2023-24 Celtics

slamminsammya

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It’s not an easy thing for me to evaluate, for sure, but I haven’t had the impression that Jrue has been as dominant on defense as I was expecting. He’s tackled some big matchups, and done well with them - so that I didn’t expect, but haven’t quite seen the lock down perimeter defense I thought we’d see. Not saying he’s been bad at all, I just had really high expectations given his reputation. If he’s on the Marcus Smart defensive trajectory, he becomes a significant luxury. Not my money, so if they want to pay him, I wouldn’t complain one bit. But, if we let DWhite go or some other cost cutting move to pay big money to Jrue I will be upset.
not disagreeing but be sure to factor in offenses are better than they've ever been, and they are getting better every year at a startling pace. meanwhile the Celtics have a top five or so defense in the league.

it's very hard to look as dominant defensively as you could even five years ago.
 

lars10

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I missed the game so I watched this instead and the way it's edited you'd think that the Jazz were actually competitive.
Yeah.. I noticed that too. They showed basically every Jazz basket and hardly any of the C's. In the third quarter there's a run where they showed no Celtics baskets.. you just see that the lead stays the same or grows. It was basically a Jazz highlight reel, which was odd.
 

sonofgodcf

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The toilet.
Yeah.. I noticed that too. They showed basically every Jazz basket and hardly any of the C's. In the third quarter there's a run where they showed no Celtics baskets.. you just see that the lead stays the same or grows. It was basically a Jazz highlight reel, which was odd.
Unless something notable happens, the recaps usually skip over FT's. The C's (mainly Tatum and KP) lived at the line in the third. Probably why there wasn't much in the way of highlights for that quarter.
 

Red Averages

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Celtics embarrassed again scoring a lowly 118 vs the Pacers. The fortitude of this team continues to disappoint. One wonders if they will ever get their shit together.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Celtics embarrassed again scoring a lowly 118 vs the Pacers. The fortitude of this team continues to disappoint. One wonders if they will ever get their shit together.
What are the solutions?

a) Fire shitty coach
b) Jaylen must go
c) Get Smart back the first day he's eligible.

Something needs to happen we cannot go on like this!
 

InstaFace

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I've been saying it all year, Mike, the test of this team is whether they got it in the third quarter, and you saw it yourself, they don't got it. At this point I only watch the third quarters of games, it doesn't matter at all what happens in the other quarters, and I gotta tell you I'm disappointed in them. They should be disappointed in themselves, too!
 

kazuneko

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I said it in the game thread but this team is it. They’re the one. True championship material.
Most satisfying victory of the season.
The refs sucked all night and it didn't matter. When they final got some calls to go their way in the 3rd quarter they couldn't hit any free throws, going 4 for 12 from the line (never seen an NBA team miss 8 free throws in one quarter). But again, it didn't matter. Aaron Nesmith was obnoxious and out of control, knocking Porzingis out of the game early (after poking him in the eye) and for some reason taunting Jrue Holliday (probably the most well liked player in the game) in the 3rd quarter. And again, it didn't matter.
The Cs showed up and dominated in the 4th and the Pacers were embarrassed in their own stadium, with Tatum unstoppable throughout. Hopefully they finish burying this team on Monday.
 

lovegtm

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Obviously Indy was unlucky to shoot THAT badly from 3, but it wasn't a true 8-42 night imo. A number of those were forced 3s because they couldn't get anything better.

Really consistently good defensive performances since the 3rd quarter against OKC.
 

Justthetippett

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Most satisfying victory of the season.
The refs sucked all night and it didn't matter. When they final got some calls to go their way in the 3rd quarter they couldn't hit any free throws, going 4 for 12 from the line (never seen an NBA team miss 8 free throws in one quarter). But again, it didn't matter. Aaron Nesmith was obnoxious and out of control, knocking Porzingis out of the game early (after poking him in the eye) and for some reason taunting Jrue Holliday (probably the most well liked player in the game) in the 3rd quarter. And again, it didn't matter.
The Cs showed up and dominated in the 4th and the Pacers were embarrassed in their own stadium, with Tatum unstoppable throughout. Hopefully they finish burying this team on Monday.
Is Nesmith like that in every game or does he save it for BOS? I get the chip on the shoulder thing to an extent but the guy was given plenty of chances here, couldn't buy a shot or play D without fouling and got traded into a perfect situation where he's now flourishing. Why is he so angry at BOS?
 

lovegtm

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Is Nesmith like that in every game or does he save it for BOS? I get the chip on the shoulder thing to an extent but the guy was given plenty of chances here, couldn't buy a shot or play D without fouling and got traded into a perfect situation where he's now flourishing. Why is he so angry at BOS?
He always played like that, even with Boston.
 

NomarsFool

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I’m glad that my complaining about Tatum’s pull up threes motivated him to go like 10-10 on contested threes (exaggerated, but not by much). Now if I could just get some traction on my complaints about Gaza and global warming the world would be a better place.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I’m glad that my complaining about Tatum’s pull up threes motivated him to go like 10-10 on contested threes (exaggerated, but not by much). Now if I could just get some traction on my complaints about Gaza and global warming the world would be a better place.
When goes nuclear like that, it just doesn’t matter. At the end, with the game in hand, everyone in the stadium knew the step-back was coming and not only drained it to get to 38 but laughs his way back down the floor like we’re all the dumbest people alive and he could hit shots from Mars if he wanted. He might put up 50 on Monday.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Obviously Indy was unlucky to shoot THAT badly from 3, but it wasn't a true 8-42 night imo. A number of those were forced 3s because they couldn't get anything better.

Really consistently good defensive performances since the 3rd quarter against OKC.
This was well on its way to being a frustrating loss until they stepped up and shut Indy down in the 4th.

I agree that our defense contributed to the 8-42, and at the end of the day Indy has the #1 offense in the league and we held them to their season low in points scored.

Things I did not like in this one:
  • 10-19 from the free throw line. No free throws even attempted in the first half, 6-14 in the third quarter. Tatum was 2-4, Brown was 4-8. That would have been a shitty way to lose a close game.
  • Turnovers. Celtics turned the ball over 17 times to the Pacers 9. But through 3 quarters it was 14 to 5, enough to more than account for the 5-point difference. This has haunted them in past playoff runs and might again if they do not clean it up. Tatum, White, and Brown combined for 11 of the turnovers.
  • Indy's defense is weird, in the sense that they are 26 of 30 teams in DRtg, but they allow the fewest 3-point attempts in the league (27.9). They lead the league in 2-point attempt and makes. Early in the game the Celtics, led by Brown, went right at the soft interior D with some success, but at the end of the day the Celtics are so wired to jacking threes that they got away from that. A couple of their turnovers were bad kick out passes from drivers who seemed to have a path to the rim. Of course, Tatum's 8-13 from three is a large part of the reason they won.
  • Another soft 3rd quarter. Not as bad as the OK game, but they allowed Indy to cut the lead to 1 before rallying late.Third quarter problems were missing 8 free throws and shooting 2-9 from three.
  • Officiating seemed rough. Despite the fact that the Celtics drove a lot early in the game, they had no free throws in the first half. Three Celtics (Tatum, White, Hauser were basically in foul trouble all game long). The refs stopped the game with the Celtics in transition to call a T on Rick Carlisle, which is not supposed to happen. (In the previous game, Brown picked up a T and the officials properly did not whistle the play dead until the Celtics took possession.
Things I liked
  • Holding the #1 offense in the league to its season low, 101 points. This happened on the strength of 2 great defensive quarrters, the 1st (17 points) and the 4th (20 points).
  • Rallying late in the third after Indy cut the lead to 1 point.
  • Best offensive quarter of the night in the 4th, scoting 34 points
  • Tatum's great night (36 points on 14-23, 8-13 from three, 14 rebounds, 6 assists)
  • Brown's great night (31 points on 13-20, 1-4 from three)
  • Horford's great night (10 points, team-leading 8 assists , 7 rebounds, 2 blocks)
  • Nice 20-minute bench stint from Brissett. DId not shoot well (3-9), but ended up with 8 points (all in the 4th) and 8 rebounds, 5 offensive, along with a block that was one of the crazy highlights of the night. (Jaylen Brown blocked Buddy Hield, Indy secured the rebound and the ball came back out to Hield for a three, and Brissett came flying in from the side to block Hield again).
 

lars10

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Tatum and White had to sit most of the third with 4 fouls.. the C’s weren’t soft.. they were down three starters…and Hauser had 4 fouls as well. They were doing their best just to hold on. Sometimes context matters.
 

tims4wins

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Tatum and White had to sit most of the third with 4 fouls.. the C’s weren’t soft.. they were down three starters…and Hauser had 4 fouls as well. They were doing their best just to hold on. Sometimes context matters.
The Pacers never led. Not once. About the only thing I can fault last night is the FT shooting.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Is Nesmith like that in every game or does he save it for BOS? I get the chip on the shoulder thing to an extent but the guy was given plenty of chances here, couldn't buy a shot or play D without fouling and got traded into a perfect situation where he's now flourishing. Why is he so angry at BOS?
He always had played with his hair on fire, but there's definitely something extra going on with him. Dude needs to tone it down a notch for sure, he's reckless out there.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This was well on its way to being a frustrating loss until they stepped up and shut Indy down in the 4th.
Question - do you get your streams from something other than League Pass because the Celtics never trailed in this game? The lead fluctuates because in NBA games teams don't *always* maintain the same margins throughout the contest as subs come in, teams make runs and momentum changes. I suspect whatever you are watching - (is it FreeVee or something?) - isn't showing you the same things.

I am serious - in what reality was this game *well on its way*?


76219
 

RorschachsMask

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Question - do you get your streams from something other than League Pass because the Celtics never trailed in this game? The lead fluctuates because in NBA games teams don't *always* maintain the same margins throughout the contest as subs come in, teams make runs and momentum changes. I suspect whatever you are watching - (is it FreeVee or something?) - isn't showing you the same things.

I am serious - in what reality was this game *well on its way*?


View attachment 76219
When they weren’t up by double digits on the road against one of the better teams in the East, obviously.
 

tims4wins

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Question - do you get your streams from something other than League Pass because the Celtics never trailed in this game? The lead fluctuates because in NBA games teams don't *always* maintain the same margins throughout the contest as subs come in, teams make runs and momentum changes. I suspect whatever you are watching - (is it FreeVee or something?) - isn't showing you the same things.

I am serious - in what reality was this game *well on its way*?


View attachment 76219
When they weren’t up by double digits on the road against one of the better teams in the East, obviously.
The Pacers did not have a single possession in the second half where they could have taken the lead. Moreover, they only had 2 possessions all half when they were only down by 3 points.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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When they weren’t up by double digits on the road against one of the better teams in the East, obviously.
We are in a virtuous little stretch with this team - even including the Thunder loss - that it seems a shame not to recognize just how thoroughly they dominated the Pacers in that game. It did get within one score but you could see that Indy was using all of its firepower just to get there.

That game was essentially an ass-kicking from the jump. All I am suggesting is that maybe we don't need to find problems where there are none. This team is a wagon right now - that can change in an instant - so why not enjoy it rather than using spin to concoct false drama?

This team is going to face adversity at some point. Just know that so we should be reveling in the good times imo. YRMV (not @ you Rorschach - at the royal *us*).
 

Eddie Jurak

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Question - do you get your streams from something other than League Pass because the Celtics never trailed in this game? The lead fluctuates because in NBA games teams don't *always* maintain the same margins throughout the contest as subs come in, teams make runs and momentum changes. I suspect whatever you are watching - (is it FreeVee or something?) - isn't showing you the same things.

I am serious - in what reality was this game *well on its way*?
I get that this is mostly ad hominem, but: their lead fell from 16 late in the second quarter to 1 late in the third, with 2 starters and one of our bench regulars in foul trouble, and the team shooting below 50% on fucking free throws. If you watched the game and didn't see it slipping away, maybe you weren't paying attention?
 

RorschachsMask

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The Pacers did not have a single possession in the second half where they could have taken the lead. Moreover, they only had 2 possessions all half when they were only down by 3 points.
I couldn’t imagine having any negative thoughts about that game, personally.

The free throws were annoying I guess, but second night of a B2B and they couldn’t buy a whistle the entire first half. I’m just going to blame the refs, Celtics just got rusty.
 

RorschachsMask

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We are a virtuous little stretch with this team - even including the Thunder loss - that it seems a shame not to recognize just how thoroughly they dominated the Pacers in that game. It did get within one score but you could see that Indy was using all of its firepower just to get there.

That game was essentially an ass-kicking from the jump. All I am suggesting is that maybe we don't need to find problems where there are none. This team is a wagon right now - that can change in an instant - so why not enjoy it rather than using spin to concoct false drama?

This team is going to face adversity at some point. Just know that so we should be reveling in the good times imo. YRMV.
Yeah I was being sarcastic lol, maybe I’m too good at it. People can’t tell in person, either.
 

Eddie Jurak

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We are a virtuous little stretch with this team - even including the Thunder loss - that it seems a shame not to recognize just how thoroughly they dominated the Pacers in that game. It did get within one score but you could see that Indy was using all of its firepower just to get there.

That game was essentially an ass-kicking from the jump. All I am suggesting is that maybe we don't need to find problems where there are none. This team is a wagon right now - that can change in an instant - so why not enjoy it rather than using spin to concoct false drama?

This team is going to face adversity at some point. Just know that so we should be reveling in the good times imo. YRMV.
Now I think you actually didn't watch the game - I don't think anyone who actually saw last night's third quarter would say that the Celtics dominated it.

But also who named you arbiter of what topics are OK to discuss?
 

PedroKsBambino

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I get that this is mostly ad hominem, but: their lead fell from 16 late in the second quarter to 1 late in the third, with 2 starters and one of our bench regulars in foul trouble, and the team shooting below 50% on fucking free throws. If you watched the game and didn't see it slipping away, maybe you weren't paying attention?
I thought d effort and rebounding slid second half of third quarter in a way that, for last years team, often portended trouble.

this year’s team is both mentally tougher and (imo) more adaptable and resilient and turned it right around. I’m far from a doubter but I wouldn’t question EJ’s feeling in this particular game
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah I was being sarcastic lol, maybe I’m too good at it. People can’t tell in person, either.
I got it. Was just adding on to clarify my post.

In all seriousness, they dominated a very good offensive team on the back end of a B2B, on the road. It was maybe their most impressive victory of the season given that they lost Porzingis so early.

This team is a monster and imo the only thing we need to discuss is health. That will be a discussion too because it may mean that at some point, Mazzulla has to punt some games in the interest of resting players but that's a bridge we can battle across when we get there.
 

RorschachsMask

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I got it. Was just adding on to clarify my post.

In all seriousness, they dominated a very good offensive team on the back end of a B2B, on the road. It was maybe their most impressive victory of the season given that they lost Porzingis so early.

This team is a monster and imo the only thing we need to discuss is health. That will be a discussion too because it may mean that at some point, Mazzulla has to punt some games in the interest of resting players but that's a bridge we can battle across when we get there.
The more they steamroll now, the more leeway they’ll have to rest guys later. Schedule is super soft in February and March, so should be able to afford it either way.

And they are fucking steamrolling.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Now I think you actually didn't watch the game - I don't think anyone who actually saw last night's third quarter would say that the Celtics dominated it.

But also who named you arbiter of what topics are OK to discuss?
To clarify my language, they dominated the entire game. And no, I am not an arbiter of what topics are OK to discuss but people need to understand that when *we* opt to post here, we are opening our choice of language up to criticism.

Like you, I too wonder how anyone can watch that game and come away with the idea that they were "well on their way to a frustrating loss".
 

SteveF

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The Pacers shot 8-42 from 3 and the Celtics turned the ball over 18 times. They won the game and on the whole I thought deserved to win, but there was some shooting variance in there contributing to the final score.
 

jmcc5400

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To clarify my language, they dominated the entire game. And no, I am not an arbiter of what topics are OK to discuss but people need to understand that when *we* opt to post here, we are opening our choice of language up to criticism.

Like you, I too wonder how anyone can watch that game and come away with the idea that they were "well on their way to a frustrating loss".
I think we're all at different places in our journey with this team. God knows there have been growing pains over the years and we have seen a *lot* of big leads carelessly blown. I can't fault EJ if he was feeling antsy over a 16 point lead whittled to 1 on the road against a hot team on the second night of a back to back. From my perspective, I think the team has finally grown up and I have considerably less stress about them righting themselves when they go on an in-game slide (maybe the years of making them play through it has paid off; maybe it's more Holiday and White and the absence of our beloved agent of chaos) as is apt to happen in the NBA.
 

Eddie Jurak

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In all seriousness, they dominated a very good offensive team on the back end of a B2B, on the road. It was maybe their most impressive victory of the season given that they lost Porzingis so early.
In the post you cherry picked one comment from to take issue with, I noted this very thing: Indy has the top offense in the NBA (Boston is #2) and the Celtics held them to their lowest point total. So I agree about this.

This team is a monster and imo the only thing we need to discuss is health. That will be a discussion too because it may mean that at some point, Mazzulla has to punt some games in the interest of resting players but that's a bridge we can battle across when we get there.
I'm less sure about this.

Last year, the Celtics had the #2 offensive rating and #3 defensive rating, and they barely reached the ECF where they lost. This year they are the #2 offense and #2 defense.

I do think they are imprved over last year, but some of the same issues seem to remain (third quarter issues, turnovers being the biggest two). They have the time (more than half a season) and the talent on hand to figure these things out, and they are a better team today than they were in October, so thigns are moving in the right direction.
 

kazuneko

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Tatum and White had to sit most of the third with 4 fouls.. the C’s weren’t soft.. they were down three starters…and Hauser had 4 fouls as well. They were doing their best just to hold on. Sometimes context matters.
And they would have maintained their half time lead had they been able to hit free throws. They lost the third quarter by 6 points and missed 8 free throws in the quarter..
 

lovegtm

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In the post you cherry picked one comment from to take issue with, I noted this very thing: Indy has the top offense in the NBA (Boston is #2) and the Celtics held them to their lowest point total. So I agree about this.


I'm less sure about this.

Last year, the Celtics had the #2 offensive rating and #3 defensive rating, and they barely reached the ECF where they lost. This year they are the #2 offense and #2 defense.

I do think they are imprved over last year, but some of the same issues seem to remain (third quarter issues, turnovers being the biggest two). They have the time (more than half a season) and the talent on hand to figure these things out, and they are a better team today than they were in October, so thigns are moving in the right direction.
I'm all for figuring things out and improving, since there are definitely areas for improvement.

However, part of improvement is targeting the feedback, otherwise there's no ability to focus. I think that saying last night was "3rd quarter issues" isn't really actionable, since the action would be "try harder on FTs and try harder on open 3s".

The turnover stuff definitely is actionable.....and the bulk of that happened in the 1st half. The 3rd quarter actually had quite good process, and I don't think they'll look at the tape and think that that was the part to change.

If anything, they'll probably try to play more like they did in the 3rd and 4th, when they got to the line and attacked and moved Indy around a lot.
 

tims4wins

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I'm all for figuring things out and improving, since there are definitely areas for improvement.

However, part of improvement is targeting the feedback, otherwise there's no ability to focus. I think that saying last night was "3rd quarter issues" isn't really actionable, since the action would be "try harder on FTs and try harder on open 3s".

The turnover stuff definitely is actionable.....and the bulk of that happened in the 1st half. The 3rd quarter actually had quite good process, and I don't think they'll look at the tape and think that that was the part to change.

If anything, they'll probably try to play more like they did in the 3rd and 4th, when they got to the line and attacked and moved Indy around a lot.
Seriously. 3-9 from 3 instead of 2-9 and slightly better on FTs and they win the quarter
 

m0ckduck

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Last year, the Celtics had the #2 offensive rating and #3 defensive rating, and they barely reached the ECF where they lost. This year they are the #2 offense and #2 defense.
This is misleading, since the Celtics 6.5+ point differential last year was the lowest figure to lead the league since the 1970s. So, ranking 2-3 in both offense and defense profiled as less dominant than in any other season in recent memory.

Last year, the C's were a 57 win team with a 6.5 point differential that had lost some close games but also been trounced by the likes of the Bulls twice already by this point in the season. This year, they're on a 66-win pace with a 10.8 differential (would be 7th all time if they keep it up) and have lost one single game all season that didn't go to OT or wasn't decided in the last minute. No, they aren't guaranteed to win a title and they don't look great every quarter, but I don't know what higher criteria you want a team to meet through 35 games.

Edit: moreover...
I do think they are imprved over last year, but some of the same issues seem to remain (third quarter issues, turnovers being the biggest two)
They're currently 10th in 3rd quarter margin and 9th in fewest turnovers allowed. So, if they're in the top third of the league even in the areas that are supposed to be their biggest weaknesses, then I don't know what we're supposed to worry about.
 
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Euclis20

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They beat a red hot playoff team, on the road, on a 2nd night of a back to back, by 17, with 2 starters combining for just 30 minutes due to injuries and foul trouble. On the other hand, they lost the 3rd quarter by 6 points. Hard to feel good about it.
 

lars10

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I get that this is mostly ad hominem, but: their lead fell from 16 late in the second quarter to 1 late in the third, with 2 starters and one of our bench regulars in foul trouble, and the team shooting below 50% on fucking free throws. If you watched the game and didn't see it slipping away, maybe you weren't paying attention?
Were Tatum and White never going to come back in on your scenario?
 

lars10

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Last year's Wolrd Champion Celtics no doubt agree with you.
Man you’re posts are miserable sometimes

edit: because as we all know this team is exactly the same as last year’s

edit2: I guess until they win a championship you’ll always be ‘right’