2014 Seattle Seahawks: Bittersweet Symphony

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GBrushTWood

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Soxy Brown said:
The 2014 Seattle defense is very good, probably the best in the league.  But I'm not convinced they are a historically great or dominant unit.  Even with a hobbled Rodgers, I expect Green Bay will give them all they can handle this Sunday.
 
Unquestionably a valid point. The counterargument to this, however, is that they played different without Wagner and Chancellor healthy during the mid-October to mid-November timeline. Thus, the numbers for 2014 may not fully represent the level they are playing at now. Maybe they do, we shall see.
 
Overall though, if both the Seahawks and Pats take care of business this weekend, I think it's going to take a "2001 Pats-Rams Super Bowl" or "1990 Bills-Giants SB" type of game plan from Belichick to topple Seattle. Could be really fun to watch, especially if Seattle is considered the favorite going in.
 

kolbitr

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Question for our Hawks' brethren: is DC Quinn itching for a HC job? Given that he has presided over an "arguably" historically-great defensive unit, he has gotten plenty of interest...but with success comes delays. I recall the turmoil surrounding the Buddy Ryan departure from the Bears in early '86; if I remember correctly, the story goes that Ryan confirmed the rumours that he was leaving to the defensive players, the room was quiet for a while, and then Dan Hampton through a chair against a wall...and the next day is history. That doesn't seem to be about to happen this year, but I'm curious if there is thought that he will leave if possible, where that might be, and if Hawks fans are worried that the D will decline with his departure. Thoughts?
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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GBrushTWood said:
Overall though, if both the Seahawks and Pats take care of business this weekend, I think it's going to take a "2001 Pats-Rams Super Bowl" or "1990 Bills-Giants SB" type of game plan from Belichick to topple Seattle. Could be really fun to watch, especially if Seattle is considered the favorite going in.
That seems like an exaggeration. The Rams were favored in that game by 14, while I'd imagine the Seahawks would be favored over the Patriots by about a field goal. And I don't think it would take some kind of mad genius game plan to beat them - the Pats would spread the field and throw a lot to Gronk and Vereen on offense and they wouldprobably play the heavy 5-2 front on defense to stop Beastmode, mix their coverages (maybe more zone than against some other opponents), and focus on keeping Wilson in the pocket when he passes. I'm not saying that the Hawks aren't a great team but I think the matchup is pretty close and would likely come down to execution on both sides not some outside-the-box game plan.

I'm going to shut up now before I jinx the Colts game.
 

coremiller

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
That seems like an exaggeration. The Rams were favored in that game by 14, while I'd imagine the Seahawks would be favored over the Patriots by about a field goal. And I don't think it would take some kind of mad genius game plan to beat them - the Pats would spread the field and throw a lot to Gronk and Vereen on offense and they wouldprobably play the heavy 5-2 front on defense to stop Beastmode, mix their coverages (maybe more zone than against some other opponents), and focus on keeping Wilson in the pocket when he passes. I'm not saying that the Hawks aren't a great team but I think the matchup is pretty close and would likely come down to execution on both sides not some outside-the-box game plan.I'm going to shut up now before I jinx the Colts game.
Agree, plus there's the obvious difference that this Pats team is much better (at least on paper) than the 01 team. 01 Brady vs 14 Brady alone is a huge difference.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Against Rodgers, P. Manning, Romo and Rivers (top 10 by DVOA), the Seahawks D gave up a passer rating of 97.17 and 23.5 ppg. They went 2-2 in those games.

To be fair, they were all early in the season, and I'm not sure how healthy the D was. And of course, you'd expect to do worse against better quarterbacks. But those numbers suggest some hope for teams with elite passing games. I'll dig deeper this evening.
 

bakahump

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I  know I know Video games.....
 
But that 91 Eagles Defense was insane in Madden.   If they had had Cunningham all year I think they win the SB in 91. No way they finish behind Dallas.  And if they make it in they beat  Detroit (Despite Sanders) and Washington and them its a street fight that I think goes either way.
 
Front 7 to include  Simmons White, Brown and Joyner
 
Back 4 including Otis Smith, Eric Allen and Andre Waters.
 
Jerome Browns last year.   He was a stud and coulda been an all time great.  Sad Story.
 

coremiller

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I'm not sure they could have beaten Washington, even with Cunningham.  91 Wash was one of the best teams ever, the highest ranked team in the history of DVOA.  Washington was 1st overall, 1st in offense, 1st in pass offense, 9th in run offense, 3rd in defense, 3rd in pass defense, 8th in run defense, and 1st in special teams.  They really had no weaknesses.
 
OTOH, Philly's offense was ranked 6th in 1990 with Cunnigham with 11.1% DVOA (the year he had 3011 yards passing and 949 yards rushing), and 26th in 1991 without him with -24.6% DVOA.  Combine Philly's 1990 offense with its 1991 defense and special teams and you have a team with 53.6% DVOA that almost matches Washington's [SIZE=14.4444446563721px]record[/SIZE][SIZE=14.4444446563721px] [/SIZE]DVOA of 56.9%.  It sure would have been a great fight.
 
Sorry for the 91 Eagles thread drift ...
 

bakahump

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Washington may have been taking the "extra Bye"......but in week 17 of that year the Eagles Beat the Skins (granted in Philly).  With Jeff Kemp as the Qb.....
 
Agreed sorry about the Drift.
 

Tony C

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GBrushTWood said:
 
Unquestionably a valid point. The counterargument to this, however, is that they played different without Wagner and Chancellor healthy during the mid-October to mid-November timeline. Thus, the numbers for 2014 may not fully represent the level they are playing at now. Maybe they do, we shall see.
 
Overall though, if both the Seahawks and Pats take care of business this weekend, I think it's going to take a "2001 Pats-Rams Super Bowl" or "1990 Bills-Giants SB" type of game plan from Belichick to topple Seattle. Could be really fun to watch, especially if Seattle is considered the favorite going in.
 
I expect both the Pats and Hawks to win, and if so really anticipating the match-up. Two best coaches in the league in my humble opinion (and actually my two favorite teams), and I suspect the Hawks will be a TD favorite. Love the idea of BB as underdog game planning against a team with the obvious strengths of the Hawks. Always more fun to be the underdog.
 

Ed Hillel

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The Hawks would not be a TD favorite unless Gronk/Revis get injured. It's probably 3 points, maybe 3.5. In their fear of Seattle, people seem to be forgetting how good this Pats team is.
 
I think we're all jinxing this to Packers/Colts at this point.
 

johnmd20

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Ed Hillel said:
The Hawks would not be a TD favorite unless Gronk/Revis get injured. It's probably 3 points, maybe 3.5. In their fear of Seattle, people seem to be forgetting how good this Pats team is.
 
I think we're all jinxing this to Packers/Colts at this point.
 
I'm guessing that matchup would be very close to a pick 'em.
 

steveluck7

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Ed Hillel said:
The Hawks would not be a TD favorite unless Gronk/Revis get injured. It's probably 3 points, maybe 3.5. In their fear of Seattle, people seem to be forgetting how good this Pats team is.
 
I think we're all jinxing this to Packers/Colts at this point.
On Felger and Mazz yeserday, Beetle had the different lines. Don't remember where he got them but they had seattle -2.5 (or 3) against NE and NE - 3.5 against GB
edit: beaten
 

Stitch01

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Yeah I expect it will actually open -2.5 to -4 if that's the matchup depending on what happens this weekend, Seattle -7 would be ludicrous.  Love the Pats getting a field goal if that's where we end up, that game seems like a real coinflip to me.
 
If Stork can go, I actually like the way the Pats matchup with Seattle pretty well at first thought. 
 

DanoooME

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johnmd20 said:
 
I'm guessing that matchup would be very close to a pick 'em.
 
I would agree with this.  I can't see it being much more than 3 unless no one wants to bet on the Pats for whatever reason.  And 7 would be insane unless one of the QBs got hurt and would miss the game.
 

DanoooME

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Skittles-munching, nut-grabbing Beast?  Yeah, that makes sense.  Gotta love the Japanese.
 
I need a gif of the last few seconds where Lynch shreds Goodell and grabs his crotch.
 

Burt Reynoldz

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Hi folks.  Been a while.  Nice to see Danoooo still rolling around here.
 
Haven't visited this forum much for a couple years, but since the Seahawks are matched up against the Pats, I figured it was time for a return. 
 
Cheers.
 

DanoooME

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HOLY SHIT!  HE LIVES!  Welcome back, man!  Hawkz fanz are always welcome.
 
Looking forward to some of your insights in here.
 

Burt Reynoldz

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It's weird, I switched jobs a while back and couldn't get on the site at work, so I more or less forgot this place existed.  Even after switching jobs again, when I could get on SoSH, I never got around to contributing again.
 
Anyway, the NFC championship nearly killed me last weekend, and I'm getting "JON RYAN" tattooed across my upper back. 
 
Ultimately, the thing that worries me most about the Super Bowl is whether Seattle's interior line can get anything done.  Losing Mebane was a killer, but then Hill really stepped up and showed the promise we'd been hearing so much about.  Of course, then he goes down...and in the playoffs, while our DTs haven't been a glaring weakness, they're also not putting the pressure on that Mebane and Hill did.  I'd feel a lot better against the Pats if I wasn't so certain they'd just focus their o-line on the edges and trust that the DTs won't be able to pressure Brady.  Well, that, and whether Sherman and Thomas can play without their arms falling off.
 

dynomite

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Didn't want this game to come and go without saying something here. Not sure if any of you are interested, but here goes:

As a lifelong Patriots fan, I went into Super Bowl week(s) not knowing much about the Seahawks. I mean, I had obviously watched a number of their games over the last 3 years, and I was aware of many of the players, but I never really spent much time thinking about the team. Most of my Seahawks memories are from the early 1990s and involve Rick Mirer.

Anyway, as an outsider really focusing on the Seahawks for the first time over the past 2 weeks, here's my conclusion: I REALLY like this team.

I was surprised by this realization, but it's true... even though I hope the Patriots win by 45 points tomorrow.

- Carroll: Obviously it starts here with a former Patriots coach. He infuriated me at times while coaching the Patriots, and although I don't follow college football I understand he had a somewhat dubious departure from USC. Still, after watching him this week, I have been deeply impressed with him and his defensive schemes. The guy just seems to have so much fun coaching football and seems to genuinely love his players. Maybe I'm a sucker, but I loved his self-depricating asides during the joint presser with Belichick ("My therapist tells me to talk about getting fired a lot.").

- Wilson: He's just an incredibly impressive young QB. Outside of that bizarre meltdown against the Packers, he's been amazingly consistent and solid. He rarely tries to do more than he should, he doesn't make many mistakes, and he also seems willing to take a shot downfield when the situation is right. And as the FC guys highlighted earlier this year, a few times a season he'll just do something a QB shouldn't be able to do -- evade 5 rushers, wiggle out of a few tackles, and make an incredible play. Take that 2-point conversion against the Packers in the NFCCG, for instance. That play has been overlooked in the aftermath of that game, but 1) the Seahawks would be golfing right now if it hadn't worked (the Packers FG would have won the game), and 2) how many other QBs have the presence of mind to chuck it up instead of throwing it away there? It went against every instinct for a QB, but on those plays he remembered that there was no negative consequence. Incredibly impressive.

- Lynch: He's just such a pleasure to watch run. He's everything an RB should be -- he's tough, he's elusive, he's fast, he's intimidating. I always regretted that I never got to watch Earl Campbell play, but I imagine it was something sort of akin to watching Lynch truck defenders and create his own running lanes.

- "Legion of Boom": I like their swagger off the field and most especially love their discipline on it. To my mind they aren't anything like, say, the Jets, who for the last few years have seemed to me to be a bunch of loudmouths who are all bark and no bite (laying down to the Bills in that snow game in Detroit, for instance). Watching them on film, I'm just so impressed by everything that Chancellor, Thomas, and Sherman do. They're so precise with their routes and in general they're so smart about playing defense. And while I should probably hate Sherman's antics, I found myself giggling while watching his Sound F/X last weekend -- he was yawning while covering Joe Webb on the Vikings, telling him it was a "Waste of my time." Hell, watching Chancellor time the Panthers FG snaps and leapfrog the center on two consecutive plays was one of the most amazing sequences in the NFL this season. They're just fun to watch.

So... anyway.

I hope the Seahawks are down by 45 in the first quarter and forfeit the game at the some point out of embarrassment... but damn do I respect this team.

In other words:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmTK_eSOCN4[/youtube]
 

Tony C

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Pretty much my feeling, too, though Sherman is wearing on me a bit. But a pretty classy outfit and nice to see Pete get his due. And Marshawn on Conan won me over, and especially this week love how he basically tells the media to go f themselves with their idiocies.
 
That said, kick their fucking asses.
 
p.s.: in re Wilson stinking it up vs GB, I thought Simmons made a decent point that there's a good chance he was concussed after that hit from Matthews.
 

soxfan121

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Pete Carroll's post game interview on NFL Network is OUTSTANDING. Explains what he was thinking, why, what happened and does it with class and dignity. 
 
This Seahawks team was fucking great and they were a whisker away from a repeat. Nothing but respect.
 

Devizier

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soxfan121 said:
Pete Carroll's post game interview on NFL Network is OUTSTANDING. Explains what he was thinking, why, what happened and does it with class and dignity. 
 
This Seahawks team was fucking great and they were a whisker away from a repeat. Nothing but respect.
 
I'm with you here, but I think we're the only ones.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Pete Carroll is an amazing coach who did an incredible job this year. They made a call to win the down rather than win the game and it cost them when a rookie defender made a great, great play and a young receiver failed to attack the ball because he saw that the WR pick was successful and he never thought Butler would be there. SF 121 is right, Pete Manned up in the interview, while Darell Bevell wasn't shy about throwing Lockette under the bus. 
 
As for next year, there is no reason they cannot be back. They have ~$20M in cap room. They have to pay Russell Wilson, Jeremy Lane and Bobby Wagner. Byron Maxwell is the best FA they probably want to keep, but I imagine they will not pay more than $4M to keep him. It really is all about Wilson though, if they give him the $20M he probably deserves, they will be capped out for 15 after they pay their guys and draft new players. Seeing how they have developed players and locked up their key defensive talent, they will take that. 
 
 
The interesting decision is Lynch. His cap # is $8.5M if they keep him, and they save $7M against the cap if they cut him... which would give them the flexibility to sign other FAs that they probably don't have after they pay Wilson & Wagner. Tough call, I would keep him. I wonder how much Ted Thompson Schneider has in him, Green Bay would cut Lynch. 
 

jsinger121

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This is an amazing team and easily could have been champions. This team will be back.
 

JMDurron

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soxfan121 said:
Pete Carroll's post game interview on NFL Network is OUTSTANDING. Explains what he was thinking, why, what happened and does it with class and dignity. 
 
This Seahawks team was fucking great and they were a whisker away from a repeat. Nothing but respect.
 
 
Devizier said:
 
I'm with you here, but I think we're the only ones.
 
You're not alone.  I think last year's Super Bowl and how he conducted himself throughout the last 2 weeks including tonight have completely changed my mind on Pete Carroll.  I was definitely on the "screw that guy for being the downturn between Parcells and BB, then leaving USC before the hammer fell" bandwagon, but he has put together a really impressive team in Seattle, with a very distinct style to my untrained eye.  That style means taking chances like the TD pass to end the 1st half, and the INT to lose the game at the end.  It's just who he is, and sometimes it bites him in the ass.  
 
These were two evenly matched teams that played a great Super Bowl, and the Patriots happened to get the last "WTF just happened?" play to go their way at the end, thanks to a great play from an unheralded player.  I have a ton of respect for that team, especially given what they accomplished after ditching their most heralded weapon in the passing game.  
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Class all around. As Kraft mentioned during his NFL Now appearance it's incredibly to have the victory snatched away ("I've been through it twice"). 
 
Although it won't help like nothing helped during the previous Pats SB losses, I do want to say thank you for keeping this thread going and contributing to a team that we all don't know enough about -- as successful as they are. 
 
No other team in the league has the nucleus that the Seahawks do. I would be shocked if they are not back within two years, if not next year.
 

Tony C

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soxfan121 said:
Pete Carroll's post game interview on NFL Network is OUTSTANDING. Explains what he was thinking, why, what happened and does it with class and dignity. 
 
This Seahawks team was fucking great and they were a whisker away from a repeat. Nothing but respect.
 
 
Devizier said:
 
I'm with you here, but I think we're the only ones.
 
me three or four or whatever. Good to have a class opponent...Bruce Irvin sucker punch at the end excluded, but otherwise lots of respect for them.
 

Dummy Hoy

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I thought this was the best team the Pats have played in 6 Bowls. I think the 04 Eagles are next, with the (soft) 01 Rams third. Just  a beast.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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blueguitar322 said:
Fully expect Hawks-Pats rematch next year.  
Hawks are done. They have to extend Wilson, but he makes less than 1% of the current team salary. They have pretty much no one at WR. Sherman has messed ligaments may need TJ surgery. They're not winning the NFC next year.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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soxfan121 said:
Pete Carroll's post game interview on NFL Network is OUTSTANDING. Explains what he was thinking, why, what happened and does it with class and dignity. 
 
This Seahawks team was fucking great and they were a whisker away from a repeat. Nothing but respect.
This is the guy I want replacing BB
 

Ed Hillel

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They just said on ESPN that Sherman may need Tommy John. Not sure how that impacts a football player. I would think he could be ready for the season?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Hawks are done. They have to extend Wilson, but he makes less than 1% of the current team salary. They have pretty much no one at WR. Sherman has messed ligaments may need TJ surgery. They're not winning the NFC next year.
 
That's a hot take that you'll most likely find yourself on the wrong side of the argument. They have $20m+ in cap and one of the best FO in the league. 
 
They are the true candidates for the next dynasty, not the Packers. 
 

ivanvamp

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Hawks are done. They have to extend Wilson, but he makes less than 1% of the current team salary. They have pretty much no one at WR. Sherman has messed ligaments may need TJ surgery. They're not winning the NFC next year.
 
And a pretty reasonable chance that Lynch doesn't return next year.
 
For the Pats, all we ever really asked was that they could play through the playoffs with a healthy Gronk.  Well, in the three postseason games, he had 16 rec, 208 yards, and 3 td. 
 
Not to mention terrific blocking and occupying defenders that helped free up other guys.  
 

jsinger121

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SeoulSoxFan said:
 
That's a hot take that you'll most likely find yourself on the wrong side of the argument. They have $20m+ in cap and one of the best FO in the league. 
 
They are the true candidates for the next dynasty, not the Packers. 
They will most definitely be back but wilson is sure to eat up much of that cap space.
 

Stitch01

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SeoulSoxFan said:
That's a hot take that you'll most likely find yourself on the wrong side of the argument. They have $20m+ in cap and one of the best FO in the league. 
 
They are the true candidates for the next dynasty, not the Packers.
They're the opening favorite by the betting line for next year just ahead of NE and GB
 

riboflav

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Many SoSHers giving credit to the classy Seahawks, but not a lot of class shown at the end of the game. If that were the Patriots trying to pick fights, a lot of butt hurt folks would rail.
 
Anyway, stay classy, Seattle.
 

tims4wins

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Seattle is a great team. Last night showed how freaking hard it is to win once, let alone twice.
 
However I agree that the complexion of their team is going to change when they have to pay Wilson $20M and it will definitely change if they let Beast go (which I think they should).
 
It's hard to get to the Super Bowl, and while the Hawks aren't going to all of a sudden miss the playoffs, I don't understand how they are the favorite to win it all next year in the books.
 

jsinger121

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tims4wins said:
Seattle is a great team. Last night showed how freaking hard it is to win once, let alone twice.
 
However I agree that the complexion of their team is going to change when they have to pay Wilson $20M and it will definitely change if they let Beast go (which I think they should).
 
It's hard to get to the Super Bowl, and while the Hawks aren't going to all of a sudden miss the playoffs, I don't understand how they are the favorite to win it all next year in the books.
 
Agree....If they have to dedicate 20 mil to Wilson and have to let Lynch go for any reason they won't be as good.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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The Hawks are a great team that made a ton of plays last night and did so while losing two key players during the game. They would have been deserved champs and will be back in this game soon.

Our resident Seahawks fans are also a classy group that make this forum a better place. I'm sorry that it had to be you guys on the other end of this kind of excruciating loss.
 

tims4wins

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Think about this chain of events:
 
WC Round: Detroit hosts Dallas, loses in total gutwrenching fashion
Divisional Round: Dallas travels to GB, loses in total gutwrenching fashion
Championship Round: GB travels to Seattle, loses in total gutwrenching fasion
Super Bowl: Seattle plays Pats, loses in total gutwrenching fasion
 
It's like karma went full circle.
 

teddykgb

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I'll post this here since very little of this post is of great interest to a Patriots fan today.  Russell Wilson is a very impressive QB.  The stats don't often jump off the page, but man that guy just makes plays.  The comparisons to a young Brady are apt in the sense that you feel like the guy is crazy lucky until you watch enough to see that he's consistently making the big play whenever it needs to be made.  Those downfield throws are accurate, timely, and good reads -- it's hard to say how much of that is scheme and how much is the QB, but they identified the openings and took their chances well with great throws to unheralded players.
 
The only part of the game that makes little sense to me is how little Wilson scrambled.  I'm sure the Patriots did a lot defensively to try to contain (especially on the option), but he made the Patriots most athletic linebacker look silly on more than one occasion in the game.  I'm legitimately surprised by how much they seem to want to keep him in the pocket and feel they're scarier and more dynamic when you have to truly consider that he's going to tuck it and run with frequency.  I understand wanting to develop him as a passer, but I think his ability to run makes him unique and far more effective.
 
Seattle are a very good team who will likely find themselves back in that game.  They got very unlucky with injuries at the wrong time and if you're being honest you have to admit that played a major part in the competitive balance of this matchup.  The Patriots have certainly been on the other end of that situation and this is part of winning and losing in the NFL.
 
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