Just got an alert through the IFTTT service (basically this alert scrapes espn.com for Sox related news and texts it to me) that said Ortiz was involved in an 'altercation' with CHB, but it's not on espn.com. Anyone have a line on this story?
After Ortiz's news conference, there was a verbal confrontation in the Red Sox clubhouse between Ortiz and Boston Globe columnist Dan Shaughnessy, who called the designated hitter "selfish" for talking about his contract a year before it expired in a story that ran in late January.uncannymanny said:Just got an alert through the IFTTT service (basically this alert scrapes espn.com for Sox related news and texts it to me) that said Ortiz was involved in an 'altercation' with CHB, but it's not on espn.com. Anyone have a line on this story?
Hank Scorpio said:It kind of shocks me that CHB hasn't been banned from the Red Sox clubhouse. Should have happened over a decade ago.
Sampo Gida said:
CHB now works for JWH. Why would JWH ban a guy he is paying to cover the Red Sox?. Just has to fire him.
JakeRae said:The Ortiz comments aren't really accurate. First, no hitter is making $30 million a year and almost no one is making $25. The best position players are making $20-$25, not $25-$30. Second, and more important, Ortiz is not as good as the guys making that type of money. Or, at the very least, he is not as good as the teams expected those players to be when they signed them to those contracts.
On a rate stat level, Ortiz' performance last year was most comparable to that of Choo. (They have a wRC+ one point apart and wOBA's with .010 although Choo gets there with less power and more OBP.) Choo signed for $18.6 million this offseason. And, while his terrible defense makes him basically the equivalent of a DH, he played in 17 more games and accumulate 112 more PA, making his fWAR 1.4 higher than that of Ortiz.
If we are looking for a value comp, we need look no further than the Red Sox 1B. Napoli's overall value last season was virtually identical to that of Ortiz at 3.9 fWAR to Ortiz' 3.8. His health concerns probably mitigate substantially against the age difference. He signed a contract that was pretty much the same as the one Ortiz got a year ago.
Basically, the contract Ortiz is on, which he signed as a FA, is equivalent to his fair market value, more or less. Part of signing a contract is giving up the right to renegotiate terms every year. If Ortiz wants to sign an extension which builds in a discount for the Red Sox to guarantee him money in 2015 a year before they need to, I would be fine with that. I would not offer him a FA-rate extension a year in advance though. It sets a terrible precedent for future dealings with players to do so.
If Ortiz has another great year, a 2-year, $30-34 million dollar deal is probably waiting for him after next year. If he struggles or gets hurt, he might be looking at a 1 year, $5 million dollar deal with incentives or even just be out of baseball entirely. If he wants to sign an extension for around $10-$12 million right now, I'd do it. I'd also consider a $15-$16 million dollar extension with a team option at the same rate added on for the third year and no, or minimal, buyout. If he is looking for $15+ million without the team really getting anything, I try to politely explain to him that I'm not saying no because I don't think he's worth it but because the team has to hold the line on not being willing to extend players who are currently under contract unless they are willing to take a discount. $15 million for Ortiz, as evidenced by his last contract and the contract Napoli just signed, is not a discount, or if it is, it is a very slight one.
The short version of all of this is that it is bad for business to extend players unless you get a discount. Extending Ortiz should only happen if he is willing to take a discount, either in dollar terms or by giving the team options at the end. And, in either case, he really should keep his contract complaints between himself, his agent, and the front office rather than discussing it in the press.
Andrew said:Is there any other type of 'news' where the reporters are so consistently making themselves part of the story? The story here isn't Ortiz vs the Sox (as both sides have said things are fine and will sort themselves out), it's once again an athlete vs the media. Sports reporters really are the worst.
JakeRae said:The Ortiz comments aren't really accurate. First, no hitter is making $30 million a year and almost no one is making $25. The best position players are making $20-$25, not $25-$30. Second, and more important, Ortiz is not as good as the guys making that type of money. Or, at the very least, he is not as good as the teams expected those players to be when they signed them to those contracts.
Sampo Gida said:
If you are going to whine in public about your contract when you make 15 million a year when folks are struggling to make it on 100K or less, you are pretty much fair game. Papi made himself the story. Writers need folks to read their stuff and in an offseason where Drew has been the major story for the Red Sox (at least it seems like its always the top thread) you can't blame them for running with it.
You probably don't realize this, but using that picture destroyed any point you were attempting to make.Hoplite said:
Exactly, what team would give up a draft pick to sign an aging DH type to a short-term deal?
crazybird1 said:Um no. If he has a subpar year but his option triggers, then you go into next season and act accordingly. If he rebounds great give him 500 at bats if he doesn't bench him and don't let him get 500 at bats. Worst case scenario the Sox are out 32 million over two years. There's a risk for sure but it's not one that would cripple the team money wise.
Plympton91 said:If that stat you showed really says that Ortiz is worth the same as Napoli then it says a lot about how flawed the stat is, and nothing more.
He clarified that he's asking for one year, 2015.yecul said:The question will be years. I think you sign him any number around 15m if it's just one year. If it's multiple years or there are vesting options then I can see waiting a bit. At this point it's hard to see them parting ways, so the timing of an extension doesn't concern me.
If he wants 1/15 then you give it to him now. One year will not hamper anything even if he becomes a pumpkin and rides the pine as the elder statesman.
I disagree.mabrowndog said:It would be great if the CBA allowed contractual clauses imposing gag orders on players prohibiting them from any discussion of current or future contracts until the expiration of said current contract, and it would be even greater if Ortiz's new deal contained such a clause.
Because while I'm fully behind Ortiz getting another well-deserved year, if he's really serious about wanting that and nothing more then he should be firmly held to shutting the fuck up about it henceforth until the 2015 season ends.
Much like Teddy Ballgame did, really.mabrowndog said:My ulterior point was that I'd prefer not to have it once again become headline creation fodder for the multiple talentless hacks incapable of generating any other Red Sox insights. Papi hates these guys, yet can't resist feeding them the very thing that continues to sustain them.
mabrowndog said:It would be great if the CBA allowed contractual clauses imposing gag orders on players prohibiting them from any discussion of current or future contracts until the expiration of said current contract, and it would be even greater if Ortiz's new deal contained such a clause.
Because while I'm fully behind Ortiz getting another well-deserved year, if he's really serious about wanting that and nothing more then he should be firmly held to shutting the fuck up about it henceforth until the 2015 season ends.
teddywingman said:I don't understand the mind of David Ortiz.
"I'm going to have even more than what I normally have, which is not fair because I'm not getting any younger," he said. "I'm always going to need help. I'm 38 years old and I'm still the center of attention in the lineup. It shouldn't be like that. It shouldn't be like that. We should have a couple of studs in their 20s doing more than what I do.
"I hope this team gets to the point where they sign a couple of studs, middle-of-the-order guys at some point where things change," he said. "You never know, we'll probably have Will coming into being a stud. Thank God we have Nap. I don't count Pedey [Dustin Pedroia] as a middle-of-the-order guy. Middle-of-the-order guy is where the power part of the lineup is based on. I'm 38 years old and they're acting like they don't want to pitch to me at this age, that's something we need to fix.
"Last year with the lineup that we had, we won the World Series. I think we're going to be fine. Every year is a learning process for everyone. I watch spring training and I watch the way pitchers approach me and I laugh because they're basically showing you what they're going to do during the season."
I'm 38 years old and they're acting like they don't want to pitch to me at this age, that's something we need to fix.
Man, there was almost nothing as fun as the Papi-Manny duo. I'd be reminiscing about that if I were him, too.C4CRVT said:He longs for the days of having 2003 Manny batting cleanup. Sorry dude, we all do.
rembrat said:
Father time usually takes care of that.
One could also infer that he's saying: "And pay somebody else, too. Cause the team around me isn't good enough."smastroyin said:
For three, "I'm the man, pay me."
Red(s)HawksFan said:I think he's looking at last year's lineup that, while winning the Series, was often fairly impotent aside from him in the postseason. (really, how the heck did they manage to score any runs that weren't driven in by Ortiz?)
Andrew said:
They scored 853 runs last year, first in the majors and 57 more than the second place team. They also managed to, you know, score more runs than their opponents in the play-offs too. If you look at the Sox last year and think "boy that offense is impotent" you're simply not being rational.
He had one beyond otherworldly moment in the ALCS, and otherwise was 1 for 21. If other guys hadn't stepped up, the Sox wouldn't have made it to the WS, and Ortiz wouldn't have had a chance to be truly otherworldlyRed(s)HawksFan said:Post-season. I specifically referred to the post season where Ortiz was otherworldly and the rest of the team, save for a couple key moments, barely hit at all (.168/.225/.252 in the WS outside Ortiz).
Of course they had a potent offense last year, and should have something similar this year. But Ortiz isn't thinking about total runs and OBP, he's looking for gaudy HR totals.
Red(s)HawksFan said:
But Ortiz isn't thinking about total runs and OBP, he's looking for gaudy HR totals.
Andrew said:
That's just not the game of baseball anymore, though. I guess that's why Ortiz makes his money in the batter's box and not in the front office.
Well yeah, the man is a God.Reverend said:
Ortiz being Ortiz. Deal with it.
teddywingman said:One could also infer that he's saying: "And pay somebody else, too. Cause the team around me isn't good enough."