2024 Playoffs Eastern Conference First Round: (2) New York Knicks vs (7) Philadelphia 76ers - The Danse Macabre
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Without Robinson, the Knicks have a real size problem. They were already small, but they now only have one player over 6’8” in their rotation and, on the other side of things, 4 of their top 6 players are 6’4” or smaller. That’s particularly a problem for them because Hartenstein has never been more than a 25 mpg player. They are either going to need to stretch his minutes a ton or defend Embiid with someone who gives up half a foot for 15 minutes a game.
Embiid knew after what happened in Game 2 there was no way the refs would eject him unless he killed someone. So he played physical and dominated.
Is yanking the opposing center's ankles while he's trying to jump part of the domination?
Embiid certainly had a monster game statwise, when he was actually playing basketball he did it really really well. I'll remember his performance more for the Draymond / young Grayson Allen moves, though.
Clearly still stuck on Embiid's unique approach to the game tonight - I didn't see this one live, it may be up there with the most moving-y screen that wasn't called I've ever seen (maybe Bam has equaled it), honestly it's probably called a flagrant if it's a role player. Just a literal hockey check:
View: https://twitter.com/DanStrafford/status/1783680416219619646
View: https://twitter.com/DanStrafford/status/1783680416219619646
Embid had a dominating game... his cheap shots and favorable whistle don't explain going 13 for 19 (5 for 7 form 3).
It didn't really kick in until he was hammered on 3 consecutive possessions with no whistle with the last one ignored by Zarba putting him on life tilt prior to the ankle tackle. One the refs woke the sleeping giant he wasn't going to lose this game.
Embiid is easily good enough to dominate either way, but his cheap shots did at least tangentially help his numbers. He intentionally contributed to an opposing center going out with an injury, one who was playing pretty well and would have bothered Embiid at least a little. Embiid's other non-basketball plays were also against his primary defenders (although they were probably not that impactful), nut shots to Hartenstein and Mitchell, and the above blind-side takeout block to Anunoby.
If Mitchell Robinson had yanked Embiid's surgically repaired knee (without getting ejected somehow), Embiid left the the game with knee problems, and Robinson went on to have 10 offensive rebounds, would we say his cheap shot didn't explain the result? Yes, we know Robinson doesn't hold a candle to Embiid, but his high-level offensive rebounding is important to the Knicks.
Guy played with a paralyzed face, got cracked with several non-calls in a row then turned around and had the game of his life down 0-2 on the biggest stage. Celtics fans criticizing that 24 hours after watching Jrue’s gutless performance a week after signing his new contract and giving him a pass is legend. Wish we had toughness like that on this roster.
There's a pretty big gap between toughness and the blatant cheap shots that must people here are criticizing him for. I have no idea what pulling down Robinson midair has to do with Jrue's no show unless we want him to take out Bam's knees in game three.
The guy could have been ejected multiple different times, would that still count as legendary toughness? What level of dirty play is too much to you?
I have been lower on Embiid than many over the last few years---he has (in the past not so much today) been out of shape; he's struggled with intensity; and he's a bit of an up-and-down personality from what I see.
I gotta say---this year's version is incredibly impactful on the court and has really won me over with his intensity and consistency. He's played through a lot since coming back.
I didn't see the dirty plays and find it easy to believe he did them...but the rest of the package this year I really am impressed by
I gotta say---this year's version is incredibly impactful on the court and has really won me over with his intensity and consistency. He's played through a lot since coming back.
I didn't see the dirty plays and find it easy to believe he did them...but the rest of the package this year I really am impressed by
I just watched the Embiid flagrant and what I saw was him trying to grab Robinson near the waist, presumably to prevent him from elevating on his shot, not getting a grip, and his hands sliding down to the lower leg.
That’s unquestionably a dangerous play and a flagrant foul. I’m not defending it. But there’s a big difference between what I saw and the descriptions here of him grabbing an ankle and yanking a player out of the air. I don’t see any intent to cause injury in the play, just a dumb and dangerous play that should never have been attempted. (The backing up check above strikes me as much worse because there is no justification for that beyond wanting to deck an opposing player. That should also have been deemed a Flagrant 1 and I could see a case for it as a 2.)
That’s unquestionably a dangerous play and a flagrant foul. I’m not defending it. But there’s a big difference between what I saw and the descriptions here of him grabbing an ankle and yanking a player out of the air. I don’t see any intent to cause injury in the play, just a dumb and dangerous play that should never have been attempted. (The backing up check above strikes me as much worse because there is no justification for that beyond wanting to deck an opposing player. That should also have been deemed a Flagrant 1 and I could see a case for it as a 2.)
Multiple times? Lol. I’ve read how he tackled him in the air…when Robinson was on the ground. The bias people have sometimes is pretty wild.
I would say this is a Post of the Year candidate but you have so many other fantastic contributions here it sadly doesn’t even make the Top-20.
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To me the wrapping his leg around him initially is perhaps the worst of it, because that is not at all a basketball play or move in any way. It's a flagrant and a bit dirty, but agree it is not grabbing him out of the air---he's trying to foul immediatley because he knows a dunk is coming otherwise.
It was totally out of frustration too from the previous 3 trips up the floor. When he was running back jawing at Zarba after the 3rd one you could tell something not good was about to happen to the soon-to-be volcano eruption. Someone was getting hit hard.
Is one of the trips that you're talking about where he got "whacked", the 3 pointer which he airballed because he attempted to do a rip through and then stomped his feet because he didn't get a call? Because unless you have a camera angle that I haven't seen, there was no way that's getting hit hard
I think that clearly should have been a flagrant 2, but two flagrant 1's also = ejection. He could have had gotten a flagrant on two other plays on top of that one. I think it's pretty easy to see how he could have been ejected in multiple different ways.
My question still stands, would him being ejected for his play - which he would have been if he were not a star player in the playoffs - still mean he showed toughness? And is dirty play just besides the point here, which is that he dominated by any means necessary
No the play prior was the hard hit. That no-call is what sent him over the edge. I’m all for the officials letting little things so but they are now simply ignoring actual fouls and there is no consistency as to what they are calling and what they aren’t. This is a problem with some crews right now and def with Zarba….and I rarely pay attention to officiating but this has been complete bonkers at times.
Ok...but that no-call looked to be the right call? The camera angle I saw it looks like he loses control and flails hoping to grift a call, I didn't see Robinson touch him
I’m
It was a classic rip through when Robinson had his hand caught in the cookie jar. This has been an auto-whistle for years….until now, except sometimes, but we never know when.
I'm not CFB_Rules, so I don't really know how reffing works, but I don't think that just because a referee blows a couple of calls, the upset player gets a free pass to Flagrant someone. Even Parish got suspended for a subsequent game (that they were definitely going to lose anyway) when he justifiably clocked Laimbeer.
Did he actually make contact with Robinson? It certainly doesn't look like it, this isn't the phantom tag rule. It's not just a foul because he ripped the ball near a defender.
And agreed with the above post - perceived non-calls is an absurd justification for injuring guys
I agree which is why he got the deserved Flagrant-1. If he would up and swung at Robinsons head as Parish did then he would have been suspended without a free pass for it.
It looked like the classic rip-through where the defender gets his hand caught which was only one of the plays that got him going. Of course, Embiid wasn’t trying to injury a guy by grabbing his ankle. It was a frustration foul and a non-basketball play but everytime there is an aggressive play it isn’t that the player is trying to injure a guy. Send a message, yes. Injure, pretty much zero chance that was Embiid’s intent. Guys are out there competing.
It's one thing to deliver a hard foul -- but to do by grabbing a guy's legs while lying on the ground? To me, nothing good can come from that. You're not delivering a message, you're petulantly lashing out because you're not getting the calls you want -- made worse because it's a dangerous non-basketball move. That, and the ass-jackknife bullshit play should have gotten him tossed. Embiid is a legitimately great player who had a legitimate gripe -- but he's also a childish complainer who lashes out when he's pissed.
Nobody argues his skill. You're arguing about his ability to control the game. It doesn't change that he's a shitty human for the way he plays. You want that on your team, great.
You are judging a human being on how he plays a game after being frustrated? I guess I wish Jrue was a little bit of a worse human being on Wednesday night then. Not sure how any of what occurs during 48 minutes has to do with your worth to society but to each their own.
So, this is where I disagree with you.
I don’t think Embiid was trying to hurt Robinson. I also can’t call it a “competitive” play. It seemed like a childish lash out to me.
“Oh you’re not going to call fouls? Well I’ll just grab this dudes legs and not let him jump. Let’s see if you’ll call that”
And, let’s be honest, those childish lash outs are how players get injured. (I’ll be honest, I think there are incredibly few players who have actually TRIED to injure someone in the flow of a game like that. Draymond is one)
I think it’s also worth including that Joel’s official explanation was “I was trying to hold him up so he wouldn’t fall on me”. I don’t know but if he really thought that he was just committing a competitive foul, I’d bet a decent amount of money he would have said that instead of lied about his intent
Pulling someone‘s leg down while they are jumping is dirty af and very dangerous. It is no surprise it resulted in injury. Since the league is apparently in full American Gladiators mode at this point, Knicks imo should police it themselves and call The Code Red.
I don’t disagree. The play was a frustration foul from the prior plays as you could see he was frustrated with Zarba, whether it was or wasn’t a foul on the prior plays he was still clearly losing composure. Of course he wasn’t trying to stop Robinson from landing on him but that’s what he has to say.
He probably wasn't intentionally trying to injure Robinson's ankle, but he was intentionally trying to pull Robinson's ankle down while he was jumping... which predictably resulted in him hurting his ankle. Recklessness rather than maliciousness isn't really mitigating.
Again, if Robinson did this very same thing to the recently hurt Embiid, and Embiid re-injured his repaired knee and left the game, it would be an earthquake league-wide, rightfully so. Not to mention if Robinson had 3-4 other weird non-basketball plays in the same game. Nobody would defend Robinson, I'm guessing including yourself.
This is a lot of words to say that
1. Joel Embiid is playing really hard, with a lot of mental toughness, and that is good for him and his team. I wish the Celtics would show that more.
2. The ankle grab is inexcusable and there is no way to justify it as a basketball play, unless you enjoy being a contrarian on message boards. He should have been ejected for it, because the league shouldn't let players make dangerous non-basketball plays with no repercussions.
Admitting 1 doesn't invalidate 2, and vice versa. I get that thinking multiple things is hard, and that everyone is on tilt from the Miami game, but....yeah
1. Joel Embiid is playing really hard, with a lot of mental toughness, and that is good for him and his team. I wish the Celtics would show that more.
2. The ankle grab is inexcusable and there is no way to justify it as a basketball play, unless you enjoy being a contrarian on message boards. He should have been ejected for it, because the league shouldn't let players make dangerous non-basketball plays with no repercussions.
Admitting 1 doesn't invalidate 2, and vice versa. I get that thinking multiple things is hard, and that everyone is on tilt from the Miami game, but....yeah
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1cdkjxu/joel_embiid_has_more_flagrant_fouls_than_draymond/?share_id=ORtby-2lUCUjFuDK2oDlE&utm_content=3&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1
Draymond: 21 flagrants in 970 total games played (15 flagrants in 813 regular season games played and 6 flagrants in 157 playoff games played)
**Embiid:**23 flagrants in 489 games played (16 flagrants in 433 regular season games and 7 flagrants in 56 playoff games)
Also has more flagrants in the playoffs than Draymond in almost 3x less games.
Draymond: 21 flagrants in 970 total games played (15 flagrants in 813 regular season games played and 6 flagrants in 157 playoff games played)
**Embiid:**23 flagrants in 489 games played (16 flagrants in 433 regular season games and 7 flagrants in 56 playoff games)
Also has more flagrants in the playoffs than Draymond in almost 3x less games.
Was it the false equivalencies, the red herrings, the cowardly blanket statements of "everybody be doing ___" without naming or quoting anyone, or the Barstool-level narratives about "toughness" in a game where his hero injured an opponent with dirty plays that did it for you? I'm torn, myself.
Source: Sixers forward Kelly Oubre’s Lamborghini was involved in car crash after Game 2
Tsunami Papi must be hard to insure given all of his "accidents" (recall he missed time last fall afterfalling victim to a hit and run crashing his mountainbike). In any event, I saw something that Philly PD internal affairs is now involved to see if Oubre received special treatment following the accident.
Tsunami Papi must be hard to insure given all of his "accidents" (recall he missed time last fall after
I just find it funny that he apparently alternates between bike and lambo, depending on his mood. A fascinating man.
Indeed he is. I get the appeal of him as a player but these red flags keep popping up with him at all his different stops. Its also why Philly was able to nab him so late - he is talented but also the sort who seems to lose focus precisely when you want players to go into tunnel vision.
This may get worse
Bracket sure is interesting - Milwaukee in deep trouble vs Indiana, and Sixers/Knicks looking like it could be a long tough fight (unless Embiid gets hurt).
Winner of this series feels like a really good shot at ECF
Winner of this series feels like a really good shot at ECF
Yes, really feels like these are the best 2 non-Cs teams given Milwaukee's injury situation.