Defending The Ground Game: Failure To Fit (Part 2 of 4)

[nazz45]

 
In Part 1, we looked at the various roles and responsibilities of defenders in stopping the run, including a Week 7 play where New England executed flawlessly against the Jets early in the game. Alas, that was one of the Patriots’ few bright spots in that area on Thursday night.
 
Even before losing linebacker Jerod Mayo to a season-ending injury one weekend prior, the New England run defense could, at best, be described as Jekyll-and-Hyde in nature. Having already allowed 191 rushing yards to the Dolphins in Week 1 and 207 rushing yards to the Chiefs in Week 4, the Patriots run defense transformed into Mr. Hyde once again on Thursday night as the Jets piled up 218 yards on the ground. Undisciplined and, at times, overpowered, the Patriots put on a clinic of how not to defend the run. And it was a full team effort that nearly cost them the game.
 
In Part 2, we’ll examine how failure to properly fill the gaps between linemen can leave a defense flat-footed.

It takes a team effort to fail this much. Read here.

 

[soxfan121]

Brian, in your opinion, how much of this is talent and how much is scheme/technique/coaching?

 

[tims4wins]

Spinoff question, the Pats have basically completely shut down the run in four games - Minnesota, Oakland, Cincy, and Buffalo. If they are that bad vs. the run wouldn't those teams have gashed them as well? IIRC none of those teams got more than 70 yards or over 4.0 YPC from their backs.

 

[TheMoralBully]

Bernard posted good numbers in the Cincy game, they just blew them out. Minny was running with Asiata who has since lost the job and Oakland and Buffalo have had pretty awful rushing offenses.

 

[tims4wins]

Bernad had 13 for 62 (4.8), their other backs had 3 carries for 1 yard, so total was 16 for 63 (3.9).
 
And usually in blowouts you give up more YPC since you only care about stopping the pass. I will check the game log though.
 
Bernard's runs:
Q1
1 yard (7-0 Pats)
13 yards (7-0)
7 yards (14-0)
1 yard
10 yards
3 yards
5 yards
2 yards
1 yard
10 yards (20-3; this ended the half)
5 yards
0 yards
4 yards
 
So taking out the meaningless 10 yard run before the half, he had 12 carries for 52, 4.33 per carry. That's pretty good but not gashing them. Of those 12 runs, only 3 went for more than 5 yards. That is far different than what happened against KC, Miami, or the Jets.

 

[nazz45]

Brian, in your opinion, how much of this is talent and how much is scheme/technique/coaching?

It's a combination. That's a cliche answer but it's true.

I do think that since the run defense will, by default, always have a numbers advantage, proper technique and reacting to the right keys will usually best talent and scheme. But as we will see in a breakdown to come, sometimes scheme and talent (like Mangold treating Casey Walker like a JV football player on a single block) can win out.

The linebackers have the toughest job. Obviously physical attributes like speed and strength are great. But if all you do is crash straight forward into a pile without understanding what you are seeing, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[soxfan121]

The linebackers have the toughest job. Obviously physical attributes like speed and strength are great. But if all you do is crash straight forward into a pile without understanding what you are seeing, it doesn't mean anything.

 
Does this inform BB's drafting/signing of LBs over the years? Spikes seems like a "crash" player but few others have had that mentality - more associated with the cerebral aspects. 

 

[nazz45]

Spinoff question, the Pats have basically completely shut down the run in four games - Minnesota, Oakland, Cincy, and Buffalo. If they are that bad vs. the run wouldn't those teams have gashed them as well? IIRC none of those teams got more than 70 yards or over 4.0 YPC from their backs.

The Cincy and Vikings games are a little different than the others due to the score so the commitment to the run was impacted. But I certainly understand the point.

If it were a strict talent issue, the Patriots would be getting gashed every week. I don't think stopping the run is a pure talent issue. It's about each defender being in the right spot (filling the correct running lanes/gaps, keeping contain, etc.).

Specifically to the Jets game, the linebackers (Hightower and Collins) did not play well, for different reasons. I found Hightower to be too aggressive, just reacting to initial play side action and hitting running lanes and blockers with no regard to what was going on around him. I found Collins far too tentative, slow to close gaps and allowing blockers to engage him which makes it near impossible to get off and make a tackle.

Ninkovich had a really rough series in which Belichick pulled him aside on the sideline after the Jets scored. He was blowing his contain and Ivory ripped off two 10+ yard runs to his side.

You can go 3-4 or 4-3 or bring a safety into the box. You can one gap or two gap it. You can bring run blitzes. But if you keep over pursuing and fail on simple things like run force (setting an edge), you will never be a consistent run defense.

 

[TheMoralBully]

With everything the Patriots do wrong in the article, it still takes good patience and the juke from Ivory to take advantage. Moreno has a reputation as a runner who works well out of the gun because of his patience and the Chiefs rbs seemed to abuse them on cutbacks. With Hightower crashing rather than making the smart play and Collins timid and not doing much of anything, I guess my point was the backs who gashed them would seem to be the types to really take advantage of the breakdowns pointed out in the article. And it starts with KC, Miami and NY winning the battle on the line to put the spot light on the lbs.

 

[tims4wins]

Thanks Nazz.
 
I remember one year they couldn't stop the run at all - 2002. I just went through boxscores and starting with the 3rd game of the year (KC, the OT shootout win), they basically didn't stop the run in a single game. It was a lot different than this year where they have had sporadic success.
 
So I am thinking they will shut down the run for another couple games in a row, then get gashed, lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[soxfan121]

TYMS4wins - gird your loins for Denver2: Electric Boogaloo, where the Broncos set a new rushing record and the Pats go all out to blanket the Bronco WRs.

 

[( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)]

It's a combination. That's a cliche answer but it's true.

I do think that since the run defense will, by default, always have a numbers advantage, proper technique and reacting to the right keys will usually best talent and scheme. But as we will see in a breakdown to come, sometimes scheme and talent (like Mangold treating Casey Walker like a JV football player on a single block) can win out.

The linebackers have the toughest job. Obviously physical attributes like speed and strength are great. But if all you do is crash straight forward into a pile without understanding what you are seeing, it doesn't mean anything.

 
Spin off question with how this relates to Collins.  In your opinion what is the easier skill set for LBers to develop over time with experience. Coverage or playing the run?
 
It's interesting with Collins because he has not played LBer for all that long, but has shown the ability to coverage while not being a strong player against the run.  I am sure there are certain guys that will just never "get" or develop both skill sets.  But I am curious if it's generally believed to be easier to learn to be a good LBer against the run vs. learning to be a good LBer against the pass.

 

[tims4wins]

TYMS4wins - gird your loins for Denver2: Electric Boogaloo, where the Broncos set a new rushing record and the Pats go all out to blanket the Bronco WRs.

 
Hey it worked in 2012 right?

 

[dcmissle]

 
Hey it worked in 2012 right?

Denver's defense is significantly better than in 2012. They have guys who can get to the passer, and they wil be teeing off on a work-in-progress o line.

 

[nazz45]

 
Spin off question with how this relates to Collins.  In your opinion what is the easier skill set for LBers to develop over time with experience. Coverage or playing the run?
 
It's interesting with Collins because he has not played LBer for all that long, but has shown the ability to coverage while not being a strong player against the run.  I am sure there are certain guys that will just never "get" or develop both skill sets.  But I am curious if it's generally believed to be easier to learn to be a good LBer against the run vs. learning to be a good LBer against the pass.

Collins is an interesting case because, as you pointed out, he has more experience on the perimeter as a DE and even away from the line of scrimmage as a safety early on his college career. His experience in the middle is really limited to only a handful of NFL games. So you are talking about three very different perspectives in which you have different keys to read and react to, not mention the different use of physical skills associated with each position.
 
I would say that there are less teachable skills while in man coverage. Keep proper leverage and run with the receiver. You can't teach speed and size so that's important if you have to run with a back or tight end. Zone coverage is a little different as it's more about proper technique as well as discipline and quick reactions within the zone scheme.
 
As a middle linebacker against the run, you physically need to be able to hit and shed, pursue and hit/tackle again and then repeat that about 25-35 more times in a game. You are dealing with a lot more head-on blocks from guards and centers and bad angle blocks from fullbacks. While you generally don't get faster, you can get stronger. So from a physical attribute standpoint, perhaps the progress from below-average to average+ run defender is easier to attain than below-average to average+ pass defender.
 
But from the cerebral aspect, there's the ability to read and (correctly) react to what you are seeing. Here's a great article on linebacker keys - it'd be interesting to know how the Patriots coach their linebackers (do they tell their linebackers to rely on RB or OL keys or both).
 

 
Does this inform BB's drafting/signing of LBs over the years? Spikes seems like a "crash" player but few others have had that mentality - more associated with the cerebral aspects. 

You know, while I would never refer to Spikes as cerebral, I thought he was a pretty instinctive player - maybe he just had a knack for guessing right and paid no regard to keys - but I think his issue will always be limited athletic ability. He was a crasher but seemed to know which lanes to crash.
 
I'm not sure you can get away with a non-cerebral-ish middle linebacker. Just stick the dumb, super-athletic guys on the outside.