I'm already ready for when we pass on Thybulle 3 times, he ends up going to the Warriors or Spurs at the end of the first and has like a 12 year career as a defensive monster who shoots between 36 and 43% from 3 every year. It feels inevitable.
yep with you on Cam Johnson. Cam has received quite a bit of love from myself, chillidog and nighthob the last few months. High floor guy. 23yr old redshirt Sr may last until the 2nd round but probably doesn't make it to our #51. Do you use #22 on him?This guy is my catnip.
Tall dudes that have to play a position down from their height because they're too thin, but can shoot the hell out of it from the perimeter.
If they can grab him with one of their late picks, I'd dig it.
Feel like he'd be a nice 8th man. Unlikely to be much more than that as an old rookie, but think he's unlikely to be a zero either.
You must have loved the JaJuan Johnson trade then! I could go either way on Cam. I’d rather gamble on upside but he seems like he could potentially be a nice bench piece. As always, depends on who else is there.This guy is my catnip.
Tall dudes that have to play a position down from their height because they're too thin, but can shoot the hell out of it from the perimeter.
If they can grab him with one of their late picks, I'd dig it.
Feel like he'd be a nice 8th man. Unlikely to be much more than that as an old rookie, but think he's unlikely to be a zero either.
It depends on where the team is. My position has always been that you gamble on upside when you're rebuilding...….which for me made the Olynyk over Gobert, and for others Giannis, more infuriating. When you're contending you either trade the pick so you aren't locked into a multi-year guaranteed deal on a high upside rookie who a) won't help you win and b) won't get the reps to develop or you look at the 4-year college guys to possibly play backend rotation minutes on a cheap rookie deal.You must have loved the JaJuan Johnson trade then! I could go either way on Cam. I’d rather gamble on upside but he seems like he could potentially be a nice bench piece. As always, depends on who else is there.
Also, Thybulle just HAS to be a Celtic.
Not my tempo. That dude couldn't shoot it at all.You must have loved the JaJuan Johnson trade then! I could go either way on Cam. I’d rather gamble on upside but he seems like he could potentially be a nice bench piece. As always, depends on who else is there.
Also, Thybulle just HAS to be a Celtic.
JuJuan was the Big Ten Player of the Year in large part due to his deadly mid-range shooting. That was a large part of his offensive game.Not my tempo. That dude couldn't shoot it at all.
Good for him I guess. Not looking for mid range shooters at all. Perimeter and Paint.JuJuan was the Big Ten Player of the Year in large part due to his deadly mid-range shooting. That was a large part of his offensive game.
Only pointing out that he was a real good perimeter shooter who some thought he could play some 3 at the next level once he expanded his range. He just never adapted to the NBA game. He wasn't drafted in 2019.....GM's were still loving a strong mid-range game and Ainge wasn't any different with his draft history.Good for him I guess. Not looking for mid range shooters at all. Perimeter and Paint.
DPOY in Big 10 and 1st team all America.JaJuan Johnson was the very definition of a high floor, Sr late 1st round pick (27th)...JuJuan was the Big Ten Player of the Year in large part due to his deadly mid-range shooting. That was a large part of his offensive game.
I just watched video of Thybulle, and yes, absolutely,positively, without a doubt he guy HAS to be a Celtic. I fell in love with him immediately.You must have loved the JaJuan Johnson trade then! I could go either way on Cam. I’d rather gamble on upside but he seems like he could potentially be a nice bench piece. As always, depends on who else is there.
Also, Thybulle just HAS to be a Celtic.
The Celtics had that monster but Pitino traded him away (as did three other teams before he landed in San Antonio).I'm already ready for when we pass on Thybulle 3 times, he ends up going to the Warriors or Spurs at the end of the first and has like a 12 year career as a defensive monster who shoots between 36 and 43% from 3 every year. It feels inevitable.
Thybulle’s a guy who is worthless to a rebuilding team but has a skill set to be able to fill a specific role to help a good team win games. Philly is his shot for a good landing spot for him with one of their two early 2nd rounders but if Thybulle gets past them he’s likely going to last well into the 40’s or later. Extremely low upside but def a potential role player on a winning team if he works on his spot-up 3’a.I just watched video of Thybulle, and yes, absolutely,positively, without a doubt he guy HAS to be a Celtic. I fell in love with him immediately.
That makes sense to fill out the bottom few spots on the roster. He'll try to fill the 6-9 spots with vet mins.say Danny uses 2 picks (Sac & #22) to help land AD. And Danny has to deal a lot of the deep bench (Yabu, TL, Semi) in addition to Tatum (and maybe Smart....ugh).
PLUS lose Rozier, Theis, MaMo and potentially Baynes to FA.
Would dealing #20 for Brooklyn's #27 & #31 make sense so they could draft a combo of Cam Johnson and ThyBULLe'd instead of a PJ Washington?
Danny would start to fill out the bench with 2 older, cheaper, high floor, ready to contribute in limited minutes rookies instead of 1 higher upside 19yr old.
Others definitions may vary but this description is word for word how I would describe a player with “extremely limited upside.”I agree with the prospect of him falling- see Melton last year- but I think “extremely limited upside” is harsh. The elite 3&Ds of the world aren’t particularly exciting, but they contribute to winning and they’re typically affordable.
Now that you brought my draft binky into this his offensive upside is/was much greater as he’s a playmaker who can get pretty much to any spot on the floor with the ball......this is not Thybulle by any means. Murray’s questions surrounded his lack of a jump shot and frail physique which we’ve been over numerous times are the two easiest things for a player to improve upon in time.2016 Draft
Spurs take defensive stud from U-Dub, Dejounte Murray, at #29
2019 Draft
Defensive stud from U-Dub available. Spurs' 2nd pick? #29
It has been written...
Definitely didn’t dominate and “maestro” is not really correct for him but he did average almost 2 SPG. At UW in the limited amount I saw, he was flashing the skills that he demonstrated last year. His evolution into a stud at the NBA level was a thing to see. Nobody saw it coming because he lasted until almost the 2nd round despite having good size and athleticism along with playmaking skills,HRB I'm sure can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Dejounte really dominating on defense at UW. He certainly had the tools to and was projected favorably when/if he bulked up, but his evolution into basically the best defensive guard in the NBA last year was shocking. Hopefully the lost season doesn't set him back too much, he's a fun kid to root for. Him and Derrick White make a helluva defensive back court for Pop, though probably not quite as nasty as UW would've had this year if he had stayed four years with his freshman year running mate. Thybulle's obviously a lot closer to what he's going to be as a pro than Murray was, so yeah, his upside's limited with little hope of ever providing much creation, but he does have great tools, more than you might expect from a senior defensive specialist. It’s not like Jevon Carter last year, Thybulle has legitimate NBA length, foot speed, and athleticism on top of the elite instincts and tenacity that made Carter so disruptive at WVU. Someone mentioned Danny Green as a comp, and that sounds like the best one I've heard so far, but with a chance to get to Tony Allen-level on defense.
As a side note, it'll be pretty funny to everyone except Marquese Chriss and Markelle Fultz's moms if Murray and Thybulle turn out to be the best players to come out of the last stage of the Lorenzo Romar era at UW.
No he was rail thin with incredible basketball instincts (passing, rebounding, high energy) and crazy physical tools that projected great upside once he filled out and developed a consistent jumper. I definitely don’t feel he was THE best defensive guard in the league last year and not even on my short list of the best. Individual defensive metrics are skewed toward team defensive numbers and the Spurs has the league’s best DefRat last year.HRB I'm sure can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall Dejounte really dominating on defense at UW. He certainly had the tools to and was projected favorably when/if he bulked up, but his evolution into basically the best defensive guard in the NBA last year was shocking.
Danny Green entered the league as a great shooter who needed time to fill out physically before making an impact defensively. Thubulle is already physically there but when I say extremely limited upside I don’t see him as anything more than a worse shooting Green so even if he becomes a rotational player that is still limited upside by my definition.Hopefully the lost season doesn't set him back too much, he's a fun kid to root for. Him and Derrick White make a helluva defensive back court for Pop, though probably not quite as nasty as UW would've had this year if he had stayed four years with his freshman year running mate. Thybulle's obviously a lot closer to what he's going to be as a pro than Murray was, so yeah, his upside's limited with little hope of ever providing much creation, but he does have great tools, more than you might expect from a senior defensive specialist. It’s not like Jevon Carter last year, Thybulle has legitimate NBA length, foot speed, and athleticism on top of the elite instincts and tenacity that made Carter so disruptive at WVU. Someone mentioned Danny Green as a comp, and that sounds like the best one I've heard so far, but with a chance to get to Tony Allen-level on defense.
If I’m the Celtics, I want the guy who I know has an NBA skill vs. the guy who might have more than one. Thybulle averaged 4 SPG and 2.5 BPG in conference play. As a 6’5 wing. He is an absolute menace and should have a long career as a role player. I have no idea where he goes in the draft but I really want him on the Celtics. He could be the basketball equivalent of a really awesome LOOGY.A college admissions guy once told me, "I don't look for well-rounded applicants. I'm more interested in the length of the radii."
When you are drafting in the late 20's or 30's, do you go for the well-rounded player or the guy who does one thing really well? Thybulle defends on the ball and his steal numbers are off the charts. In some ways a one dimensional player like Thybulle is less of a risk than a player who does more things less well.
Jevon Carter, drafted by Memphis at #32, is another defensive bulldog who may or may not develop into a rotation player.
College stats:Danny Green entered the league as a great shooter who needed time to fill out physically before making an impact defensively. Thubulle is already physically there but when I say extremely limited upside I don’t see him as anything more than a worse shooting Green so even if he becomes a rotational player that is still limited upside by my definition.
Markus Howard has said he's going back to school.yep with you on Cam Johnson. Cam has received quite a bit of love from myself, chillidog and nighthob the last few months. High floor guy. 23yr old redshirt Sr may last until the 2nd round but probably doesn't make it to our #51. Do you use #22 on him?
Other upperclassmen that interest me for the 2nd round: Paschall, Edwards, Thybulle, Markus Howard, Grant Williams, Konate (declared for NBA?)
They really aren’t that close as shooters entering the draft.College stats:
Green: 184/491 from 3 (37.5%), 84.5% FT (2889 minutes played)
Thybulle: 191/534 from 3 (35.8%), 78.2% FT (3963 MP)
If Thybulle makes and Green misses one more three per year, they're even, so that's close enough to call it a push, even if Green has the edge from the line. That said, Green has been 40% from three in the NBA, which would be an optimistic projection for MT, or most anyone, no doubt. Don’t get me wrong, Danny Green has had a really good career, and a Danny Green-type, "key starter for multiple championship contenders" outcome is at the tail end of MT's possibilities, with maybe Thabo Sefolosha as a more reasonable expectation, but even if he shoots closer to Sefolosha (35.2% career) in a purely spot-up role, his median outcome on defense looks to be "really good", and his outlier, developed-by-the-Spurs outcome is a Tony Allen who can knock down threes.
I'm not disagreeing with you; but the quality of shots Green was getting playing for a loaded UNC team were probably much better than the quality of shots Thybulle was getting as one of the primary creators for a pretty average Washington team. Green was considered the fourth best prospect on that team (behind Ty Lawson, Wayne Ellington and Tyler Hansbrough) and probably got a lot of open looks from three his senior year compared to Thybulle. Thybulle did shoot 85 percent from the line his senior season.They really aren’t that close as shooters entering the draft.
I had said “when they entered the league”.......Green improved each of his last two years, which always displaying excellent mechanics, to 41.8% as a senior. Thybulle regressed each of his last two years to 30.5% as a senior.
I actually do like the Sefalosha comp as Thybulle’s ceiling which would be a success story for a 2nd round pick.
Most likely mere variance rather than predictive regression. Unless there’s a compelling reason not to, I’ll take the bigger sample size. Cuts the other way too, Thybulle shot over 85% from the line this year, but I’ll use his 78% college career for projecting forward.They really aren’t that close as shooters entering the draft.
I had said “when they entered the league”.......Green improved each of his last two years, which always displaying excellent mechanics, to 41.8% as a senior. Thybulle regressed each of his last two years to 30.5% as a senior.
There isn't a GM who would risk their job and reputation by passing on Zion just as there wasn't any choosing Durant over Oden with the possible exception of Ainge. There certainly could be strong trade offers on the table as Zion's marketing to a (relatively) struggling franchise could be worth as much if not more than his value on the floor during his rookie deal. I don't think it is etched in stone that Zion HAS to end up being the best player in this draft and I don't feel he will ever reach the heights that some have set for him...…..but no GM is selecting another player at 1 without receiving a ton in return.I watched less than 25 minutes of NCAA Men's Basketball this past season, but I thought Zion was the consensus number 1 pick. Is it just part of a misinformation campaign, gross negligence, or are teams concerned with ZW's unique phenotype?
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/253445/Suns-Reportedly-Prefer-To-Draft-Ja-Morant-Over-Zion-Williamson
How am I just learning now that AL is married to a former Miss Universe? I wonder how tall his 5 year old son is going to be, with a 6'2" mom and a 6'10" dadhttp://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26562658/missouri-jontay-porter-enter-nba-draft
Jontay reminds me of a less fit, more injury prone, not as likely to marry a 6'2" Miss Universe (@ AmeliaVega) version of Al Horford.
I know his injury history, but I would still draft him with the LAC/BOS pick.
Jontay is a veritable iron man compared to his brother.http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26562658/missouri-jontay-porter-enter-nba-draft
I know his injury history, but I would still draft him with the LAC/BOS pick.
One thing’s for sure, he’ll have to wear sunglasses full-time to avoid blinding the world with the combined beauty of his eyes.How am I just learning now that AL is married to a former Miss Universe? I wonder how tall his 5 year old son is going to be, with a 6'2" mom and a 6'10" dad
I probably would too, but I've seen the Horford comparison made quite a bit, and it's typically made in reference to his offense, which overlooks a significant part of what makes Horford so valuable- witness Playoffs Al, who really contained Sabonis (and Turner, when required) and will hopefully be adding Giannis, Lopez, and either Embiid or Gasol/Siakam to the list of vanquished. My sense of Jontay is that he's a smart defender with length, but from what I've seen (and this is before the second ACL) he doesn't come close to covering the ground laterally that Horford covers when defending the perimeter-oriented bigs, nor does he have the strength (even compared to Gator Al) that Horford uses to battle the bruisers. Maybe I have a bad read on his lateral movement, but a weaker, slower version of Horford is a situational player who gets exploited in the playoffs and sounds closer to, I dunno, Dewayne Dedmon than Al Horford.http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26562658/missouri-jontay-porter-enter-nba-draft
Jontay reminds me of a less fit, more injury prone, not as likely to marry a 6'2" Miss Universe (@ AmeliaVega) version of Al Horford.
I know his injury history, but I would still draft him with the LAC/BOS pick.
I'm all aboard the Goga hype train.Mike Schmitz is a really good NBA draft follow and he posted this clip on Goga Bitadze. You definitely get a Marc Gasol vibe from him; he'd be an interesting draft-and-stash candidate with the Sacramento pick if they don't move it for an AD (or whoever) package.
Thanks for brightening my day there, sunshine!I just ran the Tankathon Draft Simulator and the first run had Anthony Davis landing in Dallas, Jarret Culver ending in Memphis, and the Hawks getting fucked in the ass as New York, Cleveland, and Phoenix failed to snag a top four pick. And that would so consistent with the Hawks' franchise fortunes that it's probably how the lottery turns out.
But getting a 2-4 pick is one of the best possible outcomes for the MEM pick, so I’m ecstatic to frontload that.I just realized that if we jump up with the Sac pick the Memphis pick will also convey. That kinda sucks.
Really hard to get value on those (relative to the NFL), just because there the gap between even 5 draft slots is so massive in terms of expected outcomes, and no one will trade anything unprotected anymore. The Celtics would have loved to do this in 2016, but had to settle for draft+stashing Yabu and Zizic.Is there much of a market for trading picks for future picks? Not great draft and all, for teams that don't have a pick this year, I would think they might be interested in trading a future pick (with protections of course) for one of the Celtics picks.
100% speculation/logical guess.Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress 21m21 minutes ago
Auburn's Chuma Okeke has elected to sign with an agent and keep his name in the NBA Draft, a source told ESPN. He will not be participating in the NBA Combine, as previously reported. It appears that Okeke feels comfortable with where he's positioned in this draft.
Didn't he just tear an ACL? How exactly would he have participated in the NBA Combine?Jonathan Givony @DraftExpress 21m21 minutes ago
Auburn's Chuma Okeke has elected to sign with an agent and keep his name in the NBA Draft, a source told ESPN. He will not be participating in the NBA Combine, as previously reported. It appears that Okeke feels comfortable with where he's positioned in this draft.
Measurements and the intense interviews that teams deliver that week. If he does have a promise the GM making the promise wouldn’t want him impressing another team during any portion of this process.Didn't he just tear an ACL? How exactly would he have participated in the NBA Combine?