2014 Jets: Report -- Rex & Idzik both to be let go
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Yes this is exactly what it is. Plausible deniability so when the next GM/HC pairing fail he can blame Charley and not himself.Ed Hillel said:
And the guy he gets hasn't been an executive in 8 years. Jets!Ed Hillel said:
I thought the major was a lady suffragette. Jets, Ooooh ooooh ooooooh. Jets!
By the way, for as much as Rex gets credit for getting his guys to play against the Pats, there have been a number of horrendously awful losses in key spots during his tenure in NY.
In 2009 the Jets finished 9-7 and in the playoffs but only one game behind the 10-6 Pats for the division title. During that season they lost to the 7-9 Dolphins twice, the 6-10 Bills and the 5-11 Jags. Win one of those games and they might have hosted a playoff game for the first time in almost a decade.
In 2011 they were 8-5 and in prime position to make the playoffs for a third straight year before losing their last three to the 8-8 Eagles, the 9-7 Giants and the 6-10 Dolphins.
In 2012 they were 6-7 and still theoretically in contention for a playoff spot before they lost their last three to the 6-10 Titans, the 7-9 Chargers and the 6-10 Bills.
In 2013 they were 5-4 and finished 3-4 to miss the playoff again, with losses against 8-8 Dolphins, 7-9 Titans and 6-10 Bills down the stretch with a playoff spot on the line.
In 2009 the Jets finished 9-7 and in the playoffs but only one game behind the 10-6 Pats for the division title. During that season they lost to the 7-9 Dolphins twice, the 6-10 Bills and the 5-11 Jags. Win one of those games and they might have hosted a playoff game for the first time in almost a decade.
In 2011 they were 8-5 and in prime position to make the playoffs for a third straight year before losing their last three to the 8-8 Eagles, the 9-7 Giants and the 6-10 Dolphins.
In 2012 they were 6-7 and still theoretically in contention for a playoff spot before they lost their last three to the 6-10 Titans, the 7-9 Chargers and the 6-10 Bills.
In 2013 they were 5-4 and finished 3-4 to miss the playoff again, with losses against 8-8 Dolphins, 7-9 Titans and 6-10 Bills down the stretch with a playoff spot on the line.
This is nothing new. Guess what happened when Idzik was hired. Yup -- a paid consulting group worked with Woody for weeks in getting their shiny new GM.Ed Hillel said:
Unlike Kraft, WJ has no intuition in hiring the right football people.
Ralphwiggum said:
He is a truly awful HC. I'm puzzled that he has pulled the wool over even some pats fans eyes who seem to buy into his act. I gave up on looking at Jets forums a few years ago because I could not believe how much love the dude got. He is like Stalin. If something goes right it is all on him, when things go bad it is everyone else's fault or even worse acts like the bad thing didn't happen. This motherfucker is famous for going into a presser after a loss and talking about how few yards the defense gave up. It is absolutely mind blowing. Hey Rex, how about the fact that the other team scored more points? Do you want to address that?
People who are at fault:
Schotty
Tanny,
Sanchez
Sparano
Idzik
Never Rex's fault. Never.
M
MentalDisabldLst
Guest
If anything this is a solid move. Unless Woody believes he has the expertise to determine the next great NFL coach or talent evaluator.MentalDisabldLst said:
If Casserly ends up like Dick Cheney on this one -- getting the job -- then maybe you want to say that Casserly was overrated as a GM. But from a process standpoint -- and that's what this should be about at this stage, process -- Casserly strikes me as a fine consultant.
And one of the first things he'll probably tell Woody is, if you don't trust Idzik to hire the next HC, then replace Idzik.
And one of the first things he'll probably tell Woody is, if you don't trust Idzik to hire the next HC, then replace Idzik.
Idzik was hired upon the recommendation of the exec recruiters, Korn/FerryMentalDisabldLst said:
Woody's now using a football guy.
Some Jets fans on TGG are looking at this as an indication that Idzik will be fired and Rex will be back. They're basing this on these quotes from Casserly from October
Exactly, incredibly puzzling that so many, even here, buy into his lousy record nit being reflective of Rex. Pure Teflon.luckiestman said:
In re Woody, smart to have a pro running the process . worth noting tho that Kraft has hired not just BB but also Pete. arguably the 2 best NFL coaches going. Not bad!
tims4wins said:
I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I couldn't let this overlooked point continue to go unnoticed.
With the 10th pick of the 2nd round of the 2010 NFL Draft, the New England Patriots select Rob Gronkowski, TE, Arizona.
Oops.
Hendu for Kutch said:
Don't let facts get in the way of a good ESPN click-bait. Shame on you.
On Casserly, I'd be jumping for joy if he follows through on keeping Rex as the HC.
It's like the Groundhog Day -- carry-over HC with obvious flaws, QB situation in turmoil (buh-bye Mariota/Winston), thin roster with disappearing cap room*, and most devastatingly, sub-par drafts that will continue to haunt this team this year and next. Yup, an ideal situation for the supposedly "up and coming" talent GM candidates that the Jets are apparently looking for.
First move I'm keeping an eye out for -- what to do with Harvin. Signing him was an odd move as it'll eat into next year's rollover $, and his lack of production along with never-ending injury concerns will make Idzik or new GM think twice about retaining him. Oh, and at a cost of a 4th rounder (instead of 6th) if he's on the roster for 2015.
* Next move: Wilkerson will need to be extended sooner than later. They're pushing this off, and the more they do the larger the bounty will be.
Bonus: the same group of Jets fans who saw a 10-6 playoff-bound team after their lucky season in 2013, and already looking forward to a yet another 10-6 playoff-bound squad in 2015 with a myriad of "if this happens.." and "if they get so-and-so..." etc. I see a 3-win improvement for a 6-10 doldrum of a campaign and yet another last-place finish no matter who the coach/GM is.
BigSoxFan said:
Kraft is also reported to play a very different ownership role than he did back then.
He learns. That's why he's on the short list for best sports team owner in not only the league, but in American sports.
There is no Rev said:
Admitting the mistake was the bigger deal; he's a smart guy. Smart guys often have trouble admitting a mistake. And he could have blamed it all on Parcells and been like most people. Instead, admitting the mistake, negotiating with Parcells for Belichick - those are big moments based in humility. Kraft atoned for his mistake; it's so rare as to be truly remarkable.
Let's say you're running the Jets and you have, say, the 2nd pick in the draft. Either Winston or Mariota will be available - a potential franchise quarterback. What do you need if you're the Jets? You've got a terrific defense, a really good running game, but could use a much better QB and a game-breaking WR. Would you simply draft Winston or Mariota? Or would you consider making this deal:
Trade Geno Smith and the #2 pick in the draft to KC for Alex Smith and KC's 1st round pick (say, #17), and 3rd round pick?
If you're the Jets, they could have won quite a few games this year with even *competent* QB play. Alex Smith is a competent NFL QB. Not great. But not too bad. 16th in the NFL in yards, 14th in QB rating. Pretty decent. Certainly a HECK of a lot better than Geno Smith. And with the 17th pick, they take one of the following WR: Dorial Green-Beckham (Oklahoma), Kevin White (WVU), or Jaelen Strong (Arizona St.), giving them a terrific outside weapon. And then the 3rd round pick could also be used to address skill position talent. One reason you do this is because Winston and Mariota both represent risks. And they've been through so many of these high draft pick QBs recently that it may be time to go with the "pretty solid QB, lots of talent elsewhere" approach.
For KC, the reason they do this is because you don't often get a shot at a potential franchise QB like Winston or Mariota. While Alex Smith is better than average (by a little), he's also not a star. They have lots of talent on that team and a QB like Winston or Mariota could be the guy to take them to the next level. It's a risk for sure. But this is the kind of risk you may want to take. And you get Geno Smith thrown in, and he provides a backup QB who still may end up being pretty decent as well.
I have no idea what the draft value chart thingy would say about this. But I think it's the kind of deal that could really benefit both teams big-time.
Trade Geno Smith and the #2 pick in the draft to KC for Alex Smith and KC's 1st round pick (say, #17), and 3rd round pick?
If you're the Jets, they could have won quite a few games this year with even *competent* QB play. Alex Smith is a competent NFL QB. Not great. But not too bad. 16th in the NFL in yards, 14th in QB rating. Pretty decent. Certainly a HECK of a lot better than Geno Smith. And with the 17th pick, they take one of the following WR: Dorial Green-Beckham (Oklahoma), Kevin White (WVU), or Jaelen Strong (Arizona St.), giving them a terrific outside weapon. And then the 3rd round pick could also be used to address skill position talent. One reason you do this is because Winston and Mariota both represent risks. And they've been through so many of these high draft pick QBs recently that it may be time to go with the "pretty solid QB, lots of talent elsewhere" approach.
For KC, the reason they do this is because you don't often get a shot at a potential franchise QB like Winston or Mariota. While Alex Smith is better than average (by a little), he's also not a star. They have lots of talent on that team and a QB like Winston or Mariota could be the guy to take them to the next level. It's a risk for sure. But this is the kind of risk you may want to take. And you get Geno Smith thrown in, and he provides a backup QB who still may end up being pretty decent as well.
I have no idea what the draft value chart thingy would say about this. But I think it's the kind of deal that could really benefit both teams big-time.
ivanvamp said:
I think everyone would laugh, and you'd play along as if you were really joking but everyone is pretty sure you weren't.
I think there's some value in the Jets trading back if they're not huge Mariota or Winston fans. I don't think going for Smith would make sense, though. He's a pretty limited player, and the Jets have a lot of holes. OL is getting old and starting to be a problem. I actually think their skill players are OK if they bring back Harvin - Decker's solid, Harvin can be dynamic, Amaro's shown some flashes, and Kerley's fine as a slot guy. But the defense has issues, too. Corner and safety are still problems despite firsts each of the past couple years. David Harris and Calvin Pace aren't getting any younger. I don't think this team is an Alex Smith away from competing for a playoff spot - and even if it is, why trade assets for a guy like that versus just signing a Kyle Orton off the street like Buffalo did?ivanvamp said:
Well, yeah, you could look at two games to try to figure out if Rex and the Jets are shitty.reggiecleveland said:
I just, uh, don't understand why anyone would do that.
Jettisoned said:
No, I'm not joking. The question is which team says no to this deal? Probably the Jets because teams tend not to give up those picks, but enough of them do that it's not unheard of. Such a trade would actually help them shore up more holes than keeping the pick.
I'd like to know what you actually think of it instead of offering a glib one-liner.
Super Nomario said:
It doesn't have to be Alex Smith per se. Just someone in that range, if the other team wants to go for it and take a chance to get a potential franchise QB. For the Jets, even Alex Smith represents a HUGE upgrade at QB (and, frankly, one who is more of a sure NFL quarterback right now than either Mariota or Winston), and they add two other quality picks that allows them to shore up other areas of need. Just rolling the dice with Mariota or Winston is a classic gamble for them that doesn't address any of their other needs.
I don't disagree that the Jets might be served by shopping their pick (if it's in range for one of Mariotta, etc.) but I guess I don't see how a mediocre / decent team like KC would create a hole where one doesn't necessarily exist by trading a serviceable QB, try to fill that very hole by taking a risk on a high profile rookie QB, and giving up multiple picks to do so.
He should know better but that's the Jets way. The more sound bites the better. They talk about the past, present and future. They are not an organization that preaches one game at a time focus.Jnai said:
You hear players, ex players and coaches all the time say there are no moral victories in the NFL. I guess they forgot to add unless you are the Jets.
steveluck7 said:
I tried to lay out what I think might be the reason: Because they are trying to get to the next level, and Alex Smith isn't going to get them there. They need a true franchise QB, and it's not often that you have the opportunity to get on in the draft. So they'd be taking a risk, for sure. But it's a risk that might very well be worth taking.
As always, most trade ideas that people (including me) float around here never come to pass.
DrewDawg said:
The example was poor, but the conversation is a good one.
How about the Saints and Drew Brees? That team has some huge holes and Drew Brees, despite putting up good numbers this year, doesn't look like the same player as he has previously. He's 35 and with the structure of the NFC, the Saint's "Drew Brees SuperBowl Window" is probably closed. He also has a $26.4 and $27.4 cap hit over the next two years.
If they could get the #2 pick in the draft and Geno Smith as a stop gap (if they even want him), that very well could be the start of a good trade for both teams.
Why would Geno Smith be of any value to the Saints in that situation?
Geno Smith is the NFL version of "below replacement level". It might be worth trading for a QB, but I don't see what value Geno Smith adds in that deal.
Geno Smith is the NFL version of "below replacement level". It might be worth trading for a QB, but I don't see what value Geno Smith adds in that deal.
Jnai said:
Well, like I said, "If they even want him".
They probably wouldn't, but getting the #2 pick in the draft and a potential franchise QB is something that would be enticing for a team whose window is probably closed.
And why is 36-year-old Drew Brees of any value to the Jets? Even with good QB play, they are not likely to be serious SB contenders over the next 2-3 years.
Bellhorn said:
The Jets have the 3rd most projected cap space in 2015 with nearly $40 million, and there is talk of the cap going up. Drew Brees, a revamped secondary, and a few pieces on the line could absolutely make them a playoff contender and legit threat in the AFC.
Jnai said:
Jesus Christ, you're like my wife. Stop focusing on the shit that doesn't matter. Throw Geno Smith out of the equation entirely. I think Drew Brees for the #2 in the draft is the start of a good trade for both teams.
It may need to be massaged in one direction or another, but I think the point Ivan made (Jets trade out of pick and get relevant QB to compete now) holds water.
Edit: Ah, apologies for the snark. My wording sucked. I was implying the #2 pick could be a franchise QB.
Yeah, again, I think that trading out of the #2 spot (assuming they're there of course) could net the Jets not only a solid upgrade at QB, but add two picks that could help plug holes or add additional talent elsewhere. It's the better way to get a lot better a lot faster. Drafting Mariota or Winston puts them in another cycle where they won't really know if they have the right guy at QB for another three full years probably.
And for the team trading away the solid veteran QB, it's a chance to shoot for the moon with a QB with potentially huge upside.
Anyway, just an idea. Frankly, I hope the Jets do whatever it takes to suck for the rest of my life so whatever the best move here is, I hope they do the opposite.
And for the team trading away the solid veteran QB, it's a chance to shoot for the moon with a QB with potentially huge upside.
Anyway, just an idea. Frankly, I hope the Jets do whatever it takes to suck for the rest of my life so whatever the best move here is, I hope they do the opposite.
The fact that you and Super Nomario disagree about this trade means it's at least plausible. You are saying that Alex Smith is valuable enough that the Jets would need to offer more to get him. SN said that Alex Smith isn't worth those picks, because the Jets could just sign someone like Orton. I tend to agree with you that the Chiefs say no, but its debatable, and that proposal is not laughable.DrewDawg said:
To be clear: I don't think either side does this, and I don't really think it makes sense for either side.crystalline said:
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