People are vastly underrating a core of Smart, Brown, Tatum, Hayward IMO. They clearly need to add pieces to it, but all 4 of those guys should improve year over year.
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There is the Garland at 4 rumor but even if that falls through I don't expect Ainge to be adding 3 rookies to this team. He's going to be making SOME moves by draft night.If this does happen, I'd love to see the Celtics cash in their picks to see if they can get #2 and draft Morant. I wonder how much Memphis values their own pick...
Isn’t Morant also somewhat likely to be a bust? He came out of nowhere and his jump shot is still developing or questionable...There's no way Memphis does this unless they add Brown or someone. Memphis would have to admit they'll still be bad in 2 years to make that pick anywhere close to the #2 pick.
And some are vastly over-rating that core. Hayward may never be the player he was in Utah while Brown and Tatum each have a lot to work on to become better players. Brown is bad at FTs while Tatum can't finish at the rim and his shot selection was bad at times this year.People are vastly underrating a core of Brown, Tatum, Hayward IMO. They clearly need to add pieces to it, but all 3 of those guys should improve year over year.
Tatum does compare very favorably to past players his age, and those flaws are much, much more likely to improve than regress.And some are vastly over-rating that core. Hayward may never be the player he was in Utah while Brown and Tatum each have a lot to work on to become better players. Brown is bad at FTs while Tatum can't finish at the rim and his shot selection was bad at times this year.
I tend to think that more people overrate these players than underrate them.
I love Al, but he is 33 years old you knowAl Horford even as he ages will likely be worth a full max for at least 3 more years,
Plus, I can't think of a better player in the league to have around to help develop your young players than Al Horford.And some are vastly over-rating that core. Hayward may never be the player he was in Utah while Brown and Tatum each have a lot to work on to become better players. Brown is bad at FTs while Tatum can't finish at the rim and his shot selection was bad at times this year.
I tend to think that more people overrate these players than underrate them.
I wouldn't be surprised. I don't know if you guys remember, but there were rumors of this exact thing happening during the ECF last year, although I dismissed it as silly at the time. In hindsight, it very well could have led to the friction with the young kids this year.I think making the ECF without Kyrie was a blow to his ego, causing him to overcompensate this season, causing the friction. Kyrie likely felt he had to reestablish his alpha status.
Not to single you out, but I'm not sure why people have to keep saying this. Yes, the eastern conference was obviously weaker last year, and I've seen nobody argue that that team would have taken down the Bucks and Raptors this postseason. But the team was still damn impressive. A deep playoff run is a deep playoff run when you have a young team like that.I'm guilty of this too, but that ECF appearance was a mirage and Celtics fans bring it up too much. The east was trash in 2017 and 2018.
The east really improved last year. Toronto added Kawhi, Green, and Gasol. Philly added Butler and Harris. The Bucks hired a real coach.
Pretty sure Bulpett broke that story, but Woj didn't bother to credit him in his follow-up confirmation tweet.The best part of this was watching Woj on SportsCenter. He had a segment saying that Horford opting out was good for Boston, as he was likely to sign a team friendly deal for 3-4 years that would give them cap relief.
About 10-15 minutes later, they showed his tweet saying Horford was prepared to find a deal elsewhere.
Does this really even open up more money than they would have had with exceptions if they stayed over the cap?It's certainly conceivable that after Kyrexit and perhaps also after they assessed trade options they were fine with him leaving and cut their offer today---that would fit wtih the odd reporting change during the day.
Wonder if they have a plan for the money...this has to be getting to the less likely of the many scenarios they modeled out.
What part of team building in the NBA isn't a gamble? The draft is the biggest gamble of them all.Ainge has left so much of the Celtics future up to faith. Faith in poor performances from other teams, faith in ping pong balls, faith in free agents desires to play in Boston. Too much gambling, not enough good old fashioned team building. He’s had a hundred balls in the air the last few years and now he’s left with his dick in his hand and a .500 team. Maybe it’s time to let another GM handle this rebuild,
Good grief manAinge has left so much of the Celtics future up to faith. Faith in poor performances from other teams, faith in ping pong balls, faith in free agents desires to play in Boston. Too much gambling, not enough good old fashioned team building. He’s had a hundred balls in the air the last few years and now he’s left with his dick in his hand and a .500 team. Maybe it’s time to let another GM handle this rebuild,
What would you base this on? Morant has all the necessary physical skills to be a top flight PG at the next level and is already an accomplished playmaker/passer. He's shown the ability and most importantly, the drive to take over games. This kid competes and made a tremendous leap last season from the previous one.....this is a great sign in that he is ascending. The only question I see is the same one that most 19-year olds have in that they are usually inconsistent 3-point shooters. Being that Morant is an above average FT shooter who also made a leap in 3-pt% while possessing good mechanics and excellent range. I don't see shooting the ball being a problem for him down the road. I expect him to be really really good at the next level but of course weird things can and do happen with young players.....I just don't see any red flags from this kid.Isn’t Morant also somewhat likely to be a bust? He came out of nowhere and his jump shot is still developing or questionable...
What Ainge did is called team building in the NBA. It's always a very uncertain path.Ainge has left so much of the Celtics future up to faith. Faith in poor performances from other teams, faith in ping pong balls, faith in free agents desires to play in Boston. Too much gambling, not enough good old fashioned team building. He’s had a hundred balls in the air the last few years and now he’s left with his dick in his hand and a .500 team. Maybe it’s time to let another GM handle this rebuild,
agreed. If Al leaves this team is in for a multi-year rebuild.I hope people know what they are getting with next year's Celtics team. They are in a tough spot with the cap and with Kyrie and Horford out of the fold, they lose their best offensive player and one of their best defenders. All else equal, this team will be lucky to finish much above .500.
Maybe we should wait to hear what the deal is before we assume that Ainge allowed him to walk. If some team throws a 4 year max at him, would you call that letting him walk? If Al comes out and says he wants to go somewhere else for X,Y, Z reasons, would you call that letting him walk?mea culpa here I definitely didn't see this at all, letting him walk is a real head-scratcher.
poorly phased, should have just said " didn't see Al leaving"Maybe we should wait to hear what the deal is before we assume that Ainge allowed him to walk. If some team throws a 4 year max at him, would you call that letting him walk? If Al comes out and says he wants to go somewhere else for X,Y, Z reasons, would you call that letting him walk?
There are myriad reasons why Al Horford might not be on this team next year. And yes, one of those could be that Ainge decided to let him walk.
He built a team that 2 years ago were at worst co-favorites to win the east with a minimum 2 year window, while still maintaining a ton of young talent and future draft picks... then a guy broke his leg, but yeah ainge totally should have anticipated thatAinge has left so much of the Celtics future up to faith. Faith in poor performances from other teams, faith in ping pong balls, faith in free agents desires to play in Boston. Too much gambling, not enough good old fashioned team building. He’s had a hundred balls in the air the last few years and now he’s left with his dick in his hand and a .500 team. Maybe it’s time to let another GM handle this rebuild,
Bold prediction. Let’s see what shakes out. I thought you were against hot takes.I hope people know what they are getting with next year's Celtics team. They are in a tough spot with the cap and with Kyrie and Horford out of the fold, they lose their best offensive player and one of their best defenders. All else equal, this team will be lucky to finish much above .500.
#hinkieknewWhat part of team building in the NBA isn't a gamble? The draft is the biggest gamble of them all.
I don't know if my observation - and it wasn't a prediction - was all that bold. I was very careful to use the phrases "all else equal" and "lucky to finish much above .500". In other words, I wasn't trying to say they would nor was I assuming that the roster is anywhere near finished. I trust Ainge will add some pieces and he may yet have some rabbits up his sleeve.Bold prediction. Let’s see what shakes out. I thought you were against hot takes.
I haven't see 4/160 reported anywhere. The figure being reported is 4/100I will readily admit to knowing next to nothing about the NBA cap or real player contract value, but I find it close to amazing that one day the expectation is for Al to sign a 3 year-home discount type contract ~ 3/75 and then the next, he's a max contract guy (is that now about 4/160?).
If he can get the 4/160 (whatever) good for him. But the Celts are going to miss his abilities on both ends of the court, and his leadership and maturity and class (I hate that word) but Al seemed to have class in spades. He's going to be missed.
Same, not a hot take at all.I've got the current version of the Celtics as right around a .500 team. They won 49 games and just lost their two best players, so saying they may win 8 fewer games doesn't feel like a hot take to me.
Not a hot take, but there are still draft picks and free agents to be signed so the current version likely looks nothing like the 2019/2020 teamI've got the current version of the Celtics as right around a .500 team. They won 49 games and just lost their two best players, so saying they may win 8 fewer games doesn't feel like a hot take to me.
Ainge made a gazillion good moves and mostly got unlucky in every possible way over the past year+.
I will readily admit to knowing next to nothing about the NBA cap or real player contract value, but I find it close to amazing that one day the expectation is for Al to sign a 3 year-home discount type contract ~ 3/75 and then the next, he's a max contract guy (is that now about 4/160?).
If he can get the 4/160 (whatever) good for him. But the Celts are going to miss his abilities on both ends of the court, and his leadership and maturity and class (I hate that word) but Al seemed to have class in spades. He's going to be missed.
what exactly was he supposed to do? How was he maximizing value for Horford? Trade him last February (which would have been insane)?Ainge isn't unlucky here, this is just a GM whiff. He either misread Horford's market or missed the opportunity to maximize the value of the Horford asset by failing to recognize that Horford, like Kyrie, wasn't staying in Boston. Either way, that is on the GM.
I was working off a 4 year "max" contract that I read Al could get either in SoSH threads or elsewhere. if the cost of keeping Al is one (1) additional year at $25 million, from the 3/75, it may be worth it from an organiizational POV and be a little more agressive in sigaling interest.I haven't see 4/160 reported anywhere. The figure being reported is 4/100
This is what team-building looks like in the NBA. It's hard, and it's erratic, and it's non-linear. You need great moves AND great luck. Ainge made smart trades, drafted well, managed his cap and nailed free agency from 2012-2018. He also got help from extreme good luck: Brooklyn cratering after trading all their picks; Fultz falling apart after getting traded for Tatum; IT's health going after the Kryie trade; and two prime superstars jumping from great teams to Boston. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and they've been on the wrong side of luck. Kyrie wasn't a good fit. Hayward got hurt. Horford decided to chase a title elsewhere. This stuff happens. They still have Tatum, Brown, three first round picks, the future Memphis pick and cap space. If Ainge is still good at his job he'll move on to new plan to build a contender. You don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.Ainge has left so much of the Celtics future up to faith. Faith in poor performances from other teams, faith in ping pong balls, faith in free agents desires to play in Boston. Too much gambling, not enough good old fashioned team building. He’s had a hundred balls in the air the last few years and now he’s left with his dick in his hand and a .500 team. Maybe it’s time to let another GM handle this rebuild,
So he whiffed when he signed Al to the contract with an opt out a few years ago?Ainge isn't unlucky here, this is just a GM whiff. He either misread Horford's market or missed the opportunity to maximize the value of the Horford asset by failing to recognize that Horford, like Kyrie, wasn't staying in Boston. Either way, that is on the GM.
Speaking of hot takes.Ainge isn't unlucky here, this is just a GM whiff. He either misread Horford's market or missed the opportunity to maximize the value of the Horford asset by failing to recognize that Horford, like Kyrie, wasn't staying in Boston. Either way, that is on the GM.
I just don't see how this can be construed as a good thing for the Celtics side. They can rebuild around Tatum and Brown while still having Horford on the team as a veteran clubhouse leader and quality all-around player. We're won't be bad enough to tank, so his presence won't hurt us from that perspective. And in a couple years, he'd be an expiring contract Danny could potentially use to get some additional help. We're losing that ability for nothing.You never want to lose a star player for nothing, especially one as good and as popular as Al, but this seems like a good thing for both sides. Horford is 33 and about to sign his last long-term contract. He should be looking for that last payday as well as a chance to win a championship. Given the ways things have played out this offseason that title probably wasn't coming in Boston. I can't begrudge a guy that wants to maximize that opportunity before his career is over. For Boston, it makes them worse next year, but it could be a blessing in disguise by not having to pay out in years 3 and 4. Now they can pivot and rebuild around Brown, Tatum and Smart. That extra cap space could be valuable for moves to put that next contender together.
Gordon Hayward’s ankle exploding five minutes into his Celtics’ career is the definition of bad luck. Davis being recruited by LeBron while still in New Orleans was also bad luck that he couldn’t control.Ainge isn't unlucky here, this is just a GM whiff. He either misread Horford's market or missed the opportunity to maximize the value of the Horford asset by failing to recognize that Horford, like Kyrie, wasn't staying in Boston. Either way, that is on the GM.
Angie didn't have a team option on Al, it was Al's option. Danny has no control over what Al did with it, and he couldn't trade him unless he opted into the contract. How should Danny have played this Horford situation then?Ainge isn't unlucky here, this is just a GM whiff. He either misread Horford's market or missed the opportunity to maximize the value of the Horford asset by failing to recognize that Horford, like Kyrie, wasn't staying in Boston. Either way, that is on the GM.
I don't see how anyone can defend his misread of Horford's market.what exactly was he supposed to do? How was he maximizing value for Horford? Trade him last February (which would have been insane)?
Foreseen all of this and played it differently when he signed him.Angie didn't have a team option on Al, it was Al's option. Danny has no control over what Al did with it, and he couldn't trade him unless he opted into the contract. How should Danny have played this Horford situation then?