2024 Playoffs Eastern Conference First Round: (2) New York Knicks vs (7) Philadelphia 76ers - The Danse Macabre

Auger34

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I don't think that @JakeRae was wrong to say Philly is the better team, nor was @the moops wrong to note that Philly was something like 31-8 with Embiid this year.

However, with Embiid, there's ALWAYS something. Something always goes wrong. I don't pretend to fully know why, but it seems to be in the same class of question as "why does X player always get injured, even when the injuries are in seemingly unrelated parts of the body?"
In the case of Embiid, we do have somewhat of an idea of why he always gets injured right? He's huge and he's literally ALWAYS flopping or falling down. (I mean, Chris Herring wrote an article titled "Why is Joel Embiid always on the ground?")

When you're that big and you're always falling down/in scrums, it's bound to lead to injury
 

tims4wins

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jon abbey

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I don't think that @JakeRae was wrong to say Philly is the better team, nor was @the moops wrong to note that Philly was something like 31-8 with Embiid this year.
I see no reason to debate the former, but it is worth noting that now NY is 5-1 against PHI this year (3-0 in games where both Embiid and Maxey play) and NY is now 22-3 when Anunoby plays (21-2 when both he and Brunson play). And they're the ones missing an All-Star currently in Randle. Embiid is certainly hurt but also he is averaging 32 points and 38 minutes in the two games so far.
 

jon abbey

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Also Embiid's W/L record this year breaks down to 0-3 vs NY and 31-7 against the rest of the league. :)
 

lovegtm

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I see no reason to debate the former, but it is worth noting that now NY is 5-1 against PHI this year (3-0 in games where both Embiid and Maxey play) and NY is now 22-3 when Anunoby plays (21-2 when both he and Brunson play). And they're the ones missing an All-Star currently in Randle. Embiid is certainly hurt but also he is averaging 32 points and 38 minutes in the two games so far.
I think the Knicks are very good, and I'm really happy for their fans that they get to finally enjoy a real, serious team. They are fun to watch, and almost appointment viewing at this point.
 

Euclis20

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Post of the thread.

From my vantage point, Maxey got fouled..the refs missed the call. However, I can't be too broken up about it when the Sixers GM whines about everything, their coach is basically doing performance art on the sideline and they have two of the biggest grifters in the NBA in their starting line up
Maxey was fouled, but the first foul on the inbounds play was Maxey giving a strong 2 handed shove to Hart trying to break free:

View: https://twitter.com/ShamelLakin/status/1782774300442763342


Complaining about the refs (to the extent that you're filing BS grievances) is the kind of thing that losers do. The Sixers org, and Nurse (title aside), are absolutely losers.
 

jon abbey

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Philly was tackling Brunson the whole game too, and even more in the 4th quarter in the backcourt when they were trying to come back. I was stunned in real time like everyone else when play kept going at the end but examining it later, I don't think the refs did anything especially wrong, they just let the players decide the game.
 

lovegtm

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Philly was tackling Brunson the whole game too, and even more in the 4th quarter in the backcourt when they were trying to come back. I was stunned in real time like everyone else when play kept going at the end but examining it later, I don't think the refs did anything especially wrong, they just let the players decide the game.
Yeah, some of Brunson's struggles are attributable to these muggings.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Regarding the bolded: you're correct, but the league is very, very clearly trying to move things closer to the letter of the rule. This affects replays, but also definitely affects marginal propensity to call something a foul, which has had a clear effect on scoring.

It sucks that it's not yet consistent, but I think they actually are being reasonably consistent in trying to dramatically shift the rulebook as it is called, in a short span of time.
The head of officiating was on Lowe Post and basically said "we didn't change any rules, we just tried to be more consistent in some specific application scenarios" or some other double-talk. So, they are getting to 'change' through application to specific situations (don't let offensive player push off on drive, call on offense if they veer out of their 'lane' during a drive, etc). Surely, that has also been true of what is 'marginal' contact.

My observation is that, as you say, they have shifted the overall level of contact allowed materially in a short period of time...and also that the consistency across crews and within a game has also gone down, which is understandable (change doesn't happen same time for all) and unfortunate
 

Cellar-Door

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A minor nitpick with Bodner (and a few others like Bontempts)..... the L2M doesn't actually say that Nurse should have gotten a timeout. Doesn't list it as an incorrect call, but as part of a correct no call, which I would (and I would guess the NBA would as well) interpret as a recognition that Nurse attempted to call TO, but not that it should have been granted. Minor detail, but probably an important one when recapping what the L2M actually says. if the NBA believed the timeout SHOULD have been granted, they would have listed it as an incorrect no call in all likelihood.
 

PedroKsBambino

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A minor nitpick with Bodner (and a few others like Bontempts)..... the L2M doesn't actually say that Nurse should have gotten a timeout. Doesn't list it as an incorrect call, but as part of a correct no call, which I would (and I would guess the NBA would as well) interpret as a recognition that Nurse attempted to call TO, but not that it should have been granted. Minor detail, but probably an important one when recapping what the L2M actually says. if the NBA believed the timeout SHOULD have been granted, they would have listed it as an incorrect no call in all likelihood.
The CNC is a reference to the lack of a foul call on the play (very clear from the explanation). No reason to believe an attempted timeout is a 'call' within the L2m definition. The statement in the L2M about the timeout includes all the conditions required for a timeout to be granted, so it seems clear that it should have been even from the persepctive of the league. What they are trying to clarify in the wording is that the official did not see it and that is why it wasn't granted--not that it was correct not to grant it. The word choice was intentional around that, I am confident.

I do not believe they have ever classified a non-granted timeout as an incorrect call as I do not think they consider it a 'call' within the L2M report. If you can cite one where that happened, ok, but otherwise above is not accurate.
 

Cellar-Door

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The CNC is a reference to the lack of a foul call on the play (very clear from the explanation). No reason to believe an attempted timeout is a 'call' within the L2m definition. The statement in the L2M about the timeout includes all the conditions required for a timeout to be granted, so it seems clear that it should have been even from the persepctive of the league. What they are trying to clarify in the wording is that the official did not see it and that is why it wasn't granted--not that it was correct not to grant it. The word choice was intentional around that, I am confident.

I do not believe they have ever classified a non-granted timeout as an incorrect call as I do not think they consider it a 'call' within the L2M report. If you can cite one where that happened, ok, but otherwise above is not accurate.
Not sure, they clearly define a timeout as a call though from this:
View: https://twitter.com/JeffZillgitt/status/1732533488778084735


Not sure why calling a timeout would be a call, but not calling it wouldn't classify as a no-call. I think basically their interpretation is... if a ref doesn't give you a timeout because they don't see it, it can't be incorrect, as part of the condition of getting a timeout is making it known to the ref, so if you don't get the ref's attention in time it's not a missed call, but rather the conditions weren't met, where if say they don't give it on the basis of not having possession and you do it is incorrect.


Edit- okay found some past ones and that appears to be what it is.... a timeout not granted can be a correct no call in circumstances where a timeout is not legal, a timeout can be a incorrect no call if the ref rules that the player does not have possession and video shows he does, but if a timeout is not given because the ref does not see/hear the call for a timeout it is not considered an INC.
 
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radsoxfan

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What is the purpose of the last 2 minute report?

I guess an attempt at transparency but there are always so many missed/bad calls, everyone is still unhappy, and even the report itself often has questionable conclusions.

Seems like a nice idea in theory but not sure I see the point in practice.
 

PedroKsBambino

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What is the purpose of the last 2 minute report?

I guess an attempt at transparency but there are always so many missed/bad calls, everyone is still unhappy, and even the report itself often has questionable conclusions.

Seems like a nice idea in theory but not sure I see the point in practice.
Agreed. Personally, I really liked it and thought it was reasonably accruate initially...but in the last couple years it has become a PR exercise, and at this point isn't worthwile anymore for the reasons you note.

I think NBA would say it is about transparency...and privately would say it is part of the way they manage media reaction to things (acknowleding some mistakes, and defending others). But I don't think it really works well on either of those fronts, at least or fans who follow very closely
 

Deathofthebambino

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The CNC is a reference to the lack of a foul call on the play (very clear from the explanation). No reason to believe an attempted timeout is a 'call' within the L2m definition. The statement in the L2M about the timeout includes all the conditions required for a timeout to be granted, so it seems clear that it should have been even from the persepctive of the league. What they are trying to clarify in the wording is that the official did not see it and that is why it wasn't granted--not that it was correct not to grant it. The word choice was intentional around that, I am confident.

I do not believe they have ever classified a non-granted timeout as an incorrect call as I do not think they consider it a 'call' within the L2M report. If you can cite one where that happened, ok, but otherwise above is not accurate.
Jesus, feels like they need replay review for the L2M report in order to understand it.

Why not just write "we fucked up" or "we didn't fuck up" and call it a day.
 

lars10

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That's exactly how it sounds to me.
The L2M report seems like an attempt to lend legitimacy to a process that is largely subjective but they want to look as though is not. If you report that something was correct or incorrect that means there’s someone or an organization that knows what the right call is at all times which we know isn’t the case.

I don’t believe they’ve ever released the criteria for why certain crews or particular refs are chosen for the playoffs or how they’re graded. There doesn’t seem to be any consequences at all for incorrect calls.. the report basically lets people know mistakes were made and promises that nothing will change because of it.
 

jon abbey

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I don't think this was posted here yet, sorry if it was but it's great either way.

Monica McNutt was the color person for game 2 on ESPN radio, here is a camera on her during the final sequence and if you have watched that a few times already (quite guilty), you can see the entire thing go down just via her wordless reactions, then I think she does a very strong job in the aftermath considering we all just saw something we had never seen before.

View: https://twitter.com/KnicksMuse/status/1782774953810567434
 

Murderer's Crow

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I feel like Embiid has been doing shit like that all series. The respect I have for his skill is completely offset by the piece of shit that he is.
 

JCizzle

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I'm trying to imagine Embiid and the Sixers reaction if somebody grabbed his legs mid-air and pulled him down. That's such a reckless, dirty fucking play. He's DWade levels of gross with this shit. He should have been tossed, no questions asked.
 

Auger34

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I'm trying to imagine Embiid and the Sixers reaction if somebody grabbed his legs mid-air and pulled him down. That's such a reckless, dirty fucking play. He's DWade levels of gross with this shit. He should have been tossed, no questions asked.
Great comp, since he also doesn’t get any shit for being a scumbag on the court
 

Murderer's Crow

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Just can't stop him. First he injures Mitchell and gets away with it, then he gets every godamn foul call possible and hartenstein tallies up 5. Hart needs to be more careful but this foul officiating is totally fucking opposite game 2.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Benny Hill sequences for both sides the last few minutes. Brunson passing to Batum, Maxey dribbling the ball off his foot.
 

jarules1185

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I think a playoff career high is even more impressive when you intentionally injure one of your primary defenders, it shows resourcefulness and that you can do it all yourself
 

Murderer's Crow

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Yea, I think the knicks were done at the end of the 3rd. They'll put up a fight but Embiid is gonna drop another couple 3s and they can't stop him.
 

Kliq

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Embiid with just a monster performance. The kind of performance that has been lacking on his postseason resume.
 

Euclis20

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Embiid with just a monster performance. The kind of performance that has been lacking on his postseason resume.
He's had some big games in the playoffs, though none quite like this (his three best games by game score before tonight were all against Atlanta in 2021, in which he averaged 39/12/4 and shooting 56% from the field). It won't mean shit (nor should it) until he gets out of the 2nd round. Philly has to win game 4 to make it a series, we'll go from there.

Seriously, big games in round 1 get forgotten almost immediately unless it's in the deciding game. Does anyone outside of Boston remember Tatum's 50 point game against the Nets in 2021?