Not an expert on Karras, but from what I gather, he’s decent. PFF has him ranked 20th last year, one spot ahead of Daniel Kilgore.
Hate to see what? From a Pats fan perspective this is good news, it means that Andrews is more likely to return
Agree. I wasn't thrilled with Karras play either last season and actually glad he moved on. The Patriots can find someone cheaper and more athletic than him.Hate to see what? From a Pats fan perspective this is good news, it means that Andrews is more likely to return
Hate to see it as in - hate to see a guy who would have been a back-up on the Patriots this year be forced into a starting role on the Dolphins?
I see this as a depth/competition signing, as Karras has experience at both C and G. I wouldn't rule out Dieter at the C position, and it's still very likely that Miami drafts added competition. I don't think Karras is an ideal fit for the Dolphins, for as was mentioned, he's not the most athletic; however, Miami's offensive line was dog shit last year, and he'll be solid. It's a 1 year deal, which is perfect.
I’m very much in the same boat. Miami has been blessed by the football gods and may have Tua dropped squarely into their laps.I've always hated waiting for the NFL Draft, even before the league opted to make the wait even longer a number of years ago. Still, I knew this season would likely be the hardest of them all, as the wait really began at the beginning of the season, once it became clear that Miami was "cleaning house," subsequently putting the team in position to land Tua, the preseason choice for the top pick in late April. Now, to make matters even worse, we've all had to sit down and bide our time without the typical distractions. You know, other sports. So, amidst the quiet of empty stadiums, all that's left to do is ruminate on the latest draft rumors, unless you're disciplined (or bright) enough to just disconnect the WiFi. Brutal.
All that said, the pain will have been worth it if Tua's a Dolphin come April 23rd. Despite failing to fail triumphantly enough in a league with just a handful of above-average head coaches, Miami lucked into an unlikely set of circumstances. Tua's injury -- combined with the emergence of Burrow, the presence of an elite defender like Young, and the right handful of teams picking ahead of them -- has blessed the Dolphins with a second chance at securing the franchise QB.
Now, while unlikely, if some team, such as the Chargers, pays an absolute ransom to the Lions for the opportunity to draft Tua at #3, I can live with that. (Barely.) However, if the Dolphins are jumped in exchange for a reasonable cost or choose to pass on Tua if/when he's available at #5, I'll be shocked, deeply saddened, and then absolutely livid.
Perhaps I'm just drinking the Kool-Aid, but with Burrow practically unattainable, I think Miami's all-in on Tua, and years from now, we'll laugh at the pre-draft suggestions that included drafting Herbert or Love, or even trading back for additional picks. Miami's just smarter now, right? Well managed? Well-versed in the art of misdirection?
Goodness, I hope so. It's Tua or bust for me, and the NFL Draft just can't get here fast enough.
I think Fromm is basically Andy Dalton where he can be average to above average, and if you surround him with a spectacular cast he can lead your team to the playoffs. I would say I’m higher on him than most, but also recognize that his upside is pretty limited.There is almost nothing about Herbert that I have seen or read that makes me feel good about him. In fact, if someone jumps to get Tua and Miami has their three picks, I wouldn't take a QB and get two stud tackles and a DL or a safety with the three picks, then get a RB and WR or Edge. I don't love Love either. And I have no idea on Hursts. In fact, I think Fromm might be third best QB from what I have seen. If you can't get him in third or 4th round then sign Jameis for one or two years to see if there is anything there.
Listening to the major draft talking heads and guys who tend to be pretty accurate and in-the-know and I wouldn't be surprised if Miami did not take Tua at 5. The issues with him are durability. He's a smaller QB with a significant injury history. They might take a premiere OT and trade back up for Tua who could slide all the way to the Raiders at 12. I've heard his range is more likely 9-12 than 5-8. The Fins have been tied to Herbert too. I am nowhere near as down on him than you. My own personal board has an option for either higher floor picks or some higher ceiling guys who need more work so depending on how you go he is 31st or 46th. But because he could turn into a quality starter he is going to go much higher than that. Herbert reminds me a lot of Carson Wentz but with shakier decision making and not as much touch. I think he has an even better arm and is more athletic. I am not sure the best system fit for Herbert but I'd like it if they incorporated more runs for him.I think Fromm is basically Andy Dalton where he can be average to above average, and if you surround him with a spectacular cast he can lead your team to the playoffs. I would say I’m higher on him than most, but also recognize that his upside is pretty limited.
Herbert is.... big? Athletic? Seems like a smart kid? That’s all I’ve got. I don’t see him as a significant upgrade over Josh Rosen. That’s about where I stand on him.
I think he best fits, ironically, in a Titans/Tannehill style of run first, playaction passing type of offense where he can make plays on the move and use his athleticism more. His legs were oddly underutilized at Oregon.Listening to the major draft talking heads and guys who tend to be pretty accurate and in-the-know and I wouldn't be surprised if Miami did not take Tua at 5. The issues with him are durability. He's a smaller QB with a significant injury history. They might take a premiere OT and trade back up for Tua who could slide all the way to the Raiders at 12. I've heard his range is more likely 9-12 than 5-8. The Fins have been tied to Herbert too. I am nowhere near as down on him than you. My own personal board has an option for either higher floor picks or some higher ceiling guys who need more work so depending on how you go he is 31st or 46th. But because he could turn into a quality starter he is going to go much higher than that. Herbert reminds me a lot of Carson Wentz but with shakier decision making and not as much touch. I think he has an even better arm and is more athletic. I am not sure the best system fit for Herbert but I'd like it if they incorporated more runs for him.
Just to touch on the Flores and BB parallels, I think the one thing that Flores has absolutely taken from Belichick’s playbook is building the defense from the secondary in. It seems like BB has placed a premium on DBs and has been much more inclined to let front 7 players come and go throughout NE.Seems like Flores is taking one from the BB playbook in terms of bringing in mid-tier veterans who know his style to help infuse that culture through the ranks. BB did it in 2000 and 2001 with guys like Phifer, Pleasant, Cox, Otis, et al. Flores is doing it here with Van Noy, Roberts, Karras. I wouldn't be surprised to see a couple more.
I've heard that he is a leader but it took him a few years to find his inner leadership qualities. He's a smart guy, 4.0 GPA major in biology. He didn't even think he would be the starter at Oregon. By year 3/4 he came into his own as a person. And teams liked his leadership qualities at the senior bowl. He has had one of the better pre-draft processes of the group.I think he best fits, ironically, in a Titans/Tannehill style of run first, playaction passing type of offense where he can make plays on the move and use his athleticism more. His legs were oddly underutilized at Oregon.
My biggest concerns are his poor accuracy, and his alleged lack of leadership intangibles. His completion percentage is misleading and padded by an insane amount of screen passes. He’s almost a complete contrast to Tua, who has elite accuracy and off the charts intangibles.
Lamar Jackson scored a 13. Pretty sure he’s doing ok.Tua scored a 13 on the Wonderlic? come on...
View: https://twitter.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1251236319801610241?s=20
discriminates against Samonans or residents of Hawaii? I know the test is nonsense, but my point is the guy has had months and months to prepare and scored poorly. That's weak sauce. I did not know that was last year's score, however. My concern with Tua is not his score...its the Draft Network data that shows he's a below average college quarterback in any situation but a clean pocket. As a Dolphins fan, I can assume you he will not see a clean pocket quite as often as he did at Alabama.Annual reminder that tests like the Wonderlic are garbage and have racially disparate outcomes. We’re not hiring for Boston Consulting Group. Nothing to see here. Move along.
Lamar scored a 13 IIRC. He was MVP last year. Also there is NO correlation between Wonderlic and processing speed. There's no correlation between the Wonderlic and virtually anything football wise. Brady is the best and fastest processor and he scored around a 25. IQ doesn't measure football speed. Maybe he just doesn't give a shit about the test?discriminates against Samonans or residents of Hawaii? I know the test is nonsense, but my point is the guy has had months and months to prepare and scored poorly. That's weak sauce. I did not know that was last year's score, however. My concern with Tua is not his score...its the Draft Network data that shows he's a below average college quarterback in any situation but a clean pocket. As a Dolphins fan, I can assume you he will not see a clean pocket quite as often as he did at Alabama.
If you want a great deep-dive look at Tua and his personality, leadership skills, etc. I highly suggest Thursday's Move the Sticks podcast that has interviews with Tua, his parents, high school coaches, etc. then a pretty good analysis of him the Move the Sticks guys. They Love him and his character. He certainly has the "IT" factor that Grier has mentioned before, much mores than Herbert, that's for sure. I think they are taking Tua. I think the Herbert love was all a smokescreen.
18 is an interesting spot for Miami. It’s less than likely that one of the top OTs is still on the board. Jones is a bit of a reach there. I can see Miami trading back if someone like Kinlaw doesn’t end up sliding down to them.Lamar scored a 13 IIRC. He was MVP last year. Also there is NO correlation between Wonderlic and processing speed. There's no correlation between the Wonderlic and virtually anything football wise. Brady is the best and fastest processor and he scored around a 25. IQ doesn't measure football speed. Maybe he just doesn't give a shit about the test?
I did listen to the MTS podcast - it's a crucial source of information for me. Great pod too. The issue for Tua to me is that when he is under pressure he doesn't know to just let the play die - he fights to extend it and can make poor decisions. Carson Wentz had that issue. Jimmy G had similar pocket issues too. I feel the opposite as you - I think Tua is going to slide and they actually do love Herbert. Usually tomorrow or Tuesday you start to hear the leakiest of the leaks come out so we will see. PFF has done analysis that shows that how well you perform with a clean pocket is the best predictor of any of those stats for NFL success so he has that going for him. I think you can teach a guy to be a little more conservative but I think it's harder to teach a guy more calculated aggression. That also bodes well for Tua. My concern is that he's a small QB with an extensive injury history and everything I've seen and heard from Miami makes me thing they are going Herbert's direction. Like you said, could be a smokescreen though.
Aside from the draft contest I will donate $50 to the Jimmy Fund if the Fins take Tua at 5, 4, or 3. If they take him later on I'll go $25. No need to take the other side of that bet - I just like putting my money where my mouth is around this time of year and if I am wrong then cool - money goes to charity. Every little bit helps and I am wrong >50% of the time .
I think they go OT, Josh Jones at 18 if he is still there.
26 I have no idea - maybe a corner? Linebacker? Murray or Queen?
Curious who you Fins fans covet - I listen to a lot of Kyle Crabbs so I hear a lot of Dolphins talk.
Seems to be reports now of Miami looking to trade up out of 18 and into the higher teens to select an OT. I guess a lot of it depends on what starts to shake down on draft night.I've run about 15 mock drafts and 18 always seems the toughest pick...if you take an Tua first, then you can get a safety or WR. The tackles available there are not likely day 1 starters, more like guys like Jones or Jackson.
What is more important, somewhat risky franchise QB or a higher probability franchise OT? I think you can get a high-risk franchise QB (Herbert, Love, Hurts) later but almost no chance of getting franchise OT after 10. I think Tua upside is likely worth it to Dolphins, but I also think you then trade for Williams and draft Jackson from USC, who is only 20 years old
worse case to me is taking Herbert with 5...lowest upside draft possible
I think Miami's done relatively well keeping everyone guessing, which is what you want from your team's FO. With the Flores/Grier duo in charge now, they've seemed to manage to keep Ross' lips in check, which was an issue when Tannenbaum was at the helm.If someone jumps them for Tua, and it’s Herbert or Love, that’s a different story. One of them will likely slide into the teens where you can get them with the second first rounder.
I love the NFL, where the argument is... "this QB isn't an alpha leader so take the guy who is" instead of "This guy isn't very good at actually playing QB and misses amost 20% of open throws, while the other guy is a really good QB with great accuracy"Boys, I think it’s time to start getting hyped.
View: https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1252606796767903744?s=21
If anyone listened to Flores or Grier speak when they talked about what they were looking for in a QB, this was always the road we were going down.
Flores said they want a leader, someone with the “It” factor. Someone the team will rally around and play for. Tua has that in spades, and after watching Tannehill for nearly a decade, I don’t think it’s something that you can teach.
We might be two days away from Miami not screwing this up.
I agree to an extent. IMO, Tua is the better prospect on and off the field. If he doesn’t dislocate his hip, the gulf between he and Herbert would be massive. If he doesn’t dislocate his hip, Miami is probably coughing up multiple first rounders to get him.I love the NFL, where the argument is... "this QB isn't an alpha leader so take the guy who is" instead of "This guy isn't very good at actually playing QB and misses amost 20% of open throws, while the other guy is a really good QB with great accuracy"
The big questions now are ... will Tua slide to 5 or will Miami need to trade up to 3? And are they willing to do so?Boys, I think it’s time to start getting hyped.
View: https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1252606796767903744?s=21
If anyone listened to Flores or Grier speak when they talked about what they were looking for in a QB, this was always the road we were going down.
Flores said they want a leader, someone with the “It” factor. Someone the team will rally around and play for. Tua has that in spades, and after watching Tannehill for nearly a decade, I don’t think it’s something that you can teach.
We might be two days away from Miami not screwing this up.
Their biggest competition is obviously LAC. They most feel somewhat comfortable they they’re leaning Herbert after their GM came out and talked about how important injury history is and the best ability is availability, etc.Edit: I misinterpreted Cellar's post. Updated accordingly!
The big questions now are ... will Tua slide to 5 or will Miami need to trade up to 3? And are they willing to do so?
Miami drafting Tua at 5 and then trading up (AZ, JAX?) for a top OT would be my idea of the ideal start to this draft for Miami. At this point, the wait for Thursday has become excruciatingly difficult for me. I tend to agree that Plan B is similar to what you detailed.Their biggest competition is obviously LAC. They most feel somewhat comfortable they they’re leaning Herbert after their GM came out and talked about how important injury history is and the best ability is availability, etc.
To me, it seems like they are ok with either of the following scenarios:
Draft Tua at 5, trade up for OT
Tua is gone, draft OT at 5 and get Jordan Love.
My preference remains Tua and trade up for an OT, but we shall see.
Interesting to think about. I think you have Love and Rosen battle it out for QB2, and you have to give Love at least a full year, especially with this offseason likely to be very unlike any training camp or OTA period that there’s been.If that second scenario happens, will they draft another QB next year or wait until 2022?
Yeah, if Watson were to get hurt, for istance -- which has happened before -- the situation in Houston could get really ugly fast, leading to an unexpected Top 1-3 pick. That said, if MIA lands Tua, I think they'll be out of the QB game for quite a bit. At least that's the expectation.Interesting to think about. I think you have Love and Rosen battle it out for QB2, and you have to give Love at least a full year, especially with this offseason likely to be very unlike any training camp or OTA period that there’s been.
I would assume they would be out of the QB market until at least the 2022 draft, but stranger things have happened. Miami is unlikely to be bad enough to get Trevor Lawrence. So would they punt on a truncated season of Love and trade up to get Justin Fields? Hard to know.
By all accounts they don’t want to trade up for him. So now who’s plugged into SD?View: https://twitter.com/cannatapfn/status/1252993118158368768?s=21
Darlington is the most plugged in guy to Miami in the national media, and was right about Brady leaving weeks in advance. If he says Miami is strongly leaning Tua, it means they are.
I’m not going to claim to have great knowledge of LA’s front office, but it sounds more and more likely that they’re scared off of Tua and prefer Herbert because they highly value health. Which is probably related to LA having had some of the worst injury luck in the NFL the last few years.By all accounts they don’t want to trade up for him. So now who’s plugged into SD?
Not going to happen -- Bob Quinn has already stated this emphatically. Some writers in that area have speculated that the Lions initially tried to play coy with their intentions (making it seem like QB was a possibility in order to generate trade interest), but then pivoted when their current QB, Stafford, didn't appreciate the lack of public confidence. (We fans do, at times, forget that teams are managing/collaborating with people, after all.) This all mentioned, I think the question, "Why not Tua?" is a good one. And the answer explains why few organizations ever get within sniffing distance of the Patriots.Any reason to think Detroit might stay and take a QB at 3? Would be a shocker but Stafford is getting kind of old.
Who knows what to believe at this point, but MIA does have the ammo to trade up from 18 to 3. If MIA had 3 and 5, they'd have their choice of OT and Tua, though at likely heavy cost (draft capital).