2024 NFL Draft 2nd and 3rd round gamethread: Baruch atah Adonai WITH SPOILERS
- Thread starter tims4wins
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Evan Lazar's BPA: Lazar's Best Available Players for the Patriots on Day Two of the NFL Draft
He has Mitchell, DeJean, Coleman, Sainristil, McConkey, R. Wilson.
I gotta say, I like Roman Wilson. Maybe slide a few spots, then grab him.
He has Mitchell, DeJean, Coleman, Sainristil, McConkey, R. Wilson.
I gotta say, I like Roman Wilson. Maybe slide a few spots, then grab him.
I like Wilson too. Love Sainristil, but would be tough to pull the trigger given the needs on offense.
I love McConkey and Roman Wilson, just don't think they fit their needs at WR all that well. Pop Douglas, Bourne, Osborne and one of those guys would still leave you lacking on the outside.
Gots to be a tackle. They can’t even field a proper team imho with Okorafor at LT while there are at least serviceable WRs on the team. Theres enough cash around to get a top WR if you really want via trade and sign but tackles not so much.
My best guess is the Pats trade down, especially if they don’t see AD Mitchell as much different than Franklin, McConkey, et al. Wolff was talking about accumulating more picks, and he may see more value in adding a 3rd or 4th to slide down in the 2nd depending on their WR evaluations.
I could see them picking Sumataia (OT) out of BYU. There was a good write up (Athletic, I think) that talked about how his movement skills would fit well in the offense Van pelt is likely running. He’s very raw, but there is a lot of talent there.
I could see them picking Sumataia (OT) out of BYU. There was a good write up (Athletic, I think) that talked about how his movement skills would fit well in the offense Van pelt is likely running. He’s very raw, but there is a lot of talent there.
I was hoping Wilson (both Johnny and Roman) would be available at 68 or thereabouts. I would go either BPA at 34 or reach slightly for the top OT.
As of now, the Pats could roll out a WR trio of Bourne, Osborn, and Douglas. Definitely not any sort of all-pro group, but I think that's at least a professional quality WR corps. The LT situation is much, much worse, so they probably need that right now. But man I'd love to get a high level WR prospect in this draft.
Me too, I just think that’s a better chance of hitting in Rd 3 or 4 on a WR than on a Tackle in those rounds.
Maybe I’m naive but I see Tackle as NEED and WR as want.
I'm not going to fall for the Tyquan bullshit again, but his speed is kind of perfect to run those deep overs in Van Pelt's offense. Can't go into the year counting on him being productive, but I do think there's a chance he has a role. But then again, that would also be out of the slot.
Fwiw this is who I had in mind: 325 pound athletes with quick feet don’t get missed so you need to pay up.
Chuks maybe starts then moves to swing at the right time (let’s call this move ‘The Brissett’). Make it work with the WRs.
I'm certainly not opposed to this.
Unlike others though, I think there are several different ways they could go that would be fine with me.
Mitchell is just interesting. 6'4", 190 lbs (according to his sports-reference page; USA Today has him at 6'2, 205). Big and fast (4.34 in the 40). Totally explosive athlete.
But not as much production in college as you'd expect. Lots of 3 catch games this past season, but he had a really nice average at 15.4. He can burn and go get the ball. Of course, Tyquan Thornton is also tall and really fast, but he doesn't seem to be that great of a receiver. So some caution here with Mitchell. But they need to keep taking shots at legit playmakers, and he for sure fits that bill.
But not as much production in college as you'd expect. Lots of 3 catch games this past season, but he had a really nice average at 15.4. He can burn and go get the ball. Of course, Tyquan Thornton is also tall and really fast, but he doesn't seem to be that great of a receiver. So some caution here with Mitchell. But they need to keep taking shots at legit playmakers, and he for sure fits that bill.
The more I read on the WRs, I want DeJean or Suamataia at this pick. Either give me elite tackle upside or BPA. Corner is in decent shape, but it's not 0 need and I think an elite defense is one of the best chances the team has of surprising this year or next anyways.
Btw, for the more informed - what's the deal with Kool-Aid? I was seeing him mocked in the top 10-15 as recently as a month ago and now he's not even a top 2 corner left going into day 2?
Btw, for the more informed - what's the deal with Kool-Aid? I was seeing him mocked in the top 10-15 as recently as a month ago and now he's not even a top 2 corner left going into day 2?
When you have Shanahan-level job security, you can make jokes about how your drafting style doesn't work out on day 2:
View: https://twitter.com/StatsOnFire/status/1783749677537464386
View: https://twitter.com/StatsOnFire/status/1783749677537464386
Kool-Aid’s stock has been deflating for a while. Even back in December, the idea of him being a top half of round 1 guy started to wane a bit.
Doesn’t have any elite physical traits or ball hawking production which put him below guys who have something to make them stand out.
I think he was overrated coming into the season and has now settled into where he should have been evaluated all along rather than really sliding.
tough to be a 1st round corner if you don’t have high end playmaking ability or exceptional athleticism.
Good. That means it's unlikely to happen.
Everything I have heard and read tells me the Pats should avoid Mitchell.
I see them both as NEEDS with all capital letters, although more for 2025 than 2024. With apologies to Brissett and season ticket holders, I don't care whether the Pats win 5 or 7 games in 2024.
Personally, I'm fine trading back but grabbing another late 2nd/3rd as well as another pick next year. I want to stockpile young, high-end talent.
Also, the PFF simulator is sending along some huge offers for #34, for whatever that's worth (likely nothing, but how else are we going to kill the next hours?):
NE
Pick 34
DEN
Pick 76
Pick 121
Pick 147
2025 DEN 2nd
2025 DEN 3rd
I would be on board with trading one of the picks today for Deebo Samuel. They need to get somebody that is a matchup nightmare who has a proven track record to help out the offense.
I do--five means a better draft pick in 2025. If we accept that we're still in rebuilding mode this year, I'd love to see Maye holding a clipboard for all seventeen games, learning about the NFL, and adapting his own game to the pro level. It'll be easier to get him the weapons he needs in year two if we have more draft capital, either to use early or trade.
My preference is they got OT in round 2 and then a WR or TE in Round 3 (or move up slightly to grab one). I'd rather Brissett/Maye spend this season upright throwing to subpar receivers than running for their lives or spending the game on their back while WRs run routes in a void where they are never going to see a pass.
I'd like to come out of today with an OT and some type of passcatcher (WR or TE), and ideally with more picks than we started with.
If they trade for a vet, Aiyuk would be great, Deebo would have to be relatively cheap, Higgins inbetween the two. Deebo beyond playstyle has the issue that if I trade for a WR, I want to have at least most of Maye's rookie deal with the WR being under 30.
If they trade for a vet, Aiyuk would be great, Deebo would have to be relatively cheap, Higgins inbetween the two. Deebo beyond playstyle has the issue that if I trade for a WR, I want to have at least most of Maye's rookie deal with the WR being under 30.
Well, exactly. I'd rather they win 5 games than 7 put that way.
As I said elsewhere, Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, and Aaron Rodgers all held a clipboard and learned for at least a year. There are of course plenty of exceptions who played right away, but given the glaring needs all over the roster I'd rather give Maye some time to grow and learn.
Most first rounders who sit a whole year were drafted by playoff teams with very good to great entrenched QBs. I understand not wanting to rush Maye, or not going into the season with the idea to play him right away, I'm right there with you guys. I don't understand hoping he never sees the field and entering 2025 without a clue of his ability to play in the NFL.
Some players learn by playing though, it's not one size fits all. We won't know what's best for Maye yet. He will, however, be older on opening day than CJ Stroud was last year.
samuel also has a proven track record of getting banged up. He’s not a good bet to be a high end player in 2026 when this team is ready to try to compete.
he’s a finishing touch for a team trying to go from “playoff contender to Super Bowl contender” or “Super Bowl contender to Super Bowl winner”. He doesn’t make sense for a team which is probably looking at under 13 wins total the next two years barring a miraculous development from Maye
I really hope they don't trade #34 for a vet WR, they're so far away from being competitive on the offensive side of the ball that they need to treat this like a two year rebuild process and try and stock up on talent at multiple positions. Plus money spent on something like an Aiyuk extension would be better spent on locking up Barmore IMO, though I'll admit they might have cap room to do both.
I agree. I’m not trading 34 for Deebo under any circumstance. Get a younger receiver in a rookie deal at 34 than one who is always hurt.
Definitely true, no one size fits all. Still, on a roster with as many glaring holes as the Pats, I just don't love the idea of a rookie taking the reins.
Even as a non-Bengals fan I remember Joe Burrow getting wrecked and tearing his ACL/MCL behind a patchwork OL in 2020. Obviously he came back and made the Super Bowl the next season, and the NFL is inherently dangerous, and that's just cherrypicking one example, but I'm in no rush to send Maye into the fire.
Agreed. The hardest of passes on Deebo given his never ending nagging injuries and the fact that he’ll be 29 in January. He’s a much better play for a team ready to win now, like the Jets or something.
That WR group has to be one of the 5 worst in the NFL. Clearly the Chargers are the worst but the Patriots are just ahead of them in a group with the Titans and Panthers.
Probably depends on how the offense looks right? I understand wanting to get him reps but I also wouldn't want to throw him to the wolves to get destroyed. Let Brissett take those knocks
I don't think anyone hopes he doesn't see the field next year. There's just no need to force it if the situation isn't right. The team is likely going to be bad, the OL and WR units are huge question marks as of right now and that's not exactly a great environment to drop a rookie QB into. So, if that remains the case during the season, there is no reason to throw him into a bad situation. If the OL solidifies and the pass catching unit is competent, they'll probably feel better about getting him playing time.
And all of that doesn't take into account Maye, himself. He's not a finished product. Even if the OL and WR units are solid, the team might not feel Maye has developed enough himself to see the field in year 1. We obviously won't know what they're thinking, but if he doesn't play in year 1, it might be because he's just not ready.
But I think everyone would love to see him play at some point next year if things break the right way.
And that's just it. If they feel he needs to learn by playing and failing and think he has the makeup to handle that, then it's not forcing it.
Rookie mini-camp is in a few weeks right?
I think when you are trying to rebuild a culture it would be a mistake to take someone like Mitchell. Plus, even his best reps to me suggest high end WR2 not WR1. Specifically has some odd releases that play him into contact even when he chops. He also isn't very good at contested situations. He plays smaller than he is.
Roman Wilson is another guy where he looks good in college but his speed isn't special in the NFL and he is a mediocre route runner PLUS he is bad RAC! If Wilson significantly upgraded his routes then yes he could be a quality vertical slot. He is an older player, a late breakout, and a bad route runner. Those are not things I want to bet on. 4.4 speed is great and will dust most college corners but NFL corners aren't intimidated by 4.4.
Hit rate for senior WRs is like 12%? Even if there is noise in the numbers the hit rate for them is low. He's imo overvaluing one trait. No thanks.
Hit rate for senior WRs is like 12%? Even if there is noise in the numbers the hit rate for them is low. He's imo overvaluing one trait. No thanks.
Yeah, that group is probably bottom 3 in the NFL. The "#1 WR" has never caught more than 55 passes in a season, he'll be 29 next year, and he's coming off a torn ACL (and I like Bourne a lot!).
I'll raise my hand and say I wouldn't mind not seeing him play next year. I'm not exactly rooting for anything -- we'll never know what the perfect development path is for any player -- but in what should be a stacked AFC on a bad roster in a rebuilding year, I guess it would be nice to see Maye play a bit in November/December but I'm also happy being patient.
Sorry if you've said this elsewhere, but how do you feel about the other WRs who are likely to go today? Are you buying the Deebo comps for Malachi Corley?
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Bingo. This team needs leaders and professionals right now. I wouldn't touch anyone with character concerns (Mitchell, JPJ). Get a culture built and then integrate the more talented headcases
Seems to me like there are potential difference makers who can play right away at WR that will be available at #34 and guys who are either more long-term projects at OT (Kingsley, Yale kid) or lower ceiling guys.
I'd rather take the WR at 34 and go OT in the 1st next year. Reach for an OT if you have to in round 3/4 just to get another body in but the talent at WR seems too good to pass up at 34.
I'd rather take the WR at 34 and go OT in the 1st next year. Reach for an OT if you have to in round 3/4 just to get another body in but the talent at WR seems too good to pass up at 34.
SMU and others discuss WRs in this thread:
https://www.sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/rank-the-wrs.42373/
Whoops. Completely forgot that Ridley signed there....
So, the Patriots have a bottom 3 WR core.
I loved Deebo coming out. I do not like Corley. Corley is the worst route runner I have seen recently. He honestly doesn't know how to play WR. I mean that. He is more CP84 than Deebo.
I have a bunch of clips of him turning the wrong way or not knowing how to play vs his leverage or just these step-counting robotic routes.
Corley has one thing working for him, his RAC. Oh it's good too. Elite even. But there is a lot more to being a wide receiver than being dangerous with the ball in your hands.
I have a 3-4 on Corley and would prefer to take him in round 4. In other words I am OUT!
As for the guys today? I love Franklin and Coleman. I really like Ladd. Jermaine Burton is awesome but he might have some character concerns - he is kind of an asshole off the field apparently (but on the field he is a high effort guy and very polished).
I also love Baker and Johnny Wilson. The two Washington receivers are great but we already have so many inside options... I am not a Tez Walker guy but if they got him later on in the draft that's cool.
If he's there I think McConkey has to be the pick.
He's one of those guys that just seems to know how to get open. A "QB's best friend" type. The Patriots don't really have that on offense right now
Edit, I was wrong! @SMU_Sox loves these WRs.
Personally, to go with common wisdom (always a risk), I want an OT and a WR of this group. Would be happy if the Pats traded up to get two guys in Round 2 -- I feel like the run on QBs in the 1st round has pushed down a lot of talent into the 2nd round. And h/t to @BigJimEd, posting over SMU's post from the WR thread.
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Paul and Kingsley are not low ceiling guys. They're the exact opposite. Paul is one of the best pass protectors in this years class. If his run blocking was on par he would've been drafted already. Kingsley is 21 and has outstanding athletic ability. I'm taking one of those guys before I even think about who Drake is throwing it to.