#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[Ralphwiggum]

 
Goodell has massive incentive to budge.  He is going to lose in federal court.
 
He is better off throwing Wells under the bus than having a federal judge shove his face into the puddle he left on the floor.  The suspension won't stand regardless why piss off the federal courts and have on record that you as commissioner violated the CBA?

 
Why would Goodell shorten or reduce the suspension to Brady in order to avoid having a federal court do the exact same thing? There has to be some extra downside to Roger to make that move, and I'm not seeing what it is.
 
In the alternative if he backs down now he's going to have a segment of people who think that Kraft brokered a deal (agree to the team suspension to get Brady off) or that he's in Kraft's back pocket, or that he's soft on Brady and the Pats. 
 
From his perspective, better to have the court overturn it.  At least that's the way I am seeing it.

 

[Dahabenzapple2]

and another thing - YES it reinforces the Super Bowl Victory as the greatest win in my lifetime despite the miracle that were the Red Sox in 2004

 

[tims4wins]

 
Why would Goodell shorten or reduce the suspension to Brady in order to avoid having a federal court do the exact same thing? There has to be some extra downside to Roger to make that move, and I'm not seeing what it is.
 
In the alternative if he backs down now he's going to have a segment of people who think that Kraft brokered a deal (agree to the team suspension to get Brady off) or that he's in Kraft's back pocket, or that he's soft on Brady and the Pats. 
 
From his perspective, better to have the court overturn it.  At least that's the way I am seeing it.

 
As T&A said a few posts back, it comes down to perception of power vs. actual power. Dropping the suspension means a loss in perception of power for Goodell, but avoiding court means he does maintain actual power. Whereas going to court and losing maintains his perception of power, but a potential loss in actual power. The question is which he views as more damaging.
 
Edit: and clearly a real loss in actual power is more damaging to the league and owners, and by extension, worse for Goodell's job security, IMO

 

[Tony C]

Exactly.* He may know he's going to lose in court, but that is "better" for him than being seen as caving.
 
*edit: referring to the RalphWiggum post, not the intervening one.
 

RG would rather go to court than appear weak. This is about power and control, as I said. Doing away with the punishment would make him look bad in the eyes of the public (it's the Pats, they're guilty), the league (owners) and players. It would undermine his authority and the process. Etc, etc. Contrast that with a court turnover which is not a conscious reversal on his part. 
 
Goodell is like Stannis in Game of Thrones. Only forward, ever forward. Any deviation means weakness and illegitimacy. So on we go.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

I don't think the frustration has as much to do with the actual act as it is about just the sheer absurdity and stupidity of it all. I'm sitting back with popcorn through this whole thing, but you gotta admit, this has been a pretty fucking absurd handful of months.

 
I'm not saying that the absurdity of the whole situation isn't frustrating.  But I reached peace with the fact that a large segment of people are always going to think the Pats cheated, so whatever.  First off, it is just football.  Second, the Pats are Super Bowl champs and most likely will be right there in January with a chance to win another.  The most important thing now is ensuring that Brady plays in all of the games if possible.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter  2m2 minutes ago
Patriots owner Robert Kraft, now out of country, wrote an affidavit to be introduced into today's appeal, supporting Tom Brady's character.
 

 

[NortheasternPJ]

If I were Goodell I'd say exactly that. We believe something occurred etc etc etc but upon further evidence it wouldn't hold up in federal court were going to fine him or whatever. We believe in the process and I'm still the Ginger Hammer going forward.

Ted get the fuck out of my office. I never want to See your face again.

 

[tims4wins]

Exactly.* He may know he's going to lose in court, but that is "better" for him than being seen as caving.
 
*edit: referring to the RalphWiggum post, not the intervening one.
 

 
It may be better for his public perception, but it is really better for his perception among the owners if he loses in court? Losing in court has real ramifications from a CBA perspective, whereas dropping the suspension and losing in the court of public opinion doesn't have similar ramifications. If it comes down to job security, I think appeasing the owners is more important than appeasing the fans.
 
That being said, it's not entirely clear what outcome the owners would prefer.

 

[ifmanis5]

I hope it's league emails.

I hope it's Kensil's cell phone. And more info on the guy who got fired for swapping illegal balls into the game.

 

[bankshot1]

I hope it's league emails.

or Goodell's, Wells' and Kensil's cell-phones

 

[Norm loves Vera]

They haven't even broken for lunch yet and there are already 2 leaks.. (TB under Oath and NFLPA request discovery documents).    Can't wait until a few of those in the basement have a few beers down the street at the Bull & Bear Bar and twitter explodes.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

 
As T&A said a few posts back, it comes down to perception of power vs. actual power. Dropping the suspension means a loss in perception of power for Goodell, but avoiding court means he does maintain actual power. Whereas going to court and losing maintains his perception of power, but a potential loss in actual power. The question is which he views as more damaging.
 
Edit: and clearly a real loss in actual power is more damaging to the league and owners, and by extension, worse for Goodell's job security, IMO

 
I don't know, it is an interesting way to frame the issue but I don't know that Roger is smart enough to think things through on that level.  By all accounts he's on flimsier ground legally with Petersen but still pushed the issue on that one, and also got his ass handed to him in the Rice thing.  If he (and the owners) were worried about that sort of thing why didn't he relent in those cases, and why would this particular case be the straw that broke Roger's back?

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

Goodell can go full power move and still avoid court. All he has to do is site new evidence he learned today (Brady's testimony, AEI explanation of science, phone/email records, etc.) and then adjust penalties without throwing Wells under the bus. He can do it under the theory that this is what he believes and independent of any report, he is clear that "x,y,z" did or didn't happen. It would be a move similar to destroying the Spygate tapes, but probably wouldn't backfire on him like that issue. Enough opinions and scientific analysis is in to where he can come up with his own conclusion if he wants and it still be consistent with trending thought on the topic. 
 
He left himself a huge out with his "new evidence" comment a month ago, so I think that is his play if things line up accordingly. Wells won't get another case from the NFL, but that isn't the commish's problem. 

 

[RG33]

to all of you - of course I now feel better. The last few days, it all really got under my skin. Of course they are pulling my chain. I was banned from sports talk in the office in OCT 2013!! I am the most outspoken person here on sports. Plus being in NJ - I am the ONLY Patriots fan in existence in my somewhat small world.
 
and again - YES I feel better!!

I am genuinely happy for you.

Although, I am desperately afraid for what must have come of Dahabenzapple1.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

 
I don't know, it is an interesting way to frame the issue but I don't know that Roger is smart enough to think things through on that level.  By all accounts he's on flimsier ground legally with Petersen but still pushed the issue on that one, and also got his ass handed to him in the Rice thing.  If he (and the owners) were worried about that sort of thing why didn't he relent in those cases, and why would this particular case be the straw that broke Roger's back?

 
Because he's done well enough in negotiations with the NFLPA and networks that he can make his next State of the NFL speech nothing more than 20 minutes of his bare ass in front of a podium farting and they'd be okay with him. Once he costs the owners money, then he goes.

 

[tims4wins]

 
I don't know, it is an interesting way to frame the issue but I don't know that Roger is smart enough to think things through on that level.  By all accounts he's on flimsier ground legally with Petersen but still pushed the issue on that one, and also got his ass handed to him in the Rice thing.  If he (and the owners) were worried about that sort of thing why didn't he relent in those cases, and why would this particular case be the straw that broke Roger's back?

 
That's why this is all so fascinating to me. How many times will the owners be ok with him losing in court?

 

[bankshot1]

I just heard that Team Brady was given 4 hours to make their case.
 
hmmm
 
the NFL took 3 months to make theirs?
 
this is going to court

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Whether Brady should accept the penalty or not depends on what the penalty is.  At one game or less, I'd hope he'd figure out a way to accept it while remaining strongly defensive of his innocence.  At three games or more, he should definitely take it to the next level.
 
To me, the tough call is at 2 games.  I kind of hope he presses his case there.

This is why I voted other

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Goodell can go full power move and still avoid court. All he has to do is site new evidence he learned today (Brady's testimony, AEI explanation of science, phone/email records, etc.) and then adjust penalties without throwing Wells under the bus. He can do it under the theory that this is what he believes and independent of any report, he is clear that "x,y,z" did or didn't happen. It would be a move similar to destroying the Spygate tapes, but probably wouldn't backfire on him like that issue. Enough opinions and scientific analysis is in to where he can come up with his own conclusion if he wants and it still be consistent with trending thought on the topic. 
 
He left himself a huge out with his "new evidence" comment a month ago, so I think that is his play if things line up accordingly. Wells won't get another case from the NFL, but that isn't the commish's problem. 

I think this is right. I have no idea what he's going to do (if I had to guess I'd say he upholds the penalty), and nothing would surprise me. Roger will do what he thinks is good for Roger. If he's mostly concerned with maintaining his unfettered power over discipline, he may eliminate the suspension in order to avoid a petition to vacate. If he's more concerned about being perceived as not tough enough on the Pats, he uphold the suspension or reduce it by a game. As you point out, he's given himself an out. He won't be afraid to throw Wells or anyone else under the bus if he feels it's necessary. Loyalty obviously means nothing to him.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

I just heard that Team Brady was given 4 hours to make their case.
 
hmmm
 
the NFL took 3 months to make theirs?
 
this is going to court

This is fucking moronic.

 

[Section30]

How much exposure does Goddell/NFL have in the area of losing two (3) court judgements?
 
Can the NFLPA cite the actions of the commissioner in the Peterson, Rice and Brady cases as acting outside the boundaries of the CBA and ask to have the current CBA vacated? Would the NFLPA want to do this or try to force some other changes/concessions?

 

[OnWisc]

I just heard that Team Brady was given 4 hours to make their case.

What are they going to do with the other three and a half?

 

[bankshot1]

This is fucking moronic.

You want to clarify that?

 

[Ed Hillel]

NFLN is finally off the appeal thing.
 
Now they have on the 4th and 2 game!

 

[bankshot1]

What are they going to do with the other three and a half?

Long lunch

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

I just heard that Team Brady was given 4 hours to make their case.
 
hmmm
 
the NFL took 3 months to make theirs?
 
this is going to court

That's ridiculous if true. There are a lot of complex facts here. Why would they reserve a second day if the Union only had four hours. Not sure I'm buying that.

 

[RedOctober3829]

This is bullshit.  4 hours to present their case????  They are putting a time limit on it.  This isn't a neutral arbitration.  This is placating the NFLPA and Brady.

 

[PseuFighter]

legal friends, how can brady be placed under oath? this isn't court...

 

[bankshot1]

I would think an impartial arbiter would kill the NFL mandating a 4-hour limit TB to present his case against.

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

or Goodell's, Wells' and Kensil's cell-phones

That would be rich:  they turn over their cell phone when Brady wouldnt.

 

[Ed Hillel]

This is bullshit.  4 hours to present their case????  They are putting a time limit on it.  This isn't a neutral arbitration.  This is placating the NFLPA and Brady.

 
Do we have any sort of link for this?

 

[simplyeric]

I still think he drops it to one game, based soley on the issues that the 4 game suspension represents such a huge dollar amount in salary. While 1 game is still a lot more than the Favre fine, it's sortof a minimum (I mean, he's not going to suspend TB for a half or something).
So he just says 'no new evidence, the Wells report still stands, but I've reconsidered the scale of the penalty and have set it at one game, to serve as a precedent for future incidents of this type' (either ball tampering or not turning over his phone).
This makes Brady's case trickier. He could have the whole thing vacated in court because the 4 games is SO unprecedented. But 1 game, while unprecedented, isn't totally crazy because for lesser player the 1 game is worth much closer to the $25k minimum.
It makes Goodell's procedural stance a little stronger, and makes the rest of it about 'the truth' which doesn't really matter to Goodell (meaning, it's not a big deal for Roger if a judge comes to a different conclusion about the 'facts'. It's a bigger deal if the judge finds that Roger violated the CBA).

 

[soxhop411]

“@AdamSchefter: Defense team of Tom Brady was given 4 hours today to present its entire case. Proceedings expected to wrap today, not continue Thursday.”

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

Yup, if I'm Kessler, I'd just say, "Don't worry about four hours, we'll just see you in court for the injunction next month, Rog."

 

[bankshot1]

 
Do we have any sort of link for this?

 
Adam schefter tweet
https://twitter.com/adamschefter

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Yup, if I'm Kessler, I'd just say, "Don't worry about four hours, we'll just see you in court for the injunction next month, Rog."

Any more fan fiction you'd like to add?

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

 
adam scechter tweet
https://twitter.com/adamschefter

He and Sal were running with it at the top of the hour.  Rest of their live report was a re-hashing of the last report I saw, except this time Adam didnt go blank and actually remembered the Three Ps he was trying to stress.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet  20s20 seconds ago
Alongside Roger Goodell, outside counsel Gregg Levy, a CBA expert, is heavily involved in helping put on the Brady Appeal
 

 

[Omar's Wacky Neighbor]

 to all of you - of course I now feel better. The last few days, it all really got under my skin. Of course they are pulling my chain. I was banned from sports talk in the office in OCT 2013!! I am the most outspoken person here on sports. Plus being in NJ - I am the ONLY Patriots fan in existence in my somewhat small world.
 
and again - YES I feel better!!

Luckily for my sanity, my sons' middle school (NE corner of Bergen county) has a number of Pats fans:  teachers, parents, the principal. 

 

[bankshot1]

so was today's appeal just a smoke screen for the NFL to assess the tack Team Brady may take in court?

 

[ifmanis5]

so was today's appeal just a smoke screen for the NFL to assess the tack Team Brady may take in court?

Quite possibly but unless they can change the physics of the ideal gas law, what case do they have?

 

[MarcSullivaFan]

Yup, if I'm Kessler, I'd just say, "Don't worry about four hours, we'll just see you in court for the injunction next month, Rog."

Nah, that's silly. You object on the record and then build as much of a record as you can. Part of the reason you're going on the record is so you have a certified transcript to use for your petition to vacate.

FYI, that's also the reason Brady's under oath. I assume the other witnesses will be as well. Arbitrators and court reporters (the transcriptionist) both can and do swear witnesses.

 

[bsj]

Nah, that's silly. You object on the record and then build as much of a record as you can. Part of the reason you're going on the record is so you have a certified transcript to use for your petition to vacate.

FYI, that's also the reason Brady's under oath. I assume the other witnesses will be as well. Arbitrators and court reporters (the transcriptionist) both can and do swear witnesses.

 
 
Doesn't the fact that the Brady team was only given 4 hours to present its entire case work against the NFL should it go to court? Courts dont want to involve themselves in labor disputes unless there is a clear violation of process. Wouldn't this be one?

 

[soxhop411]

“@gregaiello: @ProFootballTalk There is no strict 4-hour time limit on the TB team’s presentation and it is expected to go beyond that.”

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Nah, that's silly. You object on the record and then build as much of a record as you can. Part of the reason you're going on the record is so you have a certified transcript to use for your petition to vacate.

FYI, that's also the reason Brady's under oath. I assume the other witnesses will be as well. Arbitrators and court reporters (the transcriptionist) both can and do swear witnesses.

To make a post other than snark.
 
Brady being under oath also provides Goodell cover should he decide to reduce or eliminate the penalty all together (this could be fan fic as well).  Just coming in and saying "I didn't do it" wouldn't help Goodell with the other owners, however, saying it under oath Goodell can spin that as saying he doesn't think Brady would perjure himself and face jail time to avoid a game or 2 suspension.

 

[Buster Olney the Lonely]

“@gregaiello: @ProFootballTalk There is no strict 4-hour time limit on the TB team’s presentation and it is expected to go beyond that.”

 
geez. Why should we expect ESPN to get facts correct? 

 

[txexile]

“@gregaiello: @ProFootballTalk There is no strict 4-hour time limit on the TB team’s presentation and it is expected to go beyond that.”

 
Izzat so? Then someone linked false information to Schefter at ESPN? What are the chances of THAT happening?

 

[Ed Hillel]

Oh God, even Schefter's been infected.

 

[LuckyBen]

 
Izzat so? Then someone linked false information to Schefter at ESPN? What are the chances of THAT happening?

He obviously got a tip from Mort.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Now Rapoport saying they were given a "rough 4-hour outline." Also saying Brady is being forthcoming.