Cricket - World Twenty20

Starting a new thread just in case anyone wants to talk about the World T20 tournament in India...or T20 cricket in general. I'm still a Test man myself, but T20 has clearly surpassed 50-over cricket as my preferred short form of the game. Frankly, I'd enjoy seeing full-length ODI cricket become mini-Test matches in which each side gets two innings of 20 or 25 overs apiece in a single day. (Not that I can imagine that would ever happen, but I'd love to see some non-crooked Stanford-type businessman front up some cash for an exhibition series in this format to see how it might play.)

Anyway, the minnows have begun today, with Zimbabwe defeating Hong Kong and Scotland now bowling at Afghanistan, but this should be great fun once the big guns enter the fray next week, starting with India vs. New Zealand on the 15th.
 

thehitcat

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Ireland doing the business against Oman this morning. Would love to see the Irish have another chance or two against one of the Test sides.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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Good job, ya jinx.

Today's loss aside, Ireland's been a breath of fresh air in one-day tournaments the last 5 years. I know they still have a long way to go before gaining Test status, but if they can do that, everyone's on board for the great story it'd be. That, and it's not like Zimbabwe's working hard to maintain its place at the adult table.
 

thehitcat

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Was just coming back to post. Totally jaked it. Can't believe it. That said it would be great to have big matches between England and Ireland.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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I think the only thing I'm worried about is the fact that Ireland could be a cricket version of a AAAA team, good enough to shock a good team from time to time in limited overs, but not good enough to hang with the big boys like England, South Africa, and Australia for 5 days. They're dominating their first step toward gaining Test status, the Intercontinental Cup (3 4-day Tests, 3 wins, leading after the 1st innings in all three matches), and might be able to do in a side like Zimbabwe in the Test Challenge, but I can also see them struggling with the longer form of the game against sides that will figure out how to bowl to them.
 
There was this story a few weeks ago about the ICC possibly considering a two-tiered Test system, which would allow Ireland to find their feet in Test cricket by not being forced to ever play the likes of England, South Africa and Australia:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/feb/25/icc-test-cricket-two-divisions-shake-up

I'd love for this to happen, but the ICC is much better at suggesting solutions to Test cricket than implementing them, so we'll see.

As for Ireland vs. Oman, what a gag job that was by several of the Irish bowlers - particularly Murtagh in the 17th over, and Sorensen in the 20th - to blow the dominating position they'd gotten themselves into. But this catch by Oman's Zeeshan Maqsood won't be bettered in the entire tournament:

 

thehitcat

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I don't disagree. That said you can't build a program and keep your best players if you don't have Test Cricket. There's also a current proposal I read about recently that basically splits Test nations into two tiers with 2 associate nations in the 2nd tier for Tests (yup that's the one thanks!). Might be a way to get Ireland into the game if they can't get over the hump in 2018 (which is currently the next window.) Also Ireland has effectively the same number of people living in the Republic as New Zealand. No reason they can't get to that level.
 

thehitcat

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The rain has let up enough for Ireland Bangladesh to play a 12 over a side match. Ireland has won the toss and take the ball. 12 overs for your tournament life. No pressure guys, glad we bowl first trying to bowl out Oman was a horror show in the last over. COME ON YOU LEPRECHAUNS! (sigh that's the nickname...)

Edit: I'm not having it. COME ON YOU BEAUTIFUL IRISH BASTARDS!! (there better)
 

thehitcat

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So um turns out that Ireland can't bowl...even a little. 4 overs in 52 runs of which 9 are byes (yay extra ball...) and 5 fours and 2 ...now make it 3 sixes as it's 58. The run rate is already north of 14. Oh yeah and we've dropped two potential catches. Hopefully it's just a bad track for bowling with the conditions but I don't know if Ireland have 150 runs in 12 overs in those bats.

Edit: and we have a wicket and what a wicket. I love the Bangladeshi batter continuing to walk after he missed his swing. Maybe the break we needed?
 

thehitcat

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Tamim Iqbal who did most of the early damage is caught at bowled with the last ball of the 8th over. 94 for 2 run rate down under 12 and their openers are now finally gone. Kind of wanted him to get his 50 but as he had 4 of their 5 sixes probably better for my boys if he has a seat.

Edit: And the rain is back and they are back off the field. What are the rules for situations like this. Will Ireland get to bat for at least 8 overs even if it goes to tomorrow or can they just call it as it stands?
 
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thehitcat

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OK just read up on DLS doesn't really answer my question if the storm intensifies and they can't get back out tonight so I'll leave that to you guys. But now I have another question. Bangladesh stands 94/2 after 8 overs. Per DLS and cricinfo the target for Ireland if they get 8 overs is 108. Why do they need 14 more runs than Bangladesh actually accumulated in the same number of overs per DLS. That I do not understand. So technically they could score 100 runs in 8 overs and lose even though they will have more runs than Bangladesh actually got in the same number of overs. I get having rates if they can't bat the same number of overs (its 72 for 5, 84 for 6 and 96 for 7) though on second thought that last makes no sense to me as well. You would think the target would be the target and everything else would flow down from there. Guess I'm never going to be a good at math because by arithmetic this doesn't add up.
 

thehitcat

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Out with a whimper. Match Abandoned, I guess Ireland doesn't get a chance to reply. As someone who was brought up on baseball I find that to be a terrible way to decide something.
 

MiracleOfO2704

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England won an Ashes 3 years ago based on shit weather. It's so cricket.

Just looked back. England was winning that series anyway, but 3 matches affected by rain, and if anything, England were denied a fourth win because the umpires called stumps on the last day with 4 overs left for bad light.

And as for DLS, well...



...it turned 22 off 13 balls into that picture.
 
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CSteinhardt

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OK just read up on DLS doesn't really answer my question if the storm intensifies and they can't get back out tonight so I'll leave that to you guys. But now I have another question. Bangladesh stands 94/2 after 8 overs. Per DLS and cricinfo the target for Ireland if they get 8 overs is 108. Why do they need 14 more runs than Bangladesh actually accumulated in the same number of overs per DLS. That I do not understand. So technically they could score 100 runs in 8 overs and lose even though they will have more runs than Bangladesh actually got in the same number of overs. I get having rates if they can't bat the same number of overs (its 72 for 5, 84 for 6 and 96 for 7) though on second thought that last makes no sense to me as well. You would think the target would be the target and everything else would flow down from there. Guess I'm never going to be a good at math because by arithmetic this doesn't add up.
The short answer is that they get to use all 10 wickets over those 8 overs, whereas Bangladesh was expecting to need to conserve wickets in order to bat through 20.

The idea is basically this:

When you're batting, you're thinking about how to use your resources as effectively as possible over the time allotted. It's like one of those German board games. As an example from my own batting (middle order batsman, club level in SoCal), if I come in at the very end of an innings, with the goal of just swinging hard at every ball until I get out, I average about 12 runs off 4 balls (18 per over). That's a great run rate, but a typical side only has about 5-6 true batsmen, so you couldn't score 360 runs off 20 overs this way. Rather, our team would typically end up with about 70 runs scored off under 5 overs, but be all out. So, the idea is that there are two kinds of resources, both how many balls you get to face and how many batsmen are remaining. For the latter, technically you have 11 batsmen in a side, but most of the runs will be scored by the top 7-9, with some teams having deeper batting orders than others, depending upon how well their bowlers can bat. If Bangladesh were 94/8 after 8 overs, they would have been likely to score around 105 runs for 20 overs. At 94/2, they were probably looking at a score nearly double that. The D/L total would have been far lower if they were 94/8, reflecting this difference.

So, in practice, early in a 20-over match, my job is partly to score runs at a good rate but also partly to make sure that I don't get out, knowing that we can accelerate our scoring very quickly at the end if we have extra wickets in hand. Essentially, reflecting both kinds of resources. In my case, I usually come in to bat when 2 (later in the innings) or 3 (early in the innings) people are out. So, on the rare occasions that I bat in the first couple of overs, our score might be something like 1/3, and my primary job is to not get out for a while, calm things down, and make sure that we're able to use all of our resources. The last time I was put in that position in a T20, I scored 28 runs off 41 balls (4.1/over), which is really, really slow for a T20 but was what the situation called for -- we got ourselves to 59/5 with 4 overs left and ended up scoring 92/8. We lost anyway, but actually took 7 wickets in reply and gave ourselves a shot, whereas if I had scored a quick 12 off 4 balls, we probably would have ended up with a total under 50.

A more normal situation for me is that I come in around the 10th over and aim to start scoring about 6-8 runs per over and then gradually accelerate until I get out, because as fewer balls remain, it becomes correct to be more aggressive. My actual average over the past couple of seasons is 38 off 25 balls (9/over).

So, the point is that D/L is taking these differences in available resources into account and doing a calculation as to what looks equivalent. It's not fair to compare what Bangladesh did in the *first* 8 overs with what Ireland would do in their *only* 8 overs, because Bangladesh was told to bat through 20.

A smaller effect, but the same idea, would be to imagine that baseball worked the same way. My team bats 9 innings first, and we score 6 runs against your pitching. Now it rains, and you're going to only get to bat for 3 innings. Is scoring 2 runs equivalent? No, of course not -- I get to use my whole pitching staff for those three innings and avoid filling the other 6, so you're only going to face my high-leverage relievers. In baseball, this is a smaller but real effect -- fewer runs are scored in the late innings. [Which brings me to another question to think about -- does that mean you should use a pitching staff differently? But let me keep pondering that one and cut this post off here.]
 
I tend to root against India - because I hate the BCCI, not the Indian team/players/country etc. - and was pretty disgusted by New Zealand's approach in the first five overs, to the point that instead of keeping the game on in the background while I worked, I turned it off so I could concentrate. Luckily I checked in again at the start of India's innings, just in case...and wow, that was something else to watch. The consensus was that New Zealand read the pitch perfectly and chose the right side; some of those NZ spinners were turning the ball square. I've got to wonder who the Indian groundskeeper was, because that wasn't a normal T20 pitch. (I love seeing pitches in short-form cricket that offer something different, though, so it's all good to me.)
 
By the way, with my stats geek hat on, shouldn't Duckworth-Lewis be incorporated into the net run rate calculation used as a group stage tiebreaker? I don't think you'd need to change anything if the side batting first wins (unless you want to somehow penalize a side batting second for getting bowled out early), but if the side batting second wins, it seems to me as though its projected 20-over D/L total ought to matter. A team that wins by one wicket with four overs left has done far less well than a team that wins by nine wickets with three overs left, but that's not reflected in the standings.
 

thehitcat

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I was out most of the day so I didn't have a chance to see it as it happened but what a comeback from England. I thought they were dead and buried.
 
Nobody seems to care enough about this tournament to post, but it's been fantastic entertainment so far. England-Afghanistan, India-Bangladesh and South Africa-West Indies were all cracking entertainment in the past week, very few games have been blowouts, and the variety in wickets has made for both low-scoring and high-scoring games. I'd be quite happy for the Super 10 stage to be a true round-robin, with the top four teams advancing to the semifinals...get rid of the rest days and it wouldn't take too much longer than it already does.

Meanwhile, England is in a very strong position against Sri Lanka - the latter being 38-4 after 7 overs, chasing 172.
 
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And another tremendously exciting game comes to an end - Sri Lanka chased their target all the way to the end, but the last two overs of death bowling by Jordan and Stokes were brilliant, and Mathews both ran out of partners and tension in his hamstring. So England will almost certainly play New Zealand in one semifinal, while West Indies will play the India-Australia winner in the other semifinal. (That can only change if Afghanistan inflicts a huge defeat on the Windies and England jumps to the top of the group on net run rate...so that's not happening.)