53 Man Roster Thread: Ain't Done Yet

[Stitch01]

On the first point, you're oversimplifying.... for example, I think he's say offensive and defensive players regularly divide their time between those tasks and special teams, for example.  It's not 'just' about roster spots or about practice, it's about flexibility.  If you don't think he values that, ok..I just disagree.   Part of why I don't expect Nink to be the longsnapper all year is practice time---part is injury, and the biggest reason is he's likely not good enough a longsnapper.  I do think the Pats do the analysis, though, on each of those things rather than seeing them as unrebuttable assumptions.
 
Again on the draft notes, you're asking a different question than the one I posed.  I don't think there's a shadow of a doubt that Belichick values incremental value everywhere, including specialists (not that anyone questioned that in this thread).  I do think there's a question about whether Belichick would rather use that spot a different way if he lost very little value in doing so---which was, of course, where I started.

I'm sure BB evaluates this exactly as you said, I just think based on his past statements and roster usage it's very unlikely he comes to the conclusion that they don't need a dedicated long snapper (although the above point about the rule changes is a valid one). I'll see if I can find the press conference, I think he talked about someone (DeOssie?) being a full time long snapper and how it changed punt protection schemes or how teams started rushing the punter differently and forced the change

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4701225/belichick-goes-deep-with-snapper-talk

This is the one I was thinking of, he talked about it last year as well in the presser sn mentioned.

Couple possible thoughts on Aiken from my POV is 1) that they might want to see what they end up with on the ps at a couple of spots before deciding where to make another cut and Aiken is less likely to be claimed 2) he was iirc making more than the vet minimum, so might be a way to get him at a lower salary 3) they are willing to go with Nink for a week to avoid guaranteeing Aikens salary and possibly bring on a lower cost or better option later on, possibly via the practice squad

 

[j44thor]

I'm sure BB evaluates this exactly as you said, I just think based on his past statements and roster usage it's very unlikely he comes to the conclusion that they don't need a dedicated long snapper (although the above point about the rule changes is a valid one). I'll see if I can find the press conference, I think he talked about someone (DeOssie?) being a full time long snapper and how it changed punt protection schemes or how teams started rushing the punter differently and forced the change

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4701225/belichick-goes-deep-with-snapper-talk

This is the one I was thinking of, he talked about it last year as well in the presser sn mentioned.

 
What is interesting is that he talks about how the position changed because DeOssie could snap and block and previously the C just snapped and didn't block, which is exactly what the position has become since you can't line up over the long snapper.  As I mentioned perhaps he sees this position reverting to what it used to be.

 

[Stitch01]

Yes, I mentioned that and agree its an interesting thought. I don't think its happening though.

 

[j44thor]

Agree that it is doubtful nink ends up taking a single snap this season but perhaps they think they can find someone else that offers more versatility than aiken. If I'm not mistaken DeOssies son is the snapper for the giants and back up lb/special teamer, wouldn't be surprised to see them look for someone of similar caliber.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Agree that it is doubtful nink ends up taking a single snap this season but perhaps they think they can find someone else that offers more versatility than aiken. If I'm not mistaken DeOssies son is the snapper for the giants and back up lb/special teamer, wouldn't be surprised to see them look for someone of similar caliber.

 
Teams think more creatively about this than many fans do; just because we don't believe Nink will end up as the longsnapper (and most of us don't) doesn't mean otherwise.  I mean c'mon--I don't think anyone who has watched the Pats for the last decade could conclude that they are unwilling to challenge conventional wisdom.

 

[Stitch01]

Agree that it is doubtful nink ends up taking a single snap this season but perhaps they think they can find someone else that offers more versatility than aiken. If I'm not mistaken DeOssies son is the snapper for the giants and back up lb/special teamer, wouldn't be surprised to see them look for someone of similar caliber.

If they could find someone who could play on another special team unit or even in a Slater like role at another position in an emergency it would for sure add incremental value.

 

[Super Nomario]

Agree that it is doubtful nink ends up taking a single snap this season but perhaps they think they can find someone else that offers more versatility than aiken. If I'm not mistaken DeOssies son is the snapper for the giants and back up lb/special teamer, wouldn't be surprised to see them look for someone of similar caliber.

DeOssie got taken off LB / other ST duties four seasons ago: http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/08/giants_zak_deossie_makes_trans.html
 
As near as I can tell, no one who is working as a long snapper today has played any offense or defense in the last two years, and if they've played any other units on special teams it hasn't been very many snaps. So when you say "someone of similar caliber" who can long snap and do other things, I don't really think that player exists.

 

[j44thor]

DeOssie got taken off LB / other ST duties four seasons ago: http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2010/08/giants_zak_deossie_makes_trans.html
 
As near as I can tell, no one who is working as a long snapper today has played any offense or defense in the last two years, and if they've played any other units on special teams it hasn't been very many snaps. So when you say "someone of similar caliber" who can long snap and do other things, I don't really think that player exists.

Interesting, makes you wonder what NE is doing then risking a rather important position.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

It says something about this team that the most discussed roster position/cut is the Long Snapper



Or it says something about us.

 

[Super Nomario]

Interesting, makes you wonder what NE is doing then risking a rather important position.

Playing end-of-roster shenanigans, in all likelihood. They'll have a long snapper on the team before week 1; they're just hoping to sneak a guy through waivers in the meantime.
 

If they could find someone who could play on another special team unit or even in a Slater like role at another position in an emergency it would for sure add incremental value.

This comment gave me deja vu ... and I realized it's the same argument around Tebow's added utility because he could play personal protector on the punt team.
 
Long snapper has become a specialist position because it is a specialized skill - long snapping doesn't really pertain to any other skill on the football field. If a long snapper has other skills (and many did play other positions in high school or college), either he's good enough at those other skills that it makes sense for him to focus on those and forget about long-snapping, or he's not good enough at those other things and he should forget about them and focus on long-snapping. No one's talking about picking up a roster spot by teaching Chandler Jones or Jerod Mayo to long-snap; we're talking about depth or special teams roles. There are always multiple options for filling those roles - there are 40-ish non-specialist game day spots. You can have a backup OL learn TE, a bigger S learn LB, a guy who plays on two kicking units pick up a third, etc. It's a pretty bizarre set of circumstances where you end up deciding your LS is a better option to fill a particular role than someone with non-specialized skills.

 

[Stitch01]

Maybe Tebow can come back and long snap. BOOM two birds, one stone.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Guys, for some perspective New Orleans cut both their kickers on the roster.  Do you think the Saints will go into the season without a kicker?  Of course not.  Same thing regarding the Patriots and the long snapper.  They will have a LS specialist.

 

[dcmissle]

Do I have today right --

1. They can add players, both to 53-man and the PS.

2. Players cut are exposed to being claimed, in draft order.

-- or are there quirks to how this works not captured above?

Thanks

 

[Ferm Sheller]

When can they start filling out the PS?  Sometime today, right?

 

[amfox1]

Noon today.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Thanks.

 

[Super Nomario]

Noon today.

Ooh, any PS predictions?
 
WR Jeremy Gallon
RB Roy Finch
G Jon Halapio
TE TBD (cut elsewhere)
LB Steve Beauharnais
LB / FB Taylor McCuller
CB Daxton Swanson
S Kanorris Davis
DL Jerel Worthy (new rule / slot)
OL someone they cut from the current 53-man

 

[wutang112878]

I think Finch, Halapio, and Beauharnais are locks, especially Beauharnais.  Their inside LB depth is probably one of the worst depth positions on the team so I actually wouldnt be surprised to see them try to get 2 ILB types on the PS
 
 
Another question, which player off the 53 man goes for us to get a LS?  I'm assuming Baker or maybe Chung or Wilson

 

[Stitch01]

I'm guessing OL but think its dependent on how the practice squad plays out

 

[Saints Rest]

Ooh, any PS predictions?
 
WR Jeremy Gallon
RB Roy Finch
G Jon Halapio
TE TBD (cut elsewhere)
LB Steve Beauharnais
LB / FB Taylor McCuller
CB Daxton Swanson
S Kanorris Davis
DL Jerel Worthy (new rule / slot)
OL someone they cut from the current 53-man

My feeble memory tells me that the bulk of the first pass at thepractice squad are usually guys from other organizations

My guess is we see 3 prior cuts at most

 

[Super Nomario]

My feeble memory tells me that the bulk of the first pass at thepractice squad are usually guys from other organizations

My guess is we see 3 prior cuts at most

Last year it looks like the initial group was Ja'Gared Davis (from Houston), Kanorris Davis (in camp), Justin Green (in camp), Marcus Forston (in camp), Jeff Tarpinian (in camp), Quentin Sims (in camp), Jordan Devey (from Ravens), R.J. Dill (from Jaguars), Braxston Cave (from Cleveland), Josh Kline (in camp). That's more than 8, but some were on and then cut before week 1. I think the initial group is mostly internal cuts and the external guys come a little later. I guess it depends on how many guys get claimed; they may not sneak all these guys through waivers.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Ooh, any PS predictions?
 
WR Jeremy Gallon
RB Roy Finch
G Jon Halapio
TE TBD (cut elsewhere)
LB Steve Beauharnais
LB / FB Taylor McCuller
CB Daxton Swanson
S Kanorris Davis
DL Jerel Worthy (new rule / slot)
OL someone they cut from the current 53-man

Knowing how teams are infatuated with gaining information about their upcoming opponent as well as "The Patriot Way" I'm guessing at least one of these guys, possibly more, are claimed by teams we are playing in the first couple weeks of the season.

 

[bankshot1]

Knowing how teams are infatuated with gaining information about their upcoming opponent as well as "The Patriot Way" I'm guessing at least one of these guys, possibly more, are claimed by teams we are playing in the first couple weeks of the season.

If a PS guy gets claimed, don't they have to be placed on the claiming team's 53-roster for a minimum 3-games(or paid for 3 games?) Or am I confusing the procedure?

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

The annual roster "age" study is out, via Philly.com. Patriots are remarkably consistent, staying at 11th youngest in the league.
 
Not a good new for the rest of the AFC teams -- BB has stocked this team with not only the most talented players but also one of the youngest (and woe to the Raiders and the Giants -- ouch).
 

 

"The difference between the Rams and Raiders is only 1.91 years. Big whoop."
 
While 1.91 years may not be a big difference between two individual players, keep in mind that these are the average ages of 53 players per team.
 
1.91 years on average * 53 players = A difference of about 101 total years between the Rams and Raiders.
 
In other words, if you took the 20 oldest Raiders and shaved 5 years off each of their ages, their roster still wouldn't be as young as the Rams.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/eagles/Ranking-NFL-teams-by-age-Rams-youngest-team-in-the-NFL-Raiders-oldest.html#dx0qE9C53lCfIgKt.99

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If a PS guy gets claimed, don't they have to be placed on the claiming team's 53-roster for a minimum 3-games(or paid for 3 games?) Or am I confusing the procedure?

There is no minimum time a claimed player must remain active however they are guaranteed a minimum of 3 game checks. When you start talking 10th OL or 8th DL so many of these players are interchangeable really based on an opinion and/or prior relationship with a coach/asst coach. I feel that most teams are looking to upgrade those final spots anyway and naturally would value a Patriot cut higher than say a typical Raider cut.......if they have the Pats in the upcoming week all the better I'm guessing.

Who was it that signed a former Patriot WR in the week prior to the playoffs despite him not playing at all last year?

 

[rslm]

Who was it that signed a former Patriot WR in the week prior to the playoffs despite him not playing at all last year?[/quote]

Deion Branch -- Indianapolis Colts just prior to their playoff game against the Patriots last January.

 

[amfox1]

Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyedNESN  1m
Hearing that Jeremy Gallon won't sign to the Patriots' practice squad.
 


Doug Kyed ‏@DougKyedNESN  17m
LB Ja'Gared Davis is signing to the Patriots practice squad, according to a source.



 

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Couldn't care less about Gallon. Super news on one of the Davis'.

 

[amfox1]

Mark Daniels ‏@MarkDanielsPJ  3m
Jonas Gray is signing with the Patriots practice squad, per source.

 

[Corsi]

 

Ian Rapoport ‏@RapSheet  1m
Some claims: TJ Graham was claimed by the #Titans. DT Kelcy Quarles claimed by Patriots
 

 

[Ed Hillel]

Love the Quarles claim. He looked like a real high-energy depth guy to me, and I was surprised the Giants let him go. Hope he sticks.

 

[Phil Plantier]

 
DT Kelcy Quarles claimed by Patriots

 
Damn right I'm going to gloat after my wild-ass guess gets added to the roster.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Damn right I'm going to gloat after my wild-ass guess gets added to the roster.

The Giants broadcasting team was raving about him, and they were pretty sure he'd stick at the bottom of the roster. Said he had stood out like that all pre-season.

 

[dcmissle]

Coughlin and Francesa start whining in 3, 2, 1 ...

 

[mabrowndog]

If you're going to have bloodlines, might as well have gushing torrents of awesome coursing through your veins.
 
Karen Guregian ‏@kguregian 1m
Kelcy Quarles has a Patriots connection. His uncle is Ben Coates

 

[bankshot1]

The Giants broadcasting team was raving about him, and they were pretty sure he'd stick at the bottom of the roster. Said he had stood out like that all pre-season.

Yup. I was surprised to see the Pats get this guy. Carl Banks was splooging about the guy's play during pre-season.

 

[Stitch01]

Coughlin and Francesa start whining in 3, 2, 1 ...

Coughlin didn't whine after the Ballard incident, why would you think he'd whine about a routine claim?

 

[dcmissle]

Coughlin didn't whine after the Ballard incident, why would you think he'd whine about a routine claim?

Levity. I just miss that son-of-a-bitch! Coughlin face. He's a good guy.

 

[mabrowndog]

kelcy quarles ‏@KelcyQuarles 4m
Wanna thank the New York Giants for opportunity. Now it's time to get to work the Patriots

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Love the Quarles claim. He looked like a real high-energy depth guy to me, and I was surprised the Giants let him go. Hope he sticks.

I know nothing about this guy. Is he a high motor, penetrating rush type of guy?

 

[lambeau]

When Clowney was loafing last year, Quarles looked better. Fairly explove pass rusher, "Reminds me a little of Warren Sapp; bit of a belly, but he can move"--Spurrier. Exciting pick-up.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000288780/article/steve-spurrier-compares-kelcy-quarles-to-warren-sapp

 

[Ferm Sheller]

I'm trying to think of a Pats player who's had a last name beginning with Q.  Have there been any?

 

[amfox1]

Mike Reiss ‏@MikeReiss  4m
Patriots announce the release of LB Chris White, a core special teamer.
 
Mike Reiss ‏@MikeReiss  3m
Team also claims DL Bruce Gaston on waivers from the Cardinals, in addition to previously reported DL Kelcy Quarles (Giants).

 

[Super Nomario]

 
Mike Reiss ‏@MikeReiss  4m
Patriots announce the release of LB Chris White, a core special teamer.
 
Mike Reiss ‏@MikeReiss  3m
Team also claims DL Bruce Gaston on waivers from the Cardinals, in addition to previously reported DL Kelcy Quarles (Giants).
 

Miguel's speculating on Twitter that two DTs in (making seven on the roster) points to Siliga or Chris Jones winding up on IR-DTR.

 

[mabrowndog]

I'm trying to think of a Pats player who's had a last name beginning with Q.  Have there been any?

 
There was another Quarles (Cyhl), a DB out of Wake Forest, but he was only signed (twice) to the practice squad in 2012 and never saw any game action.

 

[mabrowndog]

Jeff Howe ‏@jeffphowe 4m
Steve Beauharnais was released with an injury settlement, which clarifies the surprising transaction. He cleared waivers and is PS-eligible.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
There was another Quarles (Cyhl), a DB out of Wake Forest, but he was only signed (twice) to the practice squad in 2012 and never saw any game action.

Hmmm...good research. I don't recall him at all.

 

[Stitch01]

Miguel's speculating on Twitter that two DTs in (making seven on the roster) points to Siliga or Chris Jones winding up on IR-DTR.

Particularly if it's Jones I'd much prefer straight IR or waived/injured (for Jones)

 

[lambeau]

I wondered why Quarles wasn't drafted--brought to NYC by ESPN two weeks before draft for a photo shoot and got in a bar brawl. Had been projected Rd 2-4. Cleared of charges a few days before draft.
http://gridirongrit.com/2014/04/report-victor-hampton-kelcy-quarles-wanted-by-nypd/

 

[RedOctober3829]

Erik Scalavino ‏@E_Scal 1m
Former #Patriots LS Charley Hughlett is the team's new long snapper.