What drug did Ortiz take? Just curious…Congrats Sox fans, but what a joke. If you truly think Ortiz never did any PEDs, I think you're kidding yourself, but fine. He should be in regardless. Some of the greatest players ever and the absolute best of their generation were shut out of what's supposed to be the very place that celebrates them. Put them in their own wing, put something on their plaques, whatever. Instead, the Hall of Fame ceases to be relevant moving forward.
I think it included a lot of rice and beansWhat drug did Ortiz take? Just curious…
I never said I knew what drug he took. I just think it's hard to believe that man never tried a PED. I know many of you will disagree. Again - I think he should be in. But so should Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod.What drug did Ortiz take? Just curious…
He was formally tested under MLB policy for nearly the entirety of his Sox career and never failed a single one. So if you want to believe he did something that never showed up in a test for 12 years, while dozens of others were pinched, have at it.I never said I knew what drug he took. I just think it's hard to believe that man never tried a PED. I know many of you will disagree. Again - I think he should be in. But so should Bonds, Clemens, and A-Rod.
And looking at the SoSH HoF thread - many seem to agree that Bonds, Clemens, and Arod should be in.He was formally tested under MLB policy for nearly the entirety of his Sox career and never failed a single one. So if you want to believe he did something that never showed up in a test for 12 years, while dozens of others were pinched, have at it.
I feel the same way about JeterI never said I knew what drug he took. I just think it's hard to believe that man never tried a PED.
I’d put those guys in as well. The PED stuff just never bothered me the way it does others.And looking at the SoSH HoF thread - many seem to agree that Bonds, Clemens, and Arod should be in.
Too bad SoSH doesnt have a vote and we have clowns dropping ballots that are
blank instead.
Agree. Those 3 had HoF stuff before PEDsI’d put those guys in as well. The PED stuff just never bothered me the way it does others.
I don’t even parse it that way. Bonds and Clemens played when there was no testing. If MLB didn’t think it was important enough to forbid, then I don’t care to put a post-career sanction on them. A-Rod failed the test and paid the price. The numbers he put up still happened and they’re HoF caliber.Agree. Those 3 had HoF stuff before PEDs
The question isn’t even that. It’s, “What rules did Ortiz break?”What drug did Ortiz take? Just curious…
Holier than thou writers. Bonds was appointment viewing in the 00s. His hand / eye coordination and zone recognition remains otherwordly.I don’t even parse it that way. Bonds and Clemens played when there was no testing. If MLB didn’t think it was important enough to forbid, then I don’t care to put a post-career sanction on them. A-Rod failed the test and paid the price. The numbers he put up still happened and they’re HoF caliber.
I know others disagree with my take and I respect that.
A-Rod will be an interesting case to follow, his 34% this year is actually less than Bonds (36.2%) and Clemens (37.6%) got in their first year of eligibility. Maybe the ensuing nine years will see a change in opinion by the writers on issues of steroids, but A-Rod’s suspension for the Biogenesis scandal, in addition to the rest of his admitted history of PED use, may be enough to keep enough voters from voting for him.A-Rod at 34% seems like a good start, and Rolen should get in within a couple years as the ballot gets less bloated
No way Rivera's stuff was naturalI feel the same way about Jeter
No you're really trolling the deep end of the poolNo way Rivera's stuff was natural
Cool.I feel the same way about Jeter
No need for before, they are HOF'ers PERIOD.Everyone keeps saying "They were HOF before..."
Yes, that's the point. They were BEFORE. Then they did what they did, which made them not.
It's really not a hard equation. If they wanted to remain Hall-of-Fame players, the only thing - LITERALLY THE ONLY THING - they had to do was not dope.
That's it.
They failed.
They're out.
Were the minor leagues testing when he went by Mike and was hitting blasts in Jacksonville that likely landed in Georgia, the Atlantic Ocean, or the moon?The Yankee who I am most sure used PEDs, and is using PEDS, is Stanton. No regular human could have launched that mammoth single in the WC game.
Fun fact, A-Rod never failed a test, unless you count the same 2003 test that Ortiz failed.I don’t even parse it that way. Bonds and Clemens played when there was no testing. If MLB didn’t think it was important enough to forbid, then I don’t care to put a post-career sanction on them. A-Rod failed the test and paid the price. The numbers he put up still happened and they’re HoF caliber.
I know others disagree with my take and I respect that.
I’m pretty sure there is in face a lot of discussion about Bonds and Clemens in this thread, and everybody was pretty sure they wouldn’t make it, and most of us thought they should get in. Your argument, that you know Ortiz used despite the lack of serious evidence that he used and despite The Commisioner saying he should be presumed innocent, and equating him with ARod based on your hunch, is not particularly worth discussing today. It’s been discussed all through this thread. And, yeah, it is just as fair to presume that any player who has never tested positive - even St Jeter - used as it is to presume Ortiz used. Steroids help with anything you might do on a baseball field, not just slugging, except going to your left.Cool.
Disappointing but not surprising to see a total lack of real discussion about this here. I get it on the main board, but I thought this thread might be more interested in discussing what just happened today. Too bad.
What is there to discuss? It’s not like there’s new ways to analyze the data, Bonds especially is either the 1st or 2nd best position player or all time, it’s purely a personal belief of whether you think steroid people should be in the hall or not… and at some point it’s just tiring and not useful or interesting to discussCool.
Disappointing but not surprising to see a total lack of real discussion about this here. I get it on the main board, but I thought this thread might be more interested in discussing what just happened today. Too bad.
But LOL, don't forget that two innocent people died at Mariano Rivera's house, one of whom was 14 years old! That's fucking funny, right?!?!
And moreover I think that’s really ultimately the point - there’s basically two camps, one that thinks being voted into the HoF is an ‘honor’ , and the other that it’s a museum encompassing the best players of each era. And there’s nothing really wrong with either view, and so if the HoF wants to do the former, then that’s their choice.Everyone keeps saying "They were HOF before..."
Yes, that's the point. They were BEFORE. Then they did what they did, which made them not.
It's really not a hard equation. If they wanted to remain Hall-of-Fame players, the only thing - LITERALLY THE ONLY THING - they had to do was not dope.
That's it.
They failed.
They're out.
ftfyThe Yankee who I am most sure used PEDs, and is using PEDS, is Stanton. No regular human could have launched that Stantonian single in the WC game.
Shoot, was he suspended because of the Balco stuff? I admit I’ve forgotten the particulars of that.Fun fact, A-Rod never failed a test, unless you count the same 2003 test that Ortiz failed.
I agree with you, except that for me it’s just more disinterest than anger - with everything else that’s happened over the last like 4 years, I just can’t get up that much emotion about the baseball HoFI absolutely never said I knew that Ortiz took PEDs. I just think if you weren't a Red Sox fan, you'd see this with a more rational point of view, and logic would tell you that it's very likely that at some point, David Ortiz tried some kind of PED. And guess what? He's still great! All the shit he did? It still happened! You don't have to be defensive!
I'm pissed off. I want to love the Hall of Fame, but I feel like it's become totally irrelevant. They just cannot pretend Barry Bonds didn't happen. If they want to, I'm not interested in ever going back there. And I want to be very clear here - I despised Barry Bonds. I hated it when he broke Hank Aaron's record. I rooted against him at every turn. But I also can recognize that he was fucking incredible at baseball, and no amount of steroids created that. He belongs in the Hall of Fame. This sucks.
Biogenesis, which was later in 2013-2014ish. The kind of unspoken thing about the Biogenesis scandal is that it exposed that widespread cheating was going undetected by MLB. A whole bunch of dudes were caught and suspended only because a disgruntled employee came forward with company documentation. I think a couple of the suspendees had been popped for cheating before (Braun a couple years earlier, for one), but the suspensions didn't come because of a failed MLB test.Shoot, was he suspended because of the Balco stuff? I admit I’ve forgotten the particulars of that.