The way this game has gone makes the Celtics win this past weekend look even better.
He's missed his calling as a volume scorer on a series of lottery teams.
2021-2022 NBA Game Thread!
- Thread starter ElUno20
- Start date
I think Cade is a great player but it was interesting to watch the CHI-DET game last night. Down the stretch, CHI got DeRozen switched onto Cade multiple possessions in a row and while Cade was game, DeRozen hit jumpers over Cade each time. Was interesting that they just let Cade play DeRozen straight up time and time again. Part of his learning curve I guess.
Do we think he's the 2nd or 3rd best guard from that trade in the playoffs?
In a truly shocking turn btw.... Andre Drummond who can't defend 99.9% of the league.... doing a good job on Embiid.
Man, what an unexpected beatdown - can't believe the Nets are up this much in Philly! Personalities aside, the Nets franchise has been mostly an exercise in futility since their NBA inception but I'm sure their loyal fan base is as excited about this team's chances as any that's come before
Last edited:
Cade was a great defender last year in college. I saw him specifically take over two games with his defense and multiple steals down the stretch of games. His BBIQ is off the charts for a kid his age.
I don’t think they will be shooting 60% from the floor and 50% from three every night but if they do they will absolutely steamroll the competition.
I get that, but theyve just wrecked the sixers, barely lost to the C's on the road and they are going to be adding Simmons to the mix. They definitely have the best healthy roster in the east imo.
I heartily hated the Jason Kidd, Kenyon Martin Nets teams of the early 2000s. This year’s version may make my blood boil to a similar level.
They look dangerous. I will say, I'm a Simmons fan, but.... he probably makes their offense worse unless he'll play C (even then I wonder if teams hack him in the playoffs and see if he's regular bad or last playoffs bad from the line). Now his D probably makes it worth it, but he changes the dynamics of that team in an unpredictable way on offense.
I love his game. I bleed green but Jokic's probably my favorite player to watch these days
They can probably get away with him at center against most teams, but not against Philly. I'd love to see it.
*edit - given his back injuries, I really can't see the Nets playing Simmons at center against any decent sized 5.
He's 19 and has been playing better.... but are people high on Green? Seems like a bust candidate to me.
Advanced stats show he not only bad, but worst player in the league level bad. You'd hope for something better than that with the #2 pick, even right out of the gate.
He had plenty of seasons like that with ORL and DET didn't he?
Harris definitely a dud now. Average player on an absurd contract, not one of Morey's finer moments.
He also suffers in comparison, because the other top 4 picks (Cade, Mobley and Barnes) have gotten off to really impressive starts. Obviously tongue in cheek but I saw a meme earlier comparing him to Darko, who was drafted #2 just behind LeBron and just ahead of Melo and Bosh. He's been pretty forgettable thus far.
I certainly may be inflating his prospects because I saw a physically gifted kid have what probably was his best NBA game, but his February and March numbers suggest that the game is slowing down for him: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/greenja05/splits/2022
Wasn’t it Elton Brand who made the trade and signed him to that contract? Unless you’re saying Morey should have done more to trade him.
Oops, yeah that was pre-Morey.
I had been thinking all season Morey should have dumped Harris with Simmons if at all possible, but forgot he wasn't the one that signed him in the first place.
Yeah the comparison doesn't do him any favors.
Jalen Green also is dead last rated player in the NBA in RAPTOR. #250 out of 250.
Attachments
This is one of those times where I will invoke the eye test. Green has been playing better of late and some of his finishes around the rim flash elite. But enough tell...
View: https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1500882132230672389?t=BAvmg49b63i28vkAWYrhRA&s=19
Maybe I'm wrong and the guy will be a bust. I will add though that it seems like one blind spot with advanced analytics are leaps made by young players, especially on bad teams - its hard to denominate production into wins when a team doesn't actually win.
He was really bad to start the year, especially defensively. The game is slowing down for him. He just turned 20, he has a lethal first step, his shot form is consistent. I have high hopes that he'll end up having a few years averaging 25ppg. The question is whether he can become a good passer and a team defender. Hopefully we get another high-pick this year to pair with him, and get an actual PG that will create easier shots for him.
I hate the Darko comp as Green doesn’t lack explosiveness or is mechanical. He still has a high ceiling bc of his physicals in being explosive and athletic. He’s a project for sure and one of the worst basketball players in the league for sure…..but he has the skillset to make some huge leaps if he is strong above the neck which I have no idea if he has the smarts and commitment to grow his game.
Yeah, I love the analytics but they seem not even wrong as a tool to evaluate young players. I completely ignore them for rookies. Eye test for young guys >>> advanced stats.
Green's scouting report was that he was an explosive player with star potential, but was extremely raw and wasn't going to blow people away from the start of his NBA career. The other aspect is that he plays on a non-competitive team that is fine with just letting him try and figure things out. That kills him in a lot of metrics because he is simply allowed to be really bad.
Ben Simmons replaces Drummond or Brown in their starting 5 depending on the opponent/match-up. Makes them scary good when healthy
Sixers will exit the playoffs with a whimper, sign Harden to a massive MAX and deal Harris/Maxey/Thybulle/future pick swaps for Brad Beal. It won't work since letting the opposing guards shoot and drive at will isn't a great strategy. Which will lead to Embiid demanding to be traded and a decade-long RE-Process...
Sixers will exit the playoffs with a whimper, sign Harden to a massive MAX and deal Harris/Maxey/Thybulle/future pick swaps for Brad Beal. It won't work since letting the opposing guards shoot and drive at will isn't a great strategy. Which will lead to Embiid demanding to be traded and a decade-long RE-Process...
James Wiseman made his return last night...in the G League:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz2yEqhwiV0
Hard to take anything away from the highlights of a G League game, but he looked athletic and ready physically to play at the NBA level.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz2yEqhwiV0
Hard to take anything away from the highlights of a G League game, but he looked athletic and ready physically to play at the NBA level.
He apparently gained ~20 lbs. of muscle, and it’s evident. Maybe a bit slower, but that’s to be expected with the added weight and the full year layoff. Looks more natural finishing with his right hand now, too. Otherwise, as you say, hard to take anything away from one G-League game. Fans will continue to be impatient and grumble that the Ws should have taken LaMelo (which would be nice for sure, with Poole, Moody, and Kuminga??) But not all young guys develop at the same pace, particularly when injuries are involved.
As a comp, I look at Jaren Jackson, Jr., who took a similarly long time to recover from meniscal surgery (which apparently has a much better long-term prognosis that the old removal practice, but a longer and more unpredictable recovery time, especially in players as big as Wiseman and JJJ). Jackson’s still rounding into shape and figuring out who he is as a player; and I’d expect similar over the next year or two from Wiseman, who’s two years younger than JJJ (also I think a bit bigger and a bit less quick).
Last edited:
Isn’t that Kevin Porter, Jr.? Or is he too much of a “live wire” to be part of any future plans?
Question for you and the Port Cellar denizens…
KPJ (21), Green (20), Christopher (20), Sengun (19)
v.
Poole (22), Moody (19), Kuminga (19), Wiseman (20)
Who do you take as you future core?
Kuminga's the jewel of that group and Poole is the most polished. So, the Warriors quartet for me.
Harden
Reg. Season: .443 FG, .362 3ptFG, .526 eFG, 25.0 points, 5.6 rebounds, 6.7 assists
Post Season: .428 FG, .332 3ptFG, .509 eFG, 23.3 points, 5.5 rebounds, 6.0 assists
Numbers are pretty close, but the real-life *performance* is pretty...not close.
Plus the Curry/Draymond/Klay influence has to be a HUGE advantage. These guys will learn habits from the best in the game.
I mean, isn’t it Warriors by a significant margin? Definitely in actual production and I think even in draft capital at the time….and that’s before you factor in the KPJ “live wire” you mentioned
Agreed. And good point about the draft capital. The Warriors group were drafted #2, #7, #14, and #28, where the Rockets guys were #2, #16, #24, and #30. Both Green and Sengun have had impressive flashes of potential, but one of them would really have to pop to make one think consider taking them over the Baby Dubs. Might be a fairer comp when they add another lotto pick this season.
I agree to an extent. Eye test definitely more important for rookies, particularly on bad teams. I dont think he's an assured bust or anything.
Having said that, the degree of "badness" might matter. A young raw player on a bad team might show glimpses of potential that contradict the advanced stats. But his advanced stats are REALLY bad. Like about as bad as they could possibly be.
Is that not catching any real signal? Have there been other eventual superstars that look this bad in year 1 by the metrics? I don't know the answer, but I'm just saying I'm not entirely sure the advanced stats are telling us nothing either.
That's a good one.
Not sure I would consider LaVine a "superstar" but he's obviously turned into a very good player that isn't a bad outcome for the #2 pick.
This feels like we are being sucked into the sequel of The Great Romeo Langford debate.
I don't know what his advanced stats were but Durant's rookie year was pretty sloppy.
So I'm going to ignore defense, because rookie defense to me is:
1. Not very predictive
2. Heavily teammate influenced.
On offense Green looks like rookie Durant or Butler (Butler was older)
1. Not very predictive
2. Heavily teammate influenced.
On offense Green looks like rookie Durant or Butler (Butler was older)
Not looking great for Romeo......
Honestly just pointing out Jalen has been worse than bad by many of the metrics.
If people think that's irrelevant, fair enough, could certainly end up being correct.