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2018-19 College Hoops Game Thread

Discussion in 'College Sports' started by Deathofthebambino, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. bsj

    bsj Renegade Crazed Genius SoSH Member

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    Terrible loss for Syracuse. 10 point line felt too big for these two, but I had no doubt that Syracuse has more talent on the roster. But they played TERRIBLE (as they do at least one big non con every single season), UConn played excellent, and Boeheim was badly outcoached. Zero ability to adjust on the fly to a team that could not miss a jumper

    Syracuse is one of the 10 most talented teams in the country. But as they do every goddamn year, they will bury themselves early and have to scrape their way back to a 4 or 5 seed in the tourney.

    Honestly, yesterday felt like a Celtics game. Tons of talented players with no clue how to play together.
     
  2. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Last night's SU-UConn game.....

    - SU really missed Howard in this one. They were out of sorts, especially early on. They needed their floor general and his absence really hurt.

    - UConn played with great energy and played great on-ball defense. Give them credit. Hurley had them in great position.

    - UConn got a career night from a very mediocre-at-best player (Cobb) - they'll probably never see that kind of game from him again, nor should they count on it.

    - UConn shot nearly 60% from three, many of those well beyond NBA range. If you do that, it's almost impossible to lose. You just can't game plan for that - for either team. You can't have your game plan be, "...and we will need to shoot 12-21 from three to win", and conversely, you just can't set up your game plan expecting the other team to shoot that well. UConn shot 7-21 (33.3%) and 12-27 (44.4%) for a total of 19-48 (39.6%) from three their first two games against lesser teams coming into last night's game. If they shot merely *really good* from three last night (say, 9-21, 42.9%), they lose. Instead, they were out of their minds. It happens. Rarely, but it happens.

    - I cannot believe that SU continues to run that ridiculous pick and roll with Sidibe or Chukwu 25 feet from the basket. UConn rightly doubled the ball-handler, ignoring the big setting the pick. Why? Because Sidibe and Chukwu have no offensive talent, and the double team makes it so hard to get them the ball. The reason NBA pick and rolls work is because the guy setting the screen has offensive ability and can shoot from the outside. You can't double Irving off a P&R and leave Horford open from three, for example, or he'll bury it. Boeheim is a hall of fame coach and all I've ever done is coach at the high school level, but my goodness this seems like a major blind spot for him. Run the P&R with Brissett and Battle, so if they double Battle, they leave a talented scorer wide open. Make them pay for the double team. Or run it with Hughes or Brissett handling the ball and having a smaller guy (Battle or Howard when he returns) setting the screen. Just don't keep running the same pointless P&R with their offensively-inept 7-foot centers setting screens 25 feet from the basket. This is such a simple, obvious adjustment that I cannot for the life of me understand why they don't make it. I think I saw one Battle/Brissett P&R last night but that was when both Chukwu and Sidibe were out.

    - Please for the love of God can someone - ANYONE - on Syracuse please TRY to box out. I know it's hard to box out on a zone. But watch the game carefully. They NEVER try to box out. They never try to find a guy to put a body on. If there's one right next to them maybe they'll fight. But otherwise they always just turn and look at the hoop and hope their length and athleticism will win the boards. It doesn't. And it's really not THAT hard to coach. Again, Boeheim is a wildly successful coach and they win a ton so who am I to critique. But when they allow 13 offensive rebounds, that gives the opponent 13 more chances to score. Assume they make 5 of them - that's 10 points or more given up just because they don't rebound defensively. You have to play GREAT defense to make up those 10+ points. It's infuriating and demoralizing to play great defense for 33 seconds and force a tough shot only to let the other team get the offensive rebound and go back to work. If you go to the espn game box score page and click on videos, watch the Cobb made three (which was astonishing enough as it is). The shot goes up and not a SINGLE Syracuse player even TRIES to find a guy to box out. They all just stand there watching, while UConn sends several players to the rim. Of course the shot went in so they didn't allow an offensive rebound but they don't even give boxing out an effort, and then Boeheim laments that they got killed on the boards. Hey Jim, this has been going on ever since you started playing the 2-3 zone. Maybe you should instruct your players to give boxing out at least half an effort!

    Ok rant over. Frustrating loss, but probably not a big deal when all is said and done. UConn did play very well and I think Hurley is a terrific hire for them. They're going to be fine.
     
  3. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    Uconn also turned it over 20 times against a passive zone and shot 15-23 from the line, including missing front end of three 1x1s. the game could have just as easily been a 15 point spread. and I'm guessing you expect to get 26 from Carey every night?

    Syracuse is getting worked again tonight. Their defense has been mediocre and their effort worse. Maybe Battle is a bit of a dog? Brissette is not a team leader, and if they take on Battle's ethic that could be bad
     
  4. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Well SU's zone isn't "passive". They are long and have limbs everywhere and it's very common for teams to have a ton of turnovers against them. That's normal.

    No I don't expect 26 from Carey. I also don't expect 3-15 from Brissett (though you wouldn't know it from tonight either).

    Right now, Syracuse just looks like a bad basketball team. They play SO dumb. Seem to have no clue offensively right now. They can't shoot, don't even try to box out, make bad passes. Otherwise, they're great.

    They might, two weeks into the season, have the same number of losses as the football team does in about 40 minutes. Who'd ever have imagined that?
     
  5. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    did you watch the game? its the worst zone I've seen Cuse play in years. Uconn got the ball to the middle so easily that they actually started putting jalen Adams at foul line extended because it was so easy to get the ball there and he could make better passes out to open three point shooters.
     
  6. LeftyTG

    LeftyTG Member SoSH Member

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    Hall of Fame coach that hangs on too long? That always ends well.

    Syracuse is in the last years of Bowden phase at FSU. People love the tournament runs but overlook the fact that Syracuse has been average - at best - the last several years and recruiting has slipped between the sanctions and uncertainty about how long Boeheim will continue. The team is very predictable and old fashioned on offense and Boeheim doesn't seem eager to adjust and change.

    They won't be this bad all year, and it may not be this year, but this is going to end ugly. I really wish they had ripped off the bandaid and transitioned to Hopkins a few years ago.
     
  7. BaseballJones

    BaseballJones goalpost mover SoSH Member

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    Yes I watched it, unfortunately. UConn made a ton of shots from beyond NBA range. And you don't watch Syracuse enough if you think that was the worst zone they've played in years. UConn has gotten open looks from three tonight and is 0-7 at the moment. Based on their first three and a half games, it's pretty obvious that last night's shooting was a total aberration by UConn.

    But yeah you're right - SU looks really bad right now. Not just "looks" really bad. They ARE really bad right now. No argument there.
     
  8. snowmanny

    snowmanny Well-Known Member Gold Supporter SoSH Member

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  9. bsj

    bsj Renegade Crazed Genius SoSH Member

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    This feels extreme (if for no other reason than because at the end of the day the tournament runs DO compensate for many of the other issues) although i do see your point. That said, it is pretty clear he will leave when Buddy does. I hope they begin transitioning soon. Recruiting has still been ok insofar as across the board talent but too much is at the 2 and the 3. Not enough depth or marquis talent at 1 and 5. Too many scorers, not enough playmakers, if that makes sense.
     
  10. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Um Nova lost to Furman
     
  11. DukeSox

    DukeSox Rick Derris SoSH Member

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    you'll see this. teams get hot for a couple years then go back to what they've always been. Florida in the mid 2000s, Villanova in the mid/late 2010s, etc
     
  12. uk_sox_fan

    uk_sox_fan Member SoSH Member

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    UConn for about 15 years...
     
  13. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    #8 Auburn currently trying to hang with Duke in the semi-final in Maui. They are down 8 with 7:43 left in the 2nd half. Zion has looked a bit like a Freshman today, and Duke got into some early foul trouble.

    Duke hasn't been behind in any game this year after the 15 second mark of any game. Let's see what happens if Auburn can pull in front at some point.
     
  14. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Duke offense really bogging down here late in the game, lot of turnovers, but they are still maintaining a 7 point lead with 2:31 left, mostly because their Junior, Marques Bolden, has been blocking everything Auburn tries to shoot in the paint. He's got 7 blocks tonight, and I think 5 have come in the last 5 minutes. Amazing stuff.
     
  15. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Hopefully Gonzaga takes care of business against Arizona and we can get what we all want tomorrow.
     
  16. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Duke "hangs" on and wins by 7 or whatever. Duke played as bad as I've seen them play on offense so far this year, but they still scored 78 with ease. Some team is going to have to play perfect basketball, and Duke is going to have to have a really bad game in order for anyone to beat them, IMO.

    Hopefully, Gonzaga beats Arizona next, and we'll get to see the Zags match up with Duke in the finale. That should be a good test.

    Edit: or what Red just said...
     
  17. Deathofthebambino

    Deathofthebambino Drive Carefully SoSH Member

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    Something called Lipscomb beat #18 TCU at home today...
     
  18. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Lipscomb won 23 games last year and was an NCAA tourney team. They are a real solid mid-major.
     
  19. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Yeah, the closest this game got was a 5 point margin at 61-56 with 8:20 to play, but Duke hit a 3 < 10 seconds later to push it back to 8. The lead was 8-12 for basically the rest of the game. IIRC, Auburn didn't have a single possession for the last 35 minutes of the game where they even had an opportunity to make it a 1 score game, let alone tie or take the lead. Every time they cut it to 5 or 6 Duke scored on their immediate next possession. So there was a little bit of game pressure on Duke last night, but not a ton.

    I bet Duke comes out tonight and wins bigger against Gonzaga. Not a blowout, but a more comfortable 12-16 point win.
     
  20. DukeSox

    DukeSox Rick Derris SoSH Member

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    So Duke will play the #2, 8 and 3 teams in the country in a couple week period. Who was saying the OOC schedule was soft?????
     
  21. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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  22. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    It's not soft but they don't have a true road game until January. Great if you can get that kind of schedule.
     
  23. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Not uncommon for Duke in years which they are home for the Big 10 challenge
     
  24. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    Didn't say it was not uncommon. Just great if you can operate like that. It's a huge advantage.
     
  25. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Eh the more experience in hostile environments the better IMO
     
  26. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    The environments last night and tonight is just as good as a true road game.
     
  27. JCizzle

    JCizzle Member SoSH Member

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    Gonzaga looks great so far
     
  28. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    not really a surprise Duke team defense is struggling. Athletically they are elite but within the team concept they are all freshmen and will learn to play help and switch. Zags are hitting shots so there hasn't been a ton of transition dunks and layups. Duke rebounding has kept them in the game, as has Jones, who's been great and maybe Duke's best player in Hawaii. Let's see if Gonzaga can continue to score at such a high rate

    color me less than masturbatory about Zion's game.
     
  29. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Duke will improve from this but the lesson is that experience still trumps pure talent in college hoops. Villanova, UNC, Gonzaga all have programs built on guys playing there 3-4 years. That is also much more fun to follow as a fan than this one and done crap. Yay Tatum and Kyrie and Jabari and Ingram and Rivers and blah blah blah all “went to Duke”. Yawn. Give me the Duke 2010 team any day of the week.
     
  30. normstalls

    normstalls Member SoSH Member

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    Really fun game. Dukes energy is impressive
     
  31. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Waaaaay too much 1:1 from Barrett the last minute. That may or may not be on the coaching staff but he didn’t pass their last 3 possessions.
     
  32. mikeot

    mikeot Member SoSH Member

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    Zag win a victory for your kind of program, yes?
     
  33. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    In fairness to me, I didn’t see the Auburn/Gonzaga games on the schedule when I checked.
     
  34. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Yep. Barrett going 1:5 the last 3 possessions was awesome. Super fun.
     
  35. wibi

    wibi Member SoSH Member

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    So ... Yeah ... New #1?
     
  36. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    Duke beats that team by 12-15 in the final four

    pretty indicative of who the alpha dog is on that team when they defer to Barrett
     
  37. wibi

    wibi Member SoSH Member

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    Assuming they both make the final four I'd happily take that bet that Gonzaga either wins or loses by less than 10
     
  38. DukeSox

    DukeSox Rick Derris SoSH Member

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    Gonzaga was more up for that game than the natty a few (no pun intended) years ago against unc, which says something.

    Didn’t want to be Kentucky in ‘15 anyway
     
  39. uk_sox_fan

    uk_sox_fan Member SoSH Member

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    So you're saying that UNC runs their program "the right way"? LOL

    I think all fans of college basketball would prefer a system where the students are compensated and incentivised to stay at least 3 years but that's not the case anymore. (A program whereby insurance premia are sponsored by the NCAA and the NBA would use age rather than NBA experience as the criteria for arbitration and free agency would certainly help). But until then I'd rather see the best one-and-dones go through Duke than UK where'd they'd all go otherwise so there's that.

    Great game last night. Duke will be better for it but of course Gonzaga will too especially after they get Tillie back. Just a shame that after the next 3 1/2 weeks during which they'll play Creighton (away), Washington (home), Tennessee (in Phoenix) and UNC (away) they'll have no one to play in the top 50 until late March. By contrast Duke and UNC will have as many as 17 more such games by then and Kansas might have 20.
     
  40. uk_sox_fan

    uk_sox_fan Member SoSH Member

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    I don't quite understand the 'in fairness to me' argument when your defense is that you didn't make the effort to look at their schedule properly before asserting they were playing a bunch of cupcakes.

    Right now according to KenPom Duke has played the 24th hardest SOS and is the only team in the Top 100 whose SOS is in the Top 40. The highest ranked teams with a harder SOS thus far than Duke are No. 115 Fresno St (4), No. 121 Vermont (18) and No. 123 Louisiana-Lafayette (16). Of those 3 teams the most impressive victory is UVM's home win over No. 117 Yale.

    note: Sagarin has Kansas (21) and Auburn (27) with tougher SOS than Duke (32)

    Both Pomeroy and Sagarin have Duke still ranked No. 1 after the loss though I agree that the Zags deserve to take the top slot in the polls after the win.
     
  41. rguilmar

    rguilmar lurker

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    I’m guessing that the schedule didn’t have Auburn or Gonzaga on Duke’s schedule because those games were in the Maui Invitational, where opponents are determined by results. Those opponents were not known until each team had won previous games, so they weren’t on the schedule.
     
  42. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    True, but easy to project forward.

    Barrett went 0-5 in the last 57 seconds. Zion had zero touches after he tied it with 1:45 left. I put that on the coaching staff... but that being said, is there a chance that K was letting Barrett kind of do what he wanted, in hopes he would learn a lesson? Zion is probably holding him accountable today, right? To not get another touch... Barrett was going 1 on 5 for the entire last minute. It was selfish, bad basketball. I felt like after he tried it once or twice the coaching staff would try to actually run a play for someone else, but they kept letting Barrett do it. Was it intentional? If so, is that the right approach, so they learn? Or was it just bad coaching - should they have corrected it? I don't think winning a game in November is of utmost importance, learning and gaining more experience is more important, but after a guy fails 1-2-3 times... don't you have to call a real play for someone else? I am conflicted.
     
  43. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    Duh obviously not. I'd just rather root for veteran teams. You say that since this is the way things are, you'd rather see the one and dones go through Duke and UK. I think that the other programs I cited are examples that getting 3-4 year players can work just as well, if not better. Hell, the 2010 Duke team was still very much a part of the one and done era, but they were led by a ton of 3-4 year players: Singler, Scheyer, Smith, Zoubek, Thomas. I'd much rather watch that model than watch one and done.
     
  44. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    I was looking at the Yahoo sports app. It wasn’t there. Sorry I didn’t “make the effort”. You guys are a treasure.
     
  45. BigSoxFan

    BigSoxFan Member SoSH Member

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    This is exactly it. Yahoo made no mention of the tournament and, not being a Duke fan, I had no idea they were even in the tournament.
     
  46. Clears Cleaver

    Clears Cleaver Lil' Bill SoSH Member

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    K has a history in big spots of letting his "best" player go ISO. it usually fails. At least against Uconn :)

    seriously, there were four freshmen on the floor. his teammates didn't exactly do anything but clear out. Duke has had huge success going to matchups and maybe K/staff throughout Barrett was best option
     
  47. tims4wins

    tims4wins PN23's replacement SoSH Member

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    I had no problem with Barrett driving, but he never looked to pass. Unsure who to put that on. Reddish was open on one, Jones on another.

    Edit: and letting Langdon go 1:1 was so fucking dumb
     
  48. Greg29fan

    Greg29fan Member SoSH Member

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    If you're a fan of basketball that will put you to sleep, Virginia and Wisconsin are playing in the Atlantis final tomorrow.
     
  49. garlan5

    garlan5 Member SoSH Member

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    Unless you like defense. Go Hoos

    Edit: I have a hard time watching teams with no defense. I guess I'm biased
    UVA is near the top in team efficiency. Sit back and enjoy DeAndre Hunter. I think the Wisconsin game is gonna be really good and a tough test for UVA.
     
    #99 garlan5, Nov 22, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  50. RedOctober3829

    RedOctober3829 Member SoSH Member

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    UNC-Texas is a good one on FS1. UNC is down 4 with 2 mins left but going to the line for 3 shots.
     

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