. The team was on its way to St. Louis. They already had a name (Stallions) and uniform designed.

A few years later, and thanks to deftly playing the CT state legislature, we had a state of the art stadium in place of the dumpiest pile of concrete and steel ever constructed.

 

[Justthetippett]

Any beef we have with the Kraft's is clearly a "first world" NFL fandom issue. They've given us more than we could ever expect or deserve. But that won't stop the grousing when Jonathan lectures us on his football knowledge. We can't help ourselves.

 

[DJnVa]

Getting teams in 2nd and 3rd and long is every team's gameplan Peyton.

 

[DJnVa]

Eli: "I bet Philly gets away from some of that man to man they were using earlier.....(big play)....well, zone is not working either."

 

[RG33]

I do have trust in RK and JK based on the last 20+ years. I think they have shown to make thoughtful, measured decisions along the way and to be focused on the long-term healthy of the franchise. This has been illustrated imo through things like what RK did with the NFL lockout, how he handled the DFG and Brady stuff, and how they have chose Mayo as a leader that was worthy of being groomed the last 5+ years as the successor to an all-time great. I have literally zero concern that they will become “meddlesome”, it is just not how they have done things.

With that said, I think what some people are missing is how difficult it is to change the culture of an organization when you have someone as domineering as BB at the head of it (both in personality and the power that was borne from the structure). “Change management” is the hardest thing to do in a big organization, and clearly the Krafts see people and parts of the organization that they still have confidence in. I’m sure they had conversations with BB about changing roles and taking final personnel decisions away, etc., but I would guess the reality was that it was almost 100% out of respect and that there was no way that it was ever going to happen. It was time to move on in their estimation, and in order to empower the next generation in the building that they did still have confidence in, they had to remove BB from the equation.

I was fine with BB coming back for another year and fully anticipate him going to another organization and being wildly successful, but I totally understand why they did what they did and whether it works out long-term for the Patriots or not, I’m comfortable it is another thoughtful and measured decision by the Krafts.