2024 Red Sox HOF Class: Dustin Pedroia, Jonathan Papelbon, Trot Nixon
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Ok, I'll be that guy. Pedroia and Papelbon sure. Pedroia is underrated as an easy top 10 all time Red Sox (higher career bWAR (with Boston) than Fisk, Nomar, Rice, Mookie, Manny and many others that people instantly mention when talking about greatest Red Sox ever). Papelbon is 4th all time in games played (among pitchers), and has almost twice as many saves (I know, I know) than any other reliever we've had. They were both big parts of Championship teams too.
But Trot? Now we're just rewarding mediocrity. He was not a big part of the 2004 season due to his injury (one of my favourite nuggest of info about him is that he only had TWO hits against lefties all season - sure he only played in 48 games, and was usally platooned off the lineup against lefties, but still as close to an automatic out - OPS 321 - as you'll ever find). And he was SO bad defensively. He got an undeserved good fielding reputation because he was always diving to make catches, because he was just slow and took bad routes. Those same catches JD Drew would be camped under and make look routine.
I don't know who else is in it, so maybe there's a very low bar and he clears it, and I should be happy for him, but I feel like there are probably more deserving guys who have been excluded.
But Trot? Now we're just rewarding mediocrity. He was not a big part of the 2004 season due to his injury (one of my favourite nuggest of info about him is that he only had TWO hits against lefties all season - sure he only played in 48 games, and was usally platooned off the lineup against lefties, but still as close to an automatic out - OPS 321 - as you'll ever find). And he was SO bad defensively. He got an undeserved good fielding reputation because he was always diving to make catches, because he was just slow and took bad routes. Those same catches JD Drew would be camped under and make look routine.
I don't know who else is in it, so maybe there's a very low bar and he clears it, and I should be happy for him, but I feel like there are probably more deserving guys who have been excluded.
Trot never lived up to what we hoped he would be but his OPS vs. Clemens (in 16 AB) was .984; and I recall him hitting a very satisfying ninth inning home run vs. the Rocket.
I think team-level Hall of Fames should be fine with commemorating "players that succeeded and were just really, really popular". Fame is, after all, how big a part of the zeitgeist someone is. If you spent any time around a teenage girl in Massachusetts circa-2001, you'd know how big a part of the fandom was Trot Nixon.
He represents such a fun era of the team and that deserves to be remembered and honored.
Pretty sure you're taking this way too seriously. The Red Sox HOF isn't about being the best player or having the highest WAR, it's about being a good, and perhaps more importantly, popular Red Sox player. Looking at the list of inductees, it seems like pretty much anyone who played more than 6-8 years in Boston has made the cut. Trot Nixon checks all of those boxes. It's arguable he's overdue to be inducted based on some guys who had much lesser/shorter Red Sox careers (though some excelled with other clubs also) who are already in the Sox HOF: Mike Lowell, Curt Schilling, Ellis Burks, Marty Barrett, Rich Gedman, Rick Burleson, Bob Stanley, Tommy Harper. The full list of inductees is here.
Why isn't Ellsbury in yet and Benintendi better be getting in then 3 years post-retirement.
Benintendi won't be getting in until at least after he retires (if ever), but I would not be surprised to see an Ellsbury induction in the near future.
I still think Pedroia has a shot at the big Hall of Fame. His career was cut short by an injury that wasn't his fault, but before that he was a great defender, really good hitter, and inner circle Hall of Fame personality.
If one of the metrics for Red Sox Hall of Fame entry were "number of T-shirts spotted on Jersey Street with this players name on it" I would be okay with it. It's just a good vibes thing, and I think there is nothing wrong with that. Some things should just be about fun.
Thinking about Trot brings back a lot of great memories and I love that.
Thinking about Trot brings back a lot of great memories and I love that.
Ellsbury beats Nixon in most measures as a Red Sox OF. In the 8 points he loses to OPS+ (from power/HR), he gains in rings, ROY finish, MVP finish, and is way ahead in speed/SB/range. I think he's ahead in t-shirt sales too but can't prove it.
I'd take Trot Nixon for the Red Sox Hall of Fame over 2010 inductee Don Zimmer pretty much every day from now until forever.
(Are we sure the Zimmer thing was not a joke?)
(Are we sure the Zimmer thing was not a joke?)
Trot played 2 more years than Ellsbury and only had 1 season where he didn't play 100+ games. Ellsbury only played 4 season with 100+ games. Benintendi's Sox career was only 5 years (three 100+ games). Like others mentioned, the team HoF is more than stats. Trot was a lock in RF for his whole Red Sox career.
But I'll just add if you are discrediting Trot for NOT being a big part of 2004, he should get credit for having the 2nd highest OPS (between Manny & Papi) on a team that was a stone's throw from winning in 2003. The narrative on Trot would be totally different if that team won it. (So would Nomar's narrative.)
You can't tell the Red Sox story in my lifetime without mentioning the Gerbil, even if it's a negative reflection.
Very happy for Pedey
I can see the discussion on Trot, but I'm kind of whatever either way
Paps, I feel a bit conflicted. Happy when he was here, but really didn't care after he was gone. But he had a (financial) goal and stuck with it, so I can't blame him for that either.
I can see the discussion on Trot, but I'm kind of whatever either way
Paps, I feel a bit conflicted. Happy when he was here, but really didn't care after he was gone. But he had a (financial) goal and stuck with it, so I can't blame him for that either.
Trot's 2003 season was pretty fire even though he only had 513 PAs: .306 avg, 28 HR, .975 OPS. On any other year that would be remembered more but I suspect it was overshadowed by Ortiz's emergence as a slugger and Mueller's batting title.
I think the injury really cut into his chances but I always maintained that he had a case if he could remain productive through his mid 30’s (fuck you, machado). His career numbers and defensive reputation looked a lot like Roberto Alomar’s at one point.
This is a good point.
If you asked me to close my eyes and name the 10 players that should be in the Red Sox HOF whom I've seen play personally, shading out the most recent, I don't think Trot Nixon would be in that group. Maybe he's in a group of 20.
That said, he's not an outrageous choice in any sense.
It would be an interesting exercise though without stats: Boggs, Evans, Clemens, Garciaparra, Vaughn, Pedro, Manny, Ortiz, Pedroia, Betts.
Then: Rice, Wakefield, Beckett, Youkilis, Lowe, Lowell, Valentin, Hurst, Greenwell, Burks.
Then: Varitek, Naehring, OLearly. . .I probably put Trot in here somewhere.
(Yaz and Eckersley I have little memory of as a kid)
Nixon ranks 33rd all time in bWAR for the Sox. He’s in the range of guys like Greenwell, Varitek, and Vaughn; a little ahead of Ellsbury, Burks, JBJ, Damon…
I was in grad school at UNC when the Sox drafted Trot #7 out of high school in ‘93. He was committed to go to NC State, I think for football, and when he signed with the Sox I was as thrilled to hurt the Wolfpack as for his potential in baseball.
What I remember most about those early days was Hope. Those were some pretty meh years for the Sox, and Trot represented hope for a better future.
Turns out to have been accurate, as he was a key guy on the ‘99 playoff team, and really one of the bridge guys from those meh 90s Sox to the championship teams of the new millennium.
So yeah, definitely sign me up for Trot in the Sox HOF.
What I remember most about those early days was Hope. Those were some pretty meh years for the Sox, and Trot represented hope for a better future.
Turns out to have been accurate, as he was a key guy on the ‘99 playoff team, and really one of the bridge guys from those meh 90s Sox to the championship teams of the new millennium.
So yeah, definitely sign me up for Trot in the Sox HOF.
Trot was a solid player. My four memories:
Throwing the bat at the Tampa goon on the hill who was drilling guys.(oops it slipped)
Dominating Clemens repeatedly including the ridiculous Clemens Pedro game at the Bronx where he smoked a no doubter in the 9th- still one of the best regular season games you’ll ever see.
Big hit off Flash Gordon in the 8th to put Roberts on third - he would eventually score on the Tek sac fly (hope my memory is right)
Partying with Sox fans in the stands after game 7 ALCS in 04- may have even brought champagne in the stands with him.
Throwing the bat at the Tampa goon on the hill who was drilling guys.(oops it slipped)
Dominating Clemens repeatedly including the ridiculous Clemens Pedro game at the Bronx where he smoked a no doubter in the 9th- still one of the best regular season games you’ll ever see.
Big hit off Flash Gordon in the 8th to put Roberts on third - he would eventually score on the Tek sac fly (hope my memory is right)
Partying with Sox fans in the stands after game 7 ALCS in 04- may have even brought champagne in the stands with him.
All very deserving.
Trot should be in for his 2003 ALDS 10th inning walk off HR alone.I was at that game (and G4) and the place was nuts.
Trot should be in for his 2003 ALDS 10th inning walk off HR alone.I was at that game (and G4) and the place was nuts.
Woah woah woah - lesser? My 8-12 year old self remembers Mr. Barrett being the best dang 2B around.
Of course, striving for that level of “excellence” is maybe part of what made me one of the most mediocre second baseman in Pelham (NH) high school history.
fun fact: according to wiki, MB successfully pulled off the hidden ball trick three times, including twice in July 1985!
Trot hit a bomb off Clemens in the lamentable 2003 ALCS Game 7 as well. He OPS’ed 1.061 in that series.
In the 99 game where he homers off Clemens, Roger had yelled at him in the first inning for griping about a strike 3 call. Trot shut his mouth and took care of business in the 9th.
Are you questioning whether Dwight Evans is an obvious/deserving choice for the Red Sox Hall of Fame? Or do you think RR omitted him (he's the second name on the list)?
And smoked that 3-0 pitch with the bases loaded in Game 4 of the World Series.
Nixon should be in based solely on May 28, 2000 and Game 4 in the 2004 World Series.
Everything else is gravy boats.
Everything else is gravy boats.
Was just coming here to add this. I was at that game and the place was insane. First playoff game I ever attended. It was around that time that I joined this board (hence the name).
I was also at this game. My brother and I drove down from the Toronto area for it. It was my first playoff game too. It was the best atmosphere of any game I've ever attended. I've watched the replay of Trot's bomb so many times I have Jon Miller's call engrained in my memory.
After they came back in game 4 and went on to win game 5, I really thought that was going to be the year.