Do you really not understand what happened on the play and why a penalty wasn't called? How many times will it need to be explained before you get it? Seriously, take a minute and reread OCD's post. Then process what it says. You can do it. Honest.
Did the Patriots get jobbed in SB52?
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Because some people are pissed. Not you. Not everyone. But some posters on this thread and others are clearly angry about...something.
For my part, I do think the Pats got jobbed in this game. I thought so at the time and agree w Baseball Jones and SJH that this would be a goddamn national crisis if the league had changed the rules to help the Pats – particularly after benefitting from the opposite application of the rule earlier in the season. In that sense I’m almost happy controversial calls didn’t go their way because if they had we’d be hearing about how “the better team didn’t win” (with perhaps some justification).
But again, we’ve won five. They’ve all been glorious. Something was off with this team all year. Who knows what it was. And even still, they came a hair’s breath from winning #6.
So to sum up:
- Ertz TD unquestionably a TD. Only crazy people would argue otherwise, frankly.
- Philly Special violation not a big deal. Ref approved, player had zero impact on the play.
- Clement TD should have been ruled No TD. League may have been making up rules as they went along for that game, which is completely unacceptable but just about the bare minimum of corruption and incompetence I expect from this batch of jackwagons.
- Eagles deserved to win the game. Full stop.
- Ertz TD unquestionably a TD. Only crazy people would argue otherwise, frankly.
- Philly Special violation not a big deal. Ref approved, player had zero impact on the play.
- Clement TD should have been ruled No TD. League may have been making up rules as they went along for that game, which is completely unacceptable but just about the bare minimum of corruption and incompetence I expect from this batch of jackwagons.
- Eagles deserved to win the game. Full stop.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
I thought Philly played great. I think the Clement touchdown...was a great throw. I didn't think the coverage was bad. It was a pretty small window and Foles absolutely drilled it. Of course it was incomplete, but whatever. The throw was on the money. He made a ton of great throws. And the receivers kept making great catch after great catch. It helped both offenses that the refs didn't call a single offensive holding penalty, and that the O-lines were free to maul defenders. Again, that helped both offenses, not just Philly's. I think if they call that game by regular season standards, there aren't 74 points scored in the game.
Missed one
- Jordan Richards is the worst player to ever step on the field in a SB wearing a Patriots uniform
Tony Eason's 1984 and 1986 seasons were pretty solid actually.
1984: 60.1%, 3228 yds, 23 td, 8 int, 93.4 rating (league avg: 73.2) - Eason finished 3rd in the NFL in passer rating
1986: 61.6%, 3328 yds, 19 td, 10 int, 89.2 rating (league avg: 71.5) - Eason finished 4th in the NFL in passer rating
Jordan Richards has never come close to that level of competence in the NFL.
1984: 60.1%, 3228 yds, 23 td, 8 int, 93.4 rating (league avg: 73.2) - Eason finished 3rd in the NFL in passer rating
1986: 61.6%, 3328 yds, 19 td, 10 int, 89.2 rating (league avg: 71.5) - Eason finished 4th in the NFL in passer rating
Jordan Richards has never come close to that level of competence in the NFL.
I did not take that as, "the worst performance by a Patriot in a Super Bowl." I took it as, "the worst Patriots' player to play in a Super Bowl."
This is what Steratore was recorded as saying on the field.
"Referee Gene Steratore, who was mic’d up for the game, said this when explaining the decision to another official, said this: “It sticks here and then it goes there, but he never loses control. Is there a little ball movement? Yes. But that does not deem loss of control. You know? It goes from here, sticks on the forearm, right back to the hand, touchdown.”
How does that not signal that they called this play differently than in the rest of the season?
"Referee Gene Steratore, who was mic’d up for the game, said this when explaining the decision to another official, said this: “It sticks here and then it goes there, but he never loses control. Is there a little ball movement? Yes. But that does not deem loss of control. You know? It goes from here, sticks on the forearm, right back to the hand, touchdown.”
How does that not signal that they called this play differently than in the rest of the season?
Enjoy your victory over the straw-man you just created.
I was reacting the the thread title and initial post, which asks, provocatively, whether the Patriots got jobbed in the SB. Jobbed as in the fix was in, the outcome was predetermined by corruption, conspiracy, fraud, etc.
Score aside, that SB was the biggest ass kicking in SB history. The game was not remotely competitive after Pats jumped out to a 3-zip lead. Pats destroyed along both lines. John Hannah was dominated. (Yes, John fucking Hannah, which is a shame because it was his last game). Eason was bad, Grogan was not much better (garbage stats), and Brady would have walked out of there a big loser — if he had walked out of there at all.
Ball is out of control, foot is down out of bounds, this is more clear than the Austin Sefarian-Jenkins play in the NYJ game
Well yeah, I mean he was 8 years old. Still probably would have racked up like 150 yards and a TD though...
Ya know who might have been worse than Eason in that game? Linebacker Larry McGrew. Teenage Bernie Carbohydrate recalls poor Larry getting destroyed when Refrigerator Perry -- a lineman -- subbed in at RB and scored a TD by barreling right through the Pats defense. It was a true sign of domination -- no trick play, no deception -- everyone in the stadium knew Fridge was gonna get the ball. McGrew got trampled (as did a few other guys on that play).
People forget, but three weeks earlier the Pats marched into Oakland and ran the football down the Howie Longs’ throats. The Raiders were thus embarrassed at home in the playoffs.
So in some quarters the Pats became a SB upset pick. And we know how this works — despite the Bears’ great popularity, people will fight the narrative that the game is a hopeless mismatch. The media especially will fight it.
The Bears were enraged by this, almost to a man. They came with the purpose of inflicting humiliation, complete submission. The Fridge run was part of that. Mission accomplished.
Those 85 Pats were a good team, Berry a good coach. Excellent season, every reason to be proud. But that Bears team was ridiculous, so much so they dominated with a very average QB.
So in some quarters the Pats became a SB upset pick. And we know how this works — despite the Bears’ great popularity, people will fight the narrative that the game is a hopeless mismatch. The media especially will fight it.
The Bears were enraged by this, almost to a man. They came with the purpose of inflicting humiliation, complete submission. The Fridge run was part of that. Mission accomplished.
Those 85 Pats were a good team, Berry a good coach. Excellent season, every reason to be proud. But that Bears team was ridiculous, so much so they dominated with a very average QB.
And also the rumors that Ditka placed a bet on the prop that Fridge would score a TD. It's outright criminal that Sweetness didn't score in that game.
Yeah that was the most depressing thing - watching Hannah get obliterated. Holloway too - two pro-bowlers on the left side got annihilated.
Actually the biggest surprise in that game was that the Bears offense rolled what was a really good Patriots' defense. I could have envisioned a 24-3 game, where the Bears got 7-10 points off Pats' turnovers, but otherwise the Pats' D pretty much held them in check, but it wouldn't have been enough as the Bears' D smothered the Pats' offense. I could have seen that kind of game.
But 46-10? In a game that wasn't even that close? Ugh. Painful.
I remember my elementary school art teacher, a well-meaning but obviously not sports-savvy woman, making the unfortunate decision to make a cardboard model of "The Fridge" and place it outside the school cafeteria after the game. It lasted a day or two before it was gone.
I wonder if some art teacher in St. Louis made a Brady monument in early February, 2002.
The key issue isn't that they screwed it up. It's that Troy Vincent - former Eagle who had NO business being in the replay room - was there giving direction to the replay officials, and that they ruled that play according to a new rule that the NFL hadn't even implemented yet, contrary to the rules current at the time. It wasn't a misjudgment (like two of us can see the same play differently) - it was a miscarriage of justice (NFL style). That's the problem as I see it.
Exactly. This isn't about the final score, but about demonstrable unethical behavior. God, I hate the NFL.
Indeed. I mean, maybe the thread title has gotten people riled up, but if there was an actual change in rules for the game... that's just...
Why??
Incompetence would strike me as necessary but not sufficient here.
I mean, this would be just chaotic and capricious; you can be incompetent without being that.
Except for the fact that both had been overturned earlier this season. Both were common sense TDs that were were overturned at various points in 2017. Just be consistent
Put differently, if that was a Patriot player, which rule is Troy Vincent enforcing? I don't know the answer for certain, but I sure do have an opinion.
Well, it didn't help that the score was 20-3 and Grogan came in before the Patriots got their first first down. This included two straight offensive plays with turnovers. Time of possession must have been about 20-4.
And i think the Bears only scored 20 points on drives starting on their side of the field (and one of the TD drives started at their 41). Not saying the defense was blameless, but it was far far far down the list of problems. (of which the first 9 or so are the already mentioned Tony Eason, then the problems with the line, Craig James inability to run (see previous), and Stanley Morgan having some rare hands issues (key drop on the opening FG drive, and fumble)
There are two issues. The D played poorly. The clement catch wasn’t a TD.
Both can exist in the same world. And that would have led to a long FG attempt. Pats left points on the board early, and didn’t play great on D, but that doesn’t mean the Clement play was a TD, and it was a huge play.
Both can exist in the same world. And that would have led to a long FG attempt. Pats left points on the board early, and didn’t play great on D, but that doesn’t mean the Clement play was a TD, and it was a huge play.
I mean, after video camera and ball tampering scandals, nothing surprises me. This is a league that’s done everything in its power to ensure parity, yet one of the most dominant dynasties in its history refuses to get in line.
And if you say catch rule interpretations don’t matter because the defense couldn’t get off the field, you missed about 12 blatant holding non-calls. The evidence is everywhere. The sooner we all realize the NFL is pro wrestling with better tv deals, the better off we’ll be.
And if you say catch rule interpretations don’t matter because the defense couldn’t get off the field, you missed about 12 blatant holding non-calls. The evidence is everywhere. The sooner we all realize the NFL is pro wrestling with better tv deals, the better off we’ll be.
49ers fans (myself included) will tell you that the league had been calling helmet hits on receivers all year and then refused to call the obvious one on third and goal in the Niners-Ravens super bowl. Crabtree got hit so hard in the head he claimed he was momentarily blinded:
https://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/03/28/crabtree-couldnt-see-moments-before-final-offensive-play-of-super-bowl/
Crappy inconsistent calls from regular season to playoffs are just what we deal with in sports (and I do think that Clement catch should have been overruled). It's never an actual conspiracy against a team, it's just general incompetence in the moment (even on replay).
https://blog.sfgate.com/49ers/2013/03/28/crabtree-couldnt-see-moments-before-final-offensive-play-of-super-bowl/
Crappy inconsistent calls from regular season to playoffs are just what we deal with in sports (and I do think that Clement catch should have been overruled). It's never an actual conspiracy against a team, it's just general incompetence in the moment (even on replay).
I agree “the evidence is everywhere.”
The evidence — all of it — just happens to include this play:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000894690/Jesse-James-go-ahead-TD-overturned-ruled-incomplete-pass
Conspiracists have no cogent explanation for the ruling.
The evidence — all of it — just happens to include this play:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000894690/Jesse-James-go-ahead-TD-overturned-ruled-incomplete-pass
Conspiracists have no cogent explanation for the ruling.
Still crying about this one? He hasn’t established himself as a runner yet therefore breaking the goal line doesn’t matter if he doesn’t maintain possession through the ground.
Thought we throughly cleared this one up in November, but here we are.
The point is that if they wanted to job the Pats, that was an obvious spot with HFA determined by that game. Among the reasons the conspiracists are off the mark.
You are the one who has brought up the conspiracy theory, not Pats fans. It isn't that hard. The call in the SB was called by a different rule than in the regular season. The Patriots didn't deserve to win that game and it isn't the sole reason they lost. I'll be able to live with that, given the 20 years of joy this team has given me.
He is not. Staz wrote, "The evidence is everywhere. The sooner we all realize the NFL is pro wrestling with better tv deals, the better off we’ll be." DCM's comments were responding to that.
Really. Look at staz’ post Satrurday. It’s on this page. The evidence for the conspiracy “is everywhere”, and included non-holding calls. We are in the realm of “pro wrestling.”
This is a slippery slope, and yeah, I am dumping a truck load of sand wherever I find it. Because it is stupid.