A Healthy and Effective Defensive Line
- Thread starter IdiotKicker
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Can you comment on the Pats personnel vis a vis who fits which alignment (4-3 vs 3-4) best?
Who, if anyone, is the best fit at DE in the 3-4?
Who is the best fit for DT, next to Vince, in a 3-4?
Can Chandler and/or Nink handle an OLB spot in a 3-4?
What is the difference for a player between playing with a hand on the ground vs being upright at the snap?
How does Hightower's strong showing rushing the passer impact all of this?
Where does Easley fit best? Does he have the potential to fill mutliple roles a la Richard Seymour back in his Patriot days?
Who, if anyone, is the best fit at DE in the 3-4?
Who is the best fit for DT, next to Vince, in a 3-4?
Can Chandler and/or Nink handle an OLB spot in a 3-4?
What is the difference for a player between playing with a hand on the ground vs being upright at the snap?
How does Hightower's strong showing rushing the passer impact all of this?
Where does Easley fit best? Does he have the potential to fill mutliple roles a la Richard Seymour back in his Patriot days?
Saints Rest said:
My opinions:
#1 & #2 - I think 4-3 because when we go to 3-4 Vince is obviously the nose and Chandler Jones has been moved to a standing OLB. That leaves a selection of Vellano, Siliga & Chris Jones for the 2 ends. Physically they are close to the 300lbs that the 3-4 DE requires to occupy blockers, but while they have had stretches they arent a rotation that you can consistently count on to hold the point of attack. Furthermore, I dont think Nink is a perfect fit as a standing OLB and he is far too undersized to be a DE in this front. Whereas with the 4-3, Chandler Jones is now a DE and against the run I dont think he gets pushed around. Now Nink can play DE and is along-side Vince to help him out, and the other DT is between Vince and Jones which makes his job a little easier. To my eyes in the 4-3 it brings out more of the strengths of Nink, Jones. Our LB corp after Mayo, Hightower and Collins arent the greatest and the 4-3 also makes it a bit easier to move Nink to OLB if one of them goes down.
#3 - not a clue
#4 - I think both can handle it, and its probably Nink's best position but I think Jones is best as a DE with his hand on the ground
#5 - Not smart enough
#6 - I think the biggest thing is it gives Bill another blitzing option which is awesome, and allows them to do more delayed blitzes with him because he is adept at covering RBs out of the backfield and if the RB goes to chip Jones for instance then he can just head right on in once he identifies the chip.
#7 - I have to imagine Easley is best in the 4-3 It gives them more pass rush options because he can line up as a DT to pass rush which allows him to get a mismatch against a G or C. Then as a DE on 1st and 2nd down, the fact that he is slightly undersized is hidden a bit more with the 4 DL on the field which should theoretically allow him to stay on the field for more plays which will result in more pass rushing downs snaps he gets. However, this year with his comeback from the ACL, I think they just want to use him in sub packages as a pass rusher because I believe they are really limiting his snap count to 30 a game max (based on the 1st 2 games).
Saints Rest said:
So here are my thoughts on these:
1. Wilfork and Siliga are probably the only two guys who are really suited for a true NT or 1-technique DT that the Patriots have, and that may be pushing it with Siliga. Chris Jones, Joe Vellano, and Dominique Easley are best suited at this point to be 3-technique tackles in a 4-3 alignment, but Easley probably has the potential to be more of an NT if he can put on some strength and weight to control the line, but I don't think I would personally use him in a NT role, just because his athleticism allows you to do so much more with him. On the ends, Nink is probably truly best suited as a 3-4 LB, with Jones falling more in line as a 4-3 DE since he really has no coverage skills at all at this point.
2. They don't really have anyone in the mold of a Richard Seymour or Ty Warren right now in terms of being able to control the LoS on the end and let the OLBs get after the QB, unless you wanted to move guys like Easley or Vellano into this role. Easley I think might be able to handle it over time, but Vellano really doesn't have any ideal skill set for it. Jones and Nink are both not sour enough going against linemen to fulfill this role on a regular basis.
3. Siliga is probably your only other option, but I'd be curious to see if Easley could develop this skillset over time, though it would take away from being able to utilize his other strong suits.
4. Nink is really suited for a 3-4 OLB, but I don't know if Jones has the coverage skills to be able to be a regular contributor in this fashion. I see him more as a 4-3 DE, but he may be able to work in a 3-4 if used right. As we saw on a couple plays on Sunday, he is generally awful in coverage right now, which I don't really blame him for.
5. Effectively nothing, you can do all the same things out of each setup if you wanted to, it's more just about how you try to present the look to the offense. Generally, if you have your hand on the ground, you are coming for the QB more often, simply because it's more of a power position to get low and generate leverage, but it's more semantics than anything else in a lot of cases.
6. Hightower has looked much better in all aspects of the game this year, in particular pass coverage. He's had a couple miscues there, but is still much improved, and I think if those skills are for real, he is a prototypical 3-4 OLB as well, which complicates things a little because you now have two OLBs suited for that scheme and a DE suited for a 4-3. Keep in mind, that you can also use things like over and under fronts to move defensive linemen around in order to get them into places where they can be effective even without being in a traditional defensive alignment, so it's not the end of the world. If Belichick finds that he has two OLBs who can get after the passer and a DE in Jones, he can shift alignments to make things work and allow them to maximize their strong suits. This would be a good problem to have.
7. Easley seems to me to be a very strong candidate to be a 3-technique tackle, which you don't see in a 3-4. He could possibly fill a Richard Seymour role as well, but I think his skillset really lends itself to getting after the passer through the interior of the line because of his explosiveness. We haven't had a player like him on our DL in a long time. I'm very curious to see how BB uses him as the season goes on, because he has the athleticism to be huge difference-maker if healthy.
Who have we had like this ever? Not being Snarky....just curious who you equate him too.
BBs use of the 3-4 during the early 00s (and most of his run here) when most teams used the 4-3 is one major reason why I dont think we have ever had a DT like Easley.
I think examples exist of what he could be.
I equate Easley to Sapp or Randle (in an ideal world) And Ellis Johnson in a realistic one.
Seymour when he first came up could have been used as a 3-tech if we had employed one at that point. He developed into a great 3-4 DE, but I think he could have been tremendous in a 3-tech role if tilted that way early in his career as well. Even he still wasn't as athletic as Easley, so it'll be interesting to see what BB has in store for him.bakahump said:
I think they did use him inside in nickel packages. The Patriots pre-2011 mostly played 3-4 base and 4-2 nickel. FWIW, this year they've played with mostly three down lineman and one LB up at the line of scrimmage both in the base and in sub packages.Chuck Z said:
Super Nomario said:
Yeah I seem to recall seeing him inside a couple times, but I don't know how frequently they slid him in versus just moving in another DT instead.