Chris Simms: Brady Not Top-5 QB Anymore

[soxfan121]

Chris Simms, on the Dan Patrick Show 10 a.m. segment, audio should be posted on their site shortly. 
 
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Andrew Luck
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Russell Wilson
5. Peyton Manning
 
EDIT: FC has a take.

 

[ShaneTrot]

Chris Simms, on the Dan Patrick Show 10 a.m. segment, audio should be posted on their site shortly. 
 
1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Andrew Luck
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Russell Wilson
5. Peyton Manning
 
 

Obviously, Brady and spleenless had issues when he worked for the Pats. Who would take Ben over Brady? At least the other guys are young. Besides Manning of course.

 

[MakMan44]

http://nesn.com/2014/11/chris-simms-tom-brady-is-not-a-top-five-nfl-quarterback/
 
 
 

“I hate how everybody just says Tom Brady and Peyton Manning are the best two quarterbacks in football,” Simms said. “They’re not. Are they gonna be 65 years old and we’ll all be saying, ‘Brady and Manning are still the best?’ Tom Brady’s not in my top five. I mean, he’s still really good, but I like other guys better. I’d go Aaron Rodgers one, Andrew Luck two, Ben Roethlisberger three, Russell Wilson four and Peyton five.”

 

[Ed Hillel]

Apparently he said it in MMQB a few days ago:
 
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/11/12/chris-simms-needs-to-stop-talking-football-after-his-comments-about-tom-brady/
 
Apple doesn't fall far, etc. Who really cares, though? This guy is a nothing, I'm sure a lot of idiots think the same thing.
 
I will say I enjoy the idea that Russell Wilson is better than both Peyton Manning and Tom Brady, though.

 

[NickEsasky]

Who the fuck cares? OH NOES!11!!! Some shitty never made it QB doesn't think Tom Brady is a top 5 QB in the league anymore. The horror!! Pats fans are so predictable. 

 

[Leather]

Who the fuck cares? OH NOES!11!!! Some shitty never made it QB doesn't think Tom Brady is a top 5 QB in the league anymore. The horror!! Pats fans are so predictable. 

 
I imagine all of your conversations are full of deep insights and profound discoveries.   So, too, with every fan of your favorite team.  
 
Except for the quoted post, of course.  That's a one-time thing.

 

[soxfan121]

Apparently he said it in MMQB a few days ago:
 
http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/11/12/chris-simms-needs-to-stop-talking-football-after-his-comments-about-tom-brady/

 
Why do you keep reading Peter King?

 

[Ed Hillel]

 
Why do you keep reading Peter King?

 
I don't. I think the fact that Peter King apparently interviewed Chris Simms and published what he said re-enforces that decision.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I have zero fucks to give about this. If Brady's top-10 instead of top-5, I don't care. I just want to win on Sunday.

 

[LondonSox]

 
Why do you keep reading Peter King?

 
I do it to inspire me. If this jackass can make it why not us?

 

[Leather]

I think it's potentially interesting from a Brady Career Narrative point of view.
 
I mean, through 2004 or so, Brady was seldom talked about as a viable MVP candidate.  Yet he was also considered one of the best QB's because he was a great game manager and didn't fuck up.   Yet, Simms would be pilloried for saying "Brady isn't a top 5 QB! It's Manning, Trent Green, McNabb, Brees, and Culpepper!"  It's like Brady's reputation as a "winner" obscures the fact that he's had some historically great statistical seasons.  
 
Basically, Simms argument boils down to:  "I'm sick of hearing about Tom Brady!"  

 

[tims4wins]

Wilson ranks:
#25 in passing yards
# 18 in YPA
#18 in completion %
#19 in passer rating
 
ELITE

 

[glennhoffmania]

I have zero fucks to give about this. If Brady's top-10 instead of top-5, I don't care. I just want to win on Sunday.

 
Yeah I don't understand why any of you guys give a shit.  Personally I don't think Brady is top five either, but if they keep winning what difference does it make?
 

Wilson ranks:
#25 in passing yards
# 18 in YPA
#18 in completion %
#19 in passer rating
 
ELITE

 
Come on, you can do better than that.

 

[Silverdude2167]

 
Yeah I don't understand why any of you guys give a shit.  Personally I don't think Brady is top five either, but if they keep winning what difference does it make?
 

I did not like his list, and putting Wilson and Big Ben ahead of Brady is insane, Wilson only works if you are taking into account his contract and that does not work for a "best QB" list.
 
Out of curiosity, who would you put ahead of Brady?

 

[NickEsasky]

 
I imagine all of your conversations are full of deep insights and profound discoveries.   So, too, with every fan of your favorite team.  
 
Except for the quoted post, of course.  That's a one-time thing.

I'm a Pats fan too, clownshoes. I just think it's silly that every time some hack in the media dares to say something less than glowing about the Patriots people get all up in arms and take complete offense. It's silly. Clearly this stuff bothers you and that's fine, but I think it's dumb. Brady is kicking ass and taking names right now and the Pats are winning games. That's what i care about not what Chris fucking Simms has to say. 

 

[Silverdude2167]

I'm a Pats fan too, clownshoes. I just think it's silly that every time some hack in the media dares to say something less than glowing about the Patriots people get all up in arms and take complete offense. It's silly. Clearly this stuff bothers you and that's fine, but I think it's dumb. Brady is kicking ass and taking names right now and the Pats are winning games. That's what i care about not what Chris fucking Simms has to say. 

You are right, who cares what the media says. But it is fun to talk about. And forget the Pats, this list is just stupid.
If he had left Manning off of his list instead of Brady it would most likely be talked about as well. Also to that point, Manning at 5 is equally insane.

 

[Rico Guapo]

Why the hell is this in BBTL? We have a specific forum to bitch about the media...

 

[NickEsasky]

I'm fine with people discussing stuff like this and it is a stupid list. I guess my thing is: consider the source. It's Chris Simms. If this was someone who actually had some credibility I'd be right there discussing it too. But Chris Simms is a nobody. You know how Chris Simms starts to make a name for himself in the media and get recognized? By saying things like Tom Brady is not a top 5 QB and then listing Roethlisberger and Russel Wilson and his 180 YPG ahead of him. 

 

[rodderick]

Who the fuck cares? OH NOES!11!!! Some shitty never made it QB doesn't think Tom Brady is a top 5 QB in the league anymore. The horror!! Pats fans are so predictable. 

 
Oh my god, Patriots fans are discussing something related to Tom Brady on a Boston-centric message board!!! It's not hurting anybody, just don't click the topic if you don't want to read about it.

 

[tims4wins]

 
Come on, you can do better than that.

 
Well duh. And obviously Wilson brings a lot to the table as a spread option running QB as well.
 
But if you ignore his contract, I think he would barely crack most people's top 10, let alone top 5 (right now). I'd probably trade Brady for him straight up right now due to his age. But the QB that gives me the best chance to win this year list has to have Wilson much further down.

 

[glennhoffmania]

I did not like his list, and putting Wilson and Big Ben ahead of Brady is insane, Wilson only works if you are taking into account his contract and that does not work for a "best QB" list.
 
Out of curiosity, who would you put ahead of Brady?

 
 

 
Well duh. And obviously Wilson brings a lot to the table as a spread option running QB as well.
 
But if you ignore his contract, I think he would barely crack most people's top 10, let alone top 5 (right now). I'd probably trade Brady for him straight up right now due to his age. But the QB that gives me the best chance to win this year list has to have Wilson much further down.

 
I actually don't know where I'd rank Wilson right now, partly because I think his receivers are fucking terrible.  But my top four, not necessarily in this order, are Rodgers, Brees, Manning and Luck.  After that I'm not 100% sure.  Brady is in the discussion for fifth.  I really like Stafford too, and Rivers has been very good for the last 1.5 seasons.  So Brady would at best be fifth, at worst I'd put him maybe eighth.
 
But again, who gives a shit.  I'll go to my grave arguing that Marino was the best ever, and I really do believe that.  But my team hasn't won shit in my lifetime.

 

[rodderick]

 
 
 
I actually don't know where I'd rank Wilson right now, partly because I think his receivers are fucking terrible.  But my top four, not necessarily in this order, are Rodgers, Brees, Manning and Luck.  After that I'm not 100% sure.  Brady is in the discussion for fifth.  I really like Stafford too, and Rivers has been very good for the last 1.5 seasons.  So Brady would at best be fifth, at worst I'd put him maybe eighth.
 
But again, who gives a shit.  I'll go to my grave arguing that Marino was the best ever, and I really do believe that.  But my team hasn't won shit in my lifetime.

 
How is Drew Brees a better quarterback than Tom Brady right now? And if you put Brady behind Matthew Stafford you're certifiably insane, I'm sorry. They're not in the same stratosphere of quarterbacking.

 

[RIrooter09]

He must not watch a lot of Saints football. Brees forces more throws into triple coverage than any of these so called "elite" QB's and it's not even close.

 

[mauf]

I think 5th is the lowest you can reasonably rate Brady (behind Manning, Rodgers, Luck and Rivers), and I probably would put him 3rd or 4th.

 

[Van Everyman]

Would anyone here argue that Brady is the best QB in the NFL? Honest question.

 

[riboflav]

 
 
 
I actually don't know where I'd rank Wilson right now, partly because I think his receivers are fucking terrible.  But my top four, not necessarily in this order, are Rodgers, Brees, Manning and Luck.  After that I'm not 100% sure.  Brady is in the discussion for fifth.  I really like Stafford too, and Rivers has been very good for the last 1.5 seasons.  So Brady would at best be fifth, at worst I'd put him maybe eighth.
 
But again, who gives a shit.  I'll go to my grave arguing that Marino was the best ever, and I really do believe that.  But my team hasn't won shit in my lifetime.

 
Let me help you:
 
1. Luck (ignore the interception per game)
2. Rodgers
3. Manning (Peyton not Eli)
4. Big Ben
5. Brees
6. Flacco
7. Wilson
8. Rivers
9. Stafford
10. Hoyer
11. Tanny
12. Brady (in a tie with...)
12. Colin
 
EDIT: Forgot Rivers
Double EDIT: Shit, forgot Stafford

 

[IdiotKicker]

Would anyone here argue that Brady is the best QB in the NFL? Honest question.

Anyone can have a strong one or two seasons, even a couple great stretches like that throughout a career. Greatness is about the consistency of peak performance. Given how close the race is statistically this year, I would still put Brady and Manning behind Rodgers in the race for the top spot, and I don't think it's particularly close with anyone else after that. Luck is in the conversation for the future, but he still doesn't have the peak of any of those guys, nor nowhere near the consistency.

 

[Silverdude2167]

I don't think you can put Luck ahead of Brady at the moment. In a year he might be the best, but he still makes to many mistakes a game.
He relys to much on his insane skills which allow him to make amazing throws, but also causes far more negative plays than the Top Tier QB's right now.

 

[riboflav]

I struggled with Cutler, but I reason if he has two good games in a row, he jumps ahead of Brady, too.

 

[Silverdude2167]

I struggled with Cutler, but I reason if he has two good games in a row, he jumps ahead of Brady, too.

Grappolo played much better against the Chiefs than Brady in the same game. I would have to consider him better too.

 

[riboflav]

Grappolo played much better against the Chiefs than Brady in the same game. I would have to consider him better too.

 
Many did. 
 
As a Brady fan, I'm also worried if Dalton loses a playoff game this season by only one score, Brady is going to fall on this list regardless of what Cutler ends up doing.

 

[Bosoxen]

 
Let me help you:
 
1. Luck (ignore the interception per game)
2. Rodgers
3. Manning (Peyton not Eli)
4. Big Ben
5. Brees
6. Flacco
7. Wilson
8. Rivers
9. Stafford
10. Hoyer
11. Tanny
12. Brady (in a tie with...)
12. Colin
 
EDIT: Forgot Rivers
Double EDIT: Shit, forgot Stafford

 
One of these things is not like the others.

 

[rodderick]

Would anyone here argue that Brady is the best QB in the NFL? Honest question.

 
Right now Rodgers is the best passer in the league hands down, but If I'm down 7 with 5 minutes to go in a big game I'll take Brady over him. So my answer is "no", but I don't think the diffeence is big between him and the top guy.

 

[TheMoralBully]

Brady looks like 2011 - 2012 Brady, where the only QB who was definitely better was Rodgers.  He's #3 to me and having him out of the top 5 is pretty crazy.  Same with having Russell Wilson and Roethlisberger ahead of Phillip Rivers and Manning.  Just a stupid list.

 

[riboflav]

 
One of these things is not like the others.

 
Single-handedly turning that losing franchise around. I'm surprised I didn't put him higher. 
 
EDIT: Spelling

 

[mascho]

I'm just glad Karim Garcia found work. Even if it is breaking down NFL QBs.

 

[Silverdude2167]

 
Right now Rodgers is the best passer in the league hands down, but If I'm down 7 with 5 minutes to go in a big game I'll take Brady over him.

This is the one question I have about Rodgers. I believe he is the best QB in the league right now, but his record coming from behind is abysmal. I doubt it is a fair judge of a QB at all, but his numbers are a just so bad.
Rodgers has 7 forth quarter comebacks and Brady has 31 and Manning has 40  (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm).
As of the summer of 2012 he was (3-18) in forth quarter comeback situations. Just such a bad record it is weird.

 

[mwonow]

 
Single-handily turning that losing franchise around. I'm surprised I didn't put him higher.

I'm thinking that the Texans-Browns game will settle the "Best NFL QB to have worn a Pats uni" question once and for all

 

[Skeesix]

Basically, Simms argument boils down to:  "I'm sick of hearing about Tom Brady!"  

 
You know, it's funny. I've never gotten tired of people talking about Chris Simms. I wonder why that is.

 

[TheMoralBully]

This is the one question I have about Rodgers. I believe he is the best QB in the league right now, but his record coming from behind is abysmal. I doubt it is a fair judge of a QB at all, but his numbers are a just so bad.
Rodgers has 7 forth quarter comebacks and Brady has 31 and Manning has 40  (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/comebacks_career.htm).
As of the summer of 2012 he was (3-18) in forth quarter comeback situations. Just such a bad record it is weird.

 
NFL.com has the situational 4th quarther within 7 stats.  He's very good, in line with Brady in 2009, 10, 12.  In 2011 he was ridiculously good in these situations.  Obviously not a tell-all, but the 4th quarter come back record could have a lot to do with Mike McCarthy and a sometimes awful defense.

 

[Bosoxen]

 
Single-handily turning that losing franchise around. I'm surprised I didn't put him higher.

 
Oh, I see. You were just kidding around. Carry on, then.

 

[rodderick]

 
NFL.com has the situational 4th quarther within 7 stats.  He's very good, in line with Brady in 2009, 10, 12.  In 2011 he was ridiculously good in these situations.  Obviously not a tell-all, but the 4th quarter come back record could have a lot to do with Mike McCarthy and a sometimes awful defense.

 
I believe he never won a game when trailing by 9 points or more in the second half. That's pretty bad for a quarterback of his level. Obviously, it doesn't fall solely on his shoulders, but watching him play I feel like he lacks the "fuck it, gotta make a play at any cost now" mentality that guys like Manning or Brady have when push comes to shove. I mean, does any fanbase in football feel safe going into the second half up 9 against Brady/Manning or even Luck?

 

[Ed Hillel]

I struggled with Cutler, but I reason if he has two good games in a row, he jumps ahead of Brady, too.

 
You forgot Romo.
 
I think Romo actually teeters on top 5 at times, but every time I do that, Romo happens or he breaks his back.

 

[riboflav]

 
You forgot Romo.
 
I think Romo actually teeters on top 5 at times, but every time I do that, Romo happens or he breaks his back.

 
You're right. Sometimes, it's hard to keep track of all the QBs better than Brady (and, according to some, the list is growing for Manning too).

 

[Stitch01]

 
 
 
I actually don't know where I'd rank Wilson right now, partly because I think his receivers are fucking terrible.  But my top four, not necessarily in this order, are Rodgers, Brees, Manning and Luck.  After that I'm not 100% sure.  Brady is in the discussion for fifth.  I really like Stafford too, and Rivers has been very good for the last 1.5 seasons.  So Brady would at best be fifth, at worst I'd put him maybe eighth.
 
But again, who gives a shit.  I'll go to my grave arguing that Marino was the best ever, and I really do believe that.  But my team hasn't won shit in my lifetime.

I think Stafford being in the top five QB discussion offends me more than the original list.
 
Brees play has slipped materially.  Rodgers, Manning, and probably Luck clear top 5.  Rivers in the discussion.

 

[Seels]

I personally think it's insane to put anyone in the same breath as Peyton and Tom except Rodgers. Honestly I'm not even sure Rodgers belongs there. These are the two greatest ever and aside from some arm strength there is no noticeable difference between them now and them 5 or 10 years ago. Luck isn't remotely close and he's probably #4.
 
I'm not even sure Rodgers is in the conversation really, passer rating be damned. That dude takes a lot of sacks, has played in the worst division in his conference most of his career, and has a knack for being a bit less than clutch. Rodgers is an outstanding athlete with amazing tools but aside from his MVP season I don't think he's Manning and Brady.

 

[Stitch01]

He belongs there if he plays another 6 or 7 years at this level.  Luck isn't as good today, but his performance shows a lot of signs that he could get there.

 

[Seels]

He belongs there if he plays another 6 or 7 years at this level.  Luck isn't as good today, but his performance shows a lot of signs that he could get there.

Sure. But you have the greatest two ever in the league. There's no need to be premature with Luck. Maybe he'll get there, but it's absolutely insane to compare him to football gods right now while they're still playing at the level.

 

[riboflav]

I'm thinking that the Texans-Browns game will settle the "Best NFL QB to have worn a Pats uni" question once and for all

 
Normally, I would agree with you buuuuuuuuuuut... did you see that opening drive Cassel put up against the Patriots in week two? And Brady was just sitting on the sidelines watching it happen.

 

[rodderick]

I personally think it's insane to put anyone in the same breath as Peyton and Tom except Rodgers. Honestly I'm not even sure Rodgers belongs there. These are the two greatest ever and aside from some arm strength there is no noticeable difference between them now and them 5 or 10 years ago. Luck isn't remotely close and he's probably #4.
 
I'm not even sure Rodgers is in the conversation really, passer rating be damned. That dude takes a lot of sacks, has played in the worst division in his conference most of his career, and has a knack for being a bit less than clutch. Rodgers is an outstanding athlete with amazing tools but aside from his MVP season I don't think he's Manning and Brady.

 
Aaron Rodgers at this point is a righty Steve Young. Athletic, crazy accurate, ridiculous efficiency stats, but still a tier below the top dogs in the greatest quarterbacks conversation.
 
Obviously, Aaron has at least 7 more seasons to improve on this characterization (which is already pretty damn good).