http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/9730211/cuba-says-athletes-now-sign-foreign-leagues
That sounds like some pretty big news...
That sounds like some pretty big news...
Cuba to allow players to sign internationally
- Thread starter terrisus
- Start date
I'd suggest that the change in how athletes can leave Cuba to play professional sports qualifies as 'very much', in their eyes.
What are you talking about? Athletes had to flee the country, and establish residency in a new country before they could start the process of getting permission to play baseball in the US. Now, they can do this right from Cuba. They don't have to leave their families behind to never see some of them again. This is huge for Cuban players.soxhop411 said:
Is the US Govt going to allow them to be signed without establishing residency in some 'friendlier' country?
Isn't that the important factor in all this?
Isn't that the important factor in all this?
What are you talking about? Athletes had to flee the country, and establish residency in a new country before they could start the process of getting permission to play baseball in the US. Now, they can do this right from Cuba. They don't have to leave their families behind to never see some of them again. This is huge for Cuban players.
The issue is Cuba.
The issue is Cuba.
Yeah, I am not sure the United States will start handing out work Visas to people who are residents of country with whom we do not have diplomatic relations with. However, this is great news for Cuban ballplayers regardless as they now presumably get the chance to play in professional leagues like those in Japan.
The article does also say:
So it's not like we're all of a suddenly going to have a huge influx right away or anything, but still, a pretty big change from Cuba's side.
So it's not like we're all of a suddenly going to have a huge influx right away or anything, but still, a pretty big change from Cuba's side.
"Establishing residency" and "fleeing in the dark of night and never seeing your family/friends or homeland again" are different things.
soxhop411 said:
Cuba is doing the common sense thing to do. The US should do the common sense thing and treat Cuban players like players from any other country. Is there any good reason why players from Cuba and Venezuela are treated differently?
There are restrictions in place where making payments to Cuba, which include the taxes the Cuban Government may collect from the players' salaries as paid by MLB Organizations. These differs much from salaries paid to Venezuelan players or players from any other country. Some arrangement has to be reached, either on a case by case basis or with MLB in general before a Cuban player can actually play (while still being Cuban and not having defected).SaveBooFerriss said:
The whole Cuba embargo is stupid and counterproductive to the goal of a more democratic Cuba. Requiring Cuba players to establish residency is another country when Cuba is freely letting them go to the US is silly.
Cuban citizens in general can now emigrate .. Not just ball players .. They still have to go through a fair bit of paperwork to get exit visas IIRC.. And I don't think it's completely automatic.
soxhop411 said:
Look, I know it's the internet and people tend to stick to their guns, but you have to see the difference between some risky trip on a raft or sneaking out of a hotel in a foreign country and being allowed to start the process right from Cuba. That does not mean there's not other hurdles, but it's a huge step.
DrewDawg wrote:
I know that. That's what I was trying to say. they still have to go through more hurdles to get to the US then someone from say Mexico given the Cuba/US relations
Everyone understands that. The problem is that "really doesn't change much" is only applicable from the US side. This is an enormous change for all the people on the Cuban side and that is a very big deal. We can consider this from a perspective other than "How can this help my team?"
I'm curious about how Cuba will handle the players who fled. Will they welcome them home if they want to return for a visit or after retiring? Will they charge back taxes equivalent to what players are charged going forward?
I know that. That's what I was trying to say. they still have to go through more hurdles to get to the US then someone from say Mexico given the Cuba/US relations
Everyone understands that. The problem is that "really doesn't change much" is only applicable from the US side. This is an enormous change for all the people on the Cuban side and that is a very big deal. We can consider this from a perspective other than "How can this help my team?"
I'm curious about how Cuba will handle the players who fled. Will they welcome them home if they want to return for a visit or after retiring? Will they charge back taxes equivalent to what players are charged going forward?
sdiaz1 said:
sdiaz1 said:
Uhhh... You know that any and all Cubans can get what amounts to blanket political asylum in the US, right? That they have a totally different immigration status in American law from all other people in the world?
They won't have much trouble at all getting visas.
nvalvo said:
Asylum is irrelevant completely irrelevant to this policy. This policy applies to athletes to leave the country only so long as they remain Cuban citizens, pay taxes to the Cuban government, and play on the Cuban national team. Since US law doesn't allow any American business entity to transfer money to any Cuban entity, the effect of this policy essentially only Cuban ballplayers to play in professional leagues in the Caribbean and Asia. So in short, no, the players who take advantage of this policy will not be able to get work visas in the US. If a Cuban wanted to play in the Major Leagues, he would still have to defect.
Furthermore, no Cuban ballplayer would ever apply for asylum in the US, because that would subject them to the draft instead of free agency, which is why the defector ballplayers all establish residency elsewhere.
nvalvo said:
Uhhhh... You know what Political Asylum means, right? You can't really seek asylum while continuing to reside in the country of your citizenship. The new Cuban policy impacts only Cuban's who want to continue living in the island while working abroad. While the CAA only impacts Cuban's who have left the country and who want to establish permanent residency in the US. -You know, like political refugees.
Orel Miraculous said:
This is a little tricky. No US team would really pay any money to the Cuban Government (unless the Cuban Government would like to start a posting system similar to the Japanese). The Cuban players would earn a salary and they would be responsible to pay taxes to the Cuban Government. This is the same policy the US has, any US Citizen who earns income abroad has to pay taxes in the US, this does not apply in all countries, in many countries income earned abroad is not subject to income tax. Does the US Treasury still see this as a US entity transferring money to the Cuban Government in violation of the law?
trekfan55 said:
The embargo does not merely prohibit an American from paying money to the Cuban government. It prohibits any American from contracting with any Cuban national. So without the embargo being loosened, this policy does nothing to change the relationship between Cuban ballplayers and MLB.
And yet there have been many Cuban nationals who have defected over the last 10+ years and signed with MLB teams. How did they get around the embargo?
If they defect, they're no longer "Cuban nationals" as, in the eyes of the US government, they've given up their Cuban citizenship in the process.HriniakPosterChild said:
The policy is officially up and running: Cuban legend Frederich Cepeda just signed with the Yomiuri Giants for $1.5 million without defecting. Ironically enough, one of his new teammates will be Leslie Anderson, a Cuban who did defect a few years ago. Cepeda's 34 now but was he once considered the best player on the island (in the 2006 WBC, where he faced the DR, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, and Japan, he hit .385/.500/.731 with 2 homeruns and 3 doubles in 8 games). It'll be real interesting to see not just how he performs on the field but how he adjusts to the big time pro experience while still keeping one foot in Cuba.
It'll also be interesting to see if this policy does anything to slow the flood of defectors to MLB that we've seen in recent years. On one hand, the temptation to defect to MLB will still be there, as they can make a lot more money here than in Japan or Korea, and both NPB and the Korean league have restrictions on the number of foreign players each team can sign. On the other hand, a contract for just $100,000 would still be more money then they've ever made in their lives (Cepeda made $1000 a year), and it would probably be great to make that money without having to abandon your family. If I'm the GM of an NPB team, I'm sending a whole team of scouts to Cuba ASAP.
It'll also be interesting to see if this policy does anything to slow the flood of defectors to MLB that we've seen in recent years. On one hand, the temptation to defect to MLB will still be there, as they can make a lot more money here than in Japan or Korea, and both NPB and the Korean league have restrictions on the number of foreign players each team can sign. On the other hand, a contract for just $100,000 would still be more money then they've ever made in their lives (Cepeda made $1000 a year), and it would probably be great to make that money without having to abandon your family. If I'm the GM of an NPB team, I'm sending a whole team of scouts to Cuba ASAP.
Yulieski Gourriel is now a member of the Yokohama Bay Stars. Unlike Cepeda, he's still smack in the prime of his career at just 30 years old. When he was the 21 year old starting second baseman on Cuba's '06 WBC team, many thought he was already the best player on the team (and that was a team that had Cepeda, Jose Abreu, and lost in the finals to Japan). At the time, there were all sorts of rumors that MLB players were approaching him with off-the-record contract offers from their teams if he defected.
In three games he's already 5-12 with a double and a homer, and he's got one of the sweetest right-handed swings you'll ever see in your life (reminiscent of Edgar Martinez):
In three games he's already 5-12 with a double and a homer, and he's got one of the sweetest right-handed swings you'll ever see in your life (reminiscent of Edgar Martinez):
First, I view the embargo as an outdated political football that has very little grounding in the 2014 world. It's been a 51-year failed test in the diplomatic benefits of disengagement that is now reduced to a quadrennial pandering to the Cuban voters of Florida and gaining electoral votes.
Now to the more important issues of baseball, does this give the Blue Jays any advantage? Regardless of border issues for road games, I'd take 81-home games for a Puig type.
Now to the more important issues of baseball, does this give the Blue Jays any advantage? Regardless of border issues for road games, I'd take 81-home games for a Puig type.
MuzzyField said:
No. MLB has its own league-wide policy mandating compliance with the embargo. I suppose the Jays could try to challenge the legitimacy of the policy in Canadian court if they wanted to, but it wouldn't be worth the trouble.
OM, thanks for the reply. I soon realized that I was jumping into an older thread.Orel Miraculous said: