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Discussion in 'Blinded by the Lombardis: Patriots Forum' started by mwonow, Sep 14, 2015.
The 2013 Broncos fixed their defense pretty quickly but they obviously spent good money to do so.
I saw a back page headline on the NY Daily News today that the Patriots just broke the record for most Super Bowl losses with 5 (breaking a tie with Minnesota and Buffalo, who combined have zero wins).
Meanwhile the Pats remain tied for second most wins with 5.
Broncos have lost 5.
So you’re saying I can’t believe the NY Daiky News?!? Where’s Leo Carrillo?
(Maybe it was the Post.)
(Maybe I’m an idiot.)
I've been saying that myself (in as non-douchy a way as I can manage). It's true. So far it's gone over well.
The first one is pretty sweet. But everybody knows that the fifth one is unequivocally the sweetest.
Thank you all for this thread. One day I'll re-watch this game and appreciate the way the offense clicked...without that sinking feeling of if only...
I can watch the Denver 2015 game, appreciate Brady's toughness, or Gronk's greatness...not become so furious at Stork, the loss to Miami that cost them home field.
I'll watch this one someday, FF past the tough plays--and revel in the greatness. May take a year, maybe two--but the good parts will be in the Brady/Belichek archive.
I mean, they were in the Goddamn Super Bowl for the second year in a row, and they won last year. Even putting the other 4 Championships aside, that's incredible. That's basically the Seahawks' (probably the second or third best team over the past 5 years) entire Golden Age, and more than many teams (Vikings, Saints, Falcons, etc...) have ever achieved. And, to varying degrees, those teams have been pretty good recently.
Being in the Super Bowl is an achievement in its own right. I remember, back in the 90s, remembering with fondness the 85 and 96 seasons because, hey, those were ones that I simply had a rooting interest in. They weren't *my team's* championships, but they were still *my team's* Super Bowls.
Some folks need to take a step back and take in the big picture, because I gotta say: to the fans of literally every other sports franchise in the nation, being angry or genuinely upset about the Patriots today is flat-out ridiculous, and is probably a sign that you're a little out of touch or take these things way too seriously.
In the words of a Vikings fan I spoke to yesterday: "Yeah, I mean, I wasn't rooting for the Eagles, but at the same time, nice of you guys to let someone else have one."
Brady and the Pats have had 4th quarter drives that either tied the game or gave them the lead in 7 of 8 Super Bowls.
Spoiler: The exception
2011 vs. Giants
Not sure this has been posted anywhere yet, but a great piece by LaCanfora at cbssports.com:
"Tom Brady is underrated. Markedly, possibly exceedingly, underrated.
Yes, I wrote the above sentence of my own free will and volition. No, this is not a hot take or faux content spewed out by some algorithm designed to obtain the maximum exposure on a google search. And by the end of this exercise you too may come to the same conclusions I have about precisely how astonishing Brady's career has been, and why it far surpasses anything else we have ever seen in this sport in its totality of regular-season and playoff success.
No one at this position has ever done more with less. No one."
"The reality is, Brady's one true advantage, outside of those he creates for the Patriotsvirtually every game he plays, is his coupling with football savant Bill Belichick as his head coach. That consistency and continuity cannot be overstated – only Charlie Weis, Bill O'Brien and Josh McDaniels have held the title of offensive coordinator in New England since Brady became the starting quarterback in 2001 – but it's coupled with the reality that every year Brady is asked to do more with less in terms of the talent around him. He routinely turns castoffs and undrafted slot guys into stars, goes deep into the playoffs in seasons in which Reche Caldwell, Brandon Lloyd and Brandon LeFell have been too targets, and he's managed to reach eight Super Bowls and win five despite being mired, by-and-large, with skill players who more closely resembled the limited units that we'd associate with the offensive rosters that held back guys like Dan Marino and John Elway (until the very end) from achieving postseason greatness."
"Even if you dissect the defensive rosters during Brady's incredible, dynastic run with New England, it's slim pickings in terms of truly transcendent talent. Moss and Gronk are Hall of Famers, but no Pats offensive lineman will even be seriously considered, and as a slot guy who didn't score many touchdowns, Welker was limited as well. Save for the three years with Moss, Brady has never been paired with an outside receiver making anywhere close to top dollar. And no running back from this Patriots era will ever even be a Hall of Fame finalist; consider that Coery Dillon, who spent just three seasons in New England and last played in 2006, is the Pats leading rusher during the Brady era with 753 carries for 3,180 yards (a modest 4.2 per carry) and 37 TDs. LeGarrette Blount is second with 677 rushes for 2,917 yards (4.3 per carry) with 34 TDs."
"The only Pats running back to last more than four seasons in New England during Brady's 17-year run is Brandon Bolden, a special teams guy. Only 10 Patriots have more rushing yards than Brady during his career in New England, and we all know he can barely move and basically just runs QB sneaks (557 carries for 968 yards, a whopping 1.74 per attempt!). It's a one-man show, people, in a way that is almost incomprehensible. As for true standouts/potential Hall of Famers or guys already in the Hall who have played with Brady on the other side of the ball, it's a short list, too – kicker Adam Vinatieri (five years with Brady), corner Darrelle Revis (one year), end Richard Seymour (eight years), linebacker Junior Seau (three years at end of his career), linebacker Willie McGinest (five years), safety Rodney Harrison (six years), safety Ty Law (four years) and tackle Vince Wilfork (11 years). It's Brady and Belichick, folks."
"Hate him if you like, but to fail to appreciate him is to deny history and overlook the facts. He is the greatest ever, and it isn't even really close anymore."
I'm 44 years old and I've witnessed my team make it to ten Super Bowls. TEN. I just needed to write that down.
Yep. And there's no shame at all in losing half of them. The Super Bowl is supposed to be a matchup of the best teams. They played:
1985/86 - an all-time great Bears team (lost)
1996-97 - a great and loaded Packers team (lost)
2001-02 - a great and loaded Rams team (won)
2003-04 - a solid Panthers team (won)
2004-05 - an excellent Eagles team (won)
2007-08 - a decent Giants team (lost)
2011-10 - a mediocre Giants team (lost)
2014-15 - a great, on-the-verge-of-being-a-dynasty Seahawks team (won)
2016-17 - a very good Falcons team (won)
2017-18 - a very good Eagles team (lost)
That's pretty damned respectable. If I was to rank the quality of their opponents, they'd be like this:
1. 85 Bears (L)
2. 01 Rams (W)
3. 14 Seahawks (W)
4. 96 Packers (L)
5. 04 Eagles (W)
6. 17 Eagles (L)
7. 16 Falcons (W)
8. 07 Giants (L)
9. 03 Panthers (W)
10. 11 Giants (L)
They also had two such drives in two of them (03, 16) so nine overall
Just as a reminder of how hard it is in today's NFL to keep great teams together...
The 2014 Seattle Seahawks were the defending Super Bowl champs, having just demolished MVP Peyton Manning (55 TDs, 10 INTs, 5477 yards, 115.1 rating) and the Denver Broncos. They were gunning for their second straight SB title. They had an extremely talented, young team, one of the best defenses in NFL history, and entered the SB with swagger.
The Patriots beat them in dramatic fashion.
Since then, they've gone 10-6, 10-5-1, and 9-7, failing to make the playoffs in 2017.
And now their defense is being dismantled. Sherman could be gone. Chancellor isn't the same player. Avril might be gone. Thomas might be gone. And now the team is looking to trade Michael Bennett.
They're headed for a major rebuild, just three years removed from being on the cusp of a dynasty.
Think about that and appreciate that the Patriots have ALWAYS been right at the top of the NFL. Always. Someday that won't be true, but it's taken no time at all for Seattle to go from dynasty to rebuilding. The Patriots in the BB era have never had to rebuild. Not once. Reload. Improve. But never rebuild.
Bumping this now that Sherman has been released and Bennett has been released. The Seattle "dynasty" is over. The Pats are the Super Bowl favorites for 2018.
They might as well sign Malcolm Butler to get them started on the road back.
The GOAT QB will have the (arguable, anyway) GOAT TE for 2018-2019. That's worth celebrating!
I have no idea where to put this but:
Trump appointing Belichick to Presidential Council on Sports, Fitness, and Nutrition.
Clearly BB got Trump to do this to stick it to Brady over Alex Guerrero. "You think your guy knows nutrition? I'm on a Presidential Council!"
Is this another one of those councils that DJT assembles that never, ever meets?
I dunno. Mariano Rivera's on it too.
Their meetings are electrifying.
Historically, may be the descendant of the President’s Council on Physical Fitness. If it is, it’s 65+ years old.
Has this council ever done anything of note in its existence outside of giving people certificates for the Presidents Challenge or whatever? I'm pretty sure Drew Brees wasn't out there hammering away at policy when he co-chaired it.
This gave me the giggles--without the /Felger.
Edit: Just reread it and got the giggles again.
I posted most of this in a Sox thread but I think it would be more appreciated here (and 4 months is far too long for this excellent thread to remain dormant). File this under "If the Pats Played Baseball":
With the Sox on their historic run this year and expected to win a franchise best 105 to 112 wins, I wondered what the Pats' record is over their past 162 regular season games (dating back to Week 16 of 2007).
Spoiler: Any guesses?
Looking back further, the Pats' previous 162 games before the latest 'season' was no slouch either. From Week 14 '97 to Week 15 '07 they went 109-53, a record I think Sox fans would be quite happy matching this year.
New England's peak 162 game stretch came in a stretch from early 2003 until mid-2013 (those runs starting from Weeks 2, 3 or 5 of 2003 until Weeks 3, 4 or 6 of 2013) and is 4 games better than their current record
Spoiler: Peak Record
. The Pats can match that record if they start this season 12-0 and can set a new mark by winning the 1st 14 games of the year. Hopefully something to look out for...
I bet there are some killer college football coach memes coming down the pipe.
Pats doormats now?
Yes, on sale at Woot!
They also have some other NFL team logo merchandise on sale.
Jim Irsay probably bought one with the Colts logo to hang up at Lucas Oil.
Fun fact: Other than 1995, Bill Belichick-coached defenses have never finished lower than 17th in the league in points allowed, even dating back to his time as LBs coach on the Giants.
I think we'll probably muddle through.
via Imgflip Meme Generator
Papelbon's Poutine said: ↑
It’d be nice if we had a LB that could cover. Jesus. Cross your fingers we don’t meet the Chiefs, Kelce would make Swiss cheese out of us.
Look - I'm pretty sure that you won't be able to cover Jesus with a linebacker. You gotta at least put a corner over the top of him with safety support.
For a straight fly route, sure you'll need support, but he's got issues with crossing patterns
In terms of routes, Jesus takes the wheel.
Brady still doubts his abilities.
Jesus' hands could be listed as "questionable."
Another doubting Thomas
Even if Brady resurrected Jesus by going to the grave of Jesus' career and rolling the stone away, I gather he's no Moss.
Only In Boston @OnlyInBOS 11m11 minutes ago
The Patriots win now guarantees a .500 or better record for the 18th consecutive season.
Tom Brady is now the only QB with at least 26 wins against 2 different teams.
The Patriots are now 17-0 since 2014 (including postseason) when Julian Edelman has at least 1 TD in a game.
Tom Brady (79,416) moves past Peyton Manning (79,279) for the most total passing yards in NFL history (regular and postseason).
From Gang Green yesterday (quoting a stat from the broadcast): "78 - 19 in AFC east since Brady started - urghhhh when is he retiring again?"
As I mentioned somewhere else recently, it really doesn't matter how you parse the Patriot record in the Brady era, but the winning percentage ends up around .750.
Games Tom Brady has been in (from profootball-reference.com), regular season only:
Home (131): 112-19 (.855)
Road (133): 92-41 (.692)
vs AFCE (99): 79-20 (.798)
vs all else (165): 125-40 (.758)
in a dome (14): 11-3 (.786)
outdoors (242): 187-55 (.773)
in a retroroof (8): 6-2 (.750)
Final margin 0-7 (103): 72-32 (.699)
Final margin 8-14 (58): 43-15 (.741)
Final margin 15+ (103): 89-14 (.864)
Games 1-4 (64): 45-19 (.703)
Games 4-8 (68): 53-15 (.779)
Games 9-12 (68): 54-14 (.794)
Games 13-16 (64): 52-12 (.813)
Sunday (221): 170-51 (.769)
Monday (23): 16-7 (.696)
Thursday (13): 11-2 (.846)
Saturday (7): 7-0 (1.000)
Early start (137): 109-28 (.796)
Late start (61): 48-13 (.787)
Evening start (66): 47-19 (.712)
So your best bet to beat Tom Brady is to have them at home in a retroroof facility, in the first few weeks of the season, on a Monday night, with a very close score. If that happens, the Patriots still probably have about a 70% chance of beating you.
Seriously, the best bet is to get him in hot weather:
Including his loss to JAX earlier this year, he's 1-5 when the temp is 87 degrees or hotter.
I've argued until I was blue in the face that Brady's ability to play in crappy weather (snow, rain, cold, wind, etc.) is one of the quiet keys to his success that gets almost no attention. Having played football only until the high school level, you could tell the guys that weren't affected by the cold, versus the ones that were, for example. Brady (and Rodgers) are really the only two "great" quarterbacks of all time who spent most of their careers in bad weather, and we all saw how Peyton Manning played when he came to Foxboro in January, etc. Drew Brees' QB rating over his career drops over 10 points when you take him out of a dome. I'd love to see how Marino and Montana played when they had to make trips to New York or Foxboro or Green Bay or Chicago when the weather was really bad. Brady plays and thrives in all of it (except extreme heat, which is kind of odd) like nobody I can remember at the position.
IMO, weather is a variable that is sorely lacking when it comes to the advanced statistics in football, and it's probably got more of an affect on an individual player than almost anyone ever considers. I honestly think baseball could probably use a bit more fine tuning in that regard too. Right now, everyone just looks at how a hitter or pitcher does in April or October, and considers that the "bad weather" without actually looking to see how many games were played in bad weather, how cold it really got, etc. I fucking hated hitting a baseball when my hands were numb. It hurts. A lot.
Which makes the 1 pm game on 12/9 in Miami a potential problem. And maybe a bigger one than the Vikings in Foxboro this coming Sunday or the Steelers in Pittsburgh on December 16.
The promising news is that the long range weather forecast per weather.com has that Sunday at 80 degrees and partly cloudy. And the weather on the days before and after that date are all around the same temperature.
To DOTB’s point, I’d love to see Tom’s winning percentage at the low 80 range.
And depending on how you define "great QBs of all time" there are a bunch of guys from the pre- and early Super Bowl years before domes were everywhere. Tarkenton, Unitas, Kelly, Namath. Eason.
Thanks for doing the legwork to prove my point.
Yep! I meant to @Saints Rest you but I forgot. Your post definitely got me thinking about it so I had to look all that up.