Celtics 16/17 Roster and Assets

Sprowl

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I agree - this is a solid move. A lot of metrics are unkind to Green's game (defensively in particular), but he's got the skillset to be useful on this team, and if it doesn't work out, it's a one-year deal.
Three and no D?

Adam Himmelsbach ‏@AdamHimmelsbach now6 seconds ago
Tyler Zeller's deal with the Celtics is two-years, second year non-guaranteed. Same setup as Jerebko/Amir had this year, source says.
Danny does love his roster flexibility, and Tyler probably got a nice bonus for agreeing to the second year club option.

Roster now shaking out as:

C: Horford 30, Olynyk 25, Zeller 26
PF: Johnson 29, Jerebko 29, Mickey 22
SF: Crowder 26, Green 30, Brown 19
SG: Bradley 25, Smart 22, Hunter 21 / Young 20
PG: Thomas 27, Rozier 22, Jackson 22

edited to add current ages.
 
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amfox1

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Agreed, with BOS controlling the rights to Zizic and Yabusele (overseas) and Nader (D-League or overseas). Not sure how the partial guarantee affects Bentil if he is cut.
 

bowiac

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Three and no D?
I'm sorta counting on the Stevens special here, where he turned Evan Turner, a less gifted physical talent and equally unskilled defender, into something resembling average-ness.

And if not, it's one year deal.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
How is Ainge keeping Brown unsigned? Telling him that his current cap hold is less than what it will be when they eventually sign him allowing more money to play with? Now with Green and Zeller under contract he shouldn't be able to keep telling Brown that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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How is Ainge keeping Brown unsigned? Telling him that his current cap hold is less than what it will be when they eventually sign him allowing more money to play with? Now with Green and Zeller under contract he shouldn't be able to keep telling Brown that.
What is the rush though? Brown doesn't have an agent and is handling his contract negotiations by himself so there is likely an educational process that takes time as well as the summer league games pushing back the timeline for him prior to agreeing to terms with Ainge.

There is also the misnomer that you don't need an agent for your rookie deal as the salary is locked in based on where you are selected which isn't the case. Teams are allowed to sign their first round pick for anywhere between 80-120% of their rookie scale. In Brown's case his slot is roughly $4m for his rookie year bring his range to negotiate the salary between $3.2m and $4.8m which is quite a daunting task for a 20-year olds first negotiation.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Have they actually signed these players or just agreed to terms with them? If they have only agreed to terms, that doesn't necessarily affect other moves.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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What is the rush though? Brown doesn't have an agent and is handling his contract negotiations by himself so there is likely an educational process that takes time as well as the summer league games pushing back the timeline for him prior to agreeing to terms with Ainge.

There is also the misnomer that you don't need an agent for your rookie deal as the salary is locked in based on where you are selected which isn't the case. Teams are allowed to sign their first round pick for anywhere between 80-120% of their rookie scale. In Brown's case his slot is roughly $4m for his rookie year bring his range to negotiate the salary between $3.2m and $4.8m which is quite a daunting task for a 20-year olds first negotiation.
I see your point, but aren't the Celtics known for routinely giving the 120% in good faith? Have they stopped doing that?
 

Fishy1

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I'm sorta counting on the Stevens special here, where he turned Evan Turner, a less gifted physical talent and equally unskilled defender, into something resembling average-ness.

And if not, it's one year deal.
Nevermind Turner, he got Marcus Thornton to play defense. I imagine he'll be able to get Gerald Green, with his physical gifts, to play at least average defense.

Reports were that his defense got better last year with Miami, too.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I like this. Depth, shooting, allows you to bring along Brown at the right pace, gives you another NBA body should a big trade go down at some point.

Excited to see how the O looks now that we've replaced Sully with Horford and Turner with Rozier/Green/Brown. Just from a shooting perspective things are looking way up.
 
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zenter

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I see your point, but aren't the Celtics known for routinely giving the 120% in good faith? Have they stopped doing that?
Yes, the Cs have done that basically throughout the Ainge era and they did it last year, so no evidence of a change.

The main reason they're waiting is maximum flexibility for a potential trade for (basically) Westbrook, Cousins, or Love.
 

nighthob

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You should add Griffin to the list if the rumors that LA is coming down on asking price are true. Boston has Crowder and the Clipper #1 as a starting point, but it's very likely that they need to add another forward (better than Jerebko) to the mix to make it worth the Clippers' while.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I see your point, but aren't the Celtics known for routinely giving the 120% in good faith? Have they stopped doing that?
The 120% is nearly always standard in GM/agent negotiations. I have no idea what a GM/player negotiation would look like from the salary side of the contract. Then there is all the other possible inclusions that Brown could ask for which may or may not be standard in these deals. We don't know since this hasn't occurred in the modern game as far as I know.
 

RetractableRoof

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The 120% is nearly always standard in GM/agent negotiations. I have no idea what a GM/player negotiation would look like from the salary side of the contract. Then there is all the other possible inclusions that Brown could ask for which may or may not be standard in these deals. We don't know since this hasn't occurred in the modern game as far as I know.
If anyone thinks the Celtics are going to create a distrustful climate for the players by working over a rookie without an agent in their first negotiations they are nuts. If would take 3 seconds on social media and they would get no free agent looks. Now giving away the store is different. I would be shocked if Ainge didn't give the 120 percent and then set up a tier system of typical player inclusions: Jaylen you can can have any 3 of these 5 expensive inclusions, 4 of these 8, etc.

It's just good business in a players era.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If anyone thinks the Celtics are going to create a distrustful climate for the players by working over a rookie without an agent in their first negotiations they are nuts. If would take 3 seconds on social media and they would get no free agent looks. Now giving away the store is different. I would be shocked if Ainge didn't give the 120 percent and then set up a tier system of typical player inclusions: Jaylen you can can have any 3 of these 5 expensive inclusions, 4 of these 8, etc.

It's just good business in a players era.
There is more to negotiating an NBA contract than simply salary. James Jones had a clause in his old Miami contract that prevented him from riding horses. We don't know if Brown has any hobbies that Ainge doesn't want him participating in. There was the baseball pitcher about 15 years ago who had a clause allowing him a limo driving his family halfway across the country something like 6 times a year.

We don't know what Brown wants, what Ainge is agreeable to and the fact that Brown is doing this on his own makes it very reasonable that this didn't happen in Vegas. There is a massive learning curve for Brown in a very small window.
 

Drocca

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He's not doing it on his own. The Union, as part of the services you receive from paying your dues, acts as his agent, complete with a lawyer and certified agent representative.

He is utilizing an agent for hs shoe and other endorsement deals.
 

the1andonly3003

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There is more to negotiating an NBA contract than simply salary. James Jones had a clause in his old Miami contract that prevented him from riding horses. We don't know if Brown has any hobbies that Ainge doesn't want him participating in. There was the baseball pitcher about 15 years ago who had a clause allowing him a limo driving his family halfway across the country something like 6 times a year.

We don't know what Brown wants, what Ainge is agreeable to and the fact that Brown is doing this on his own makes it very reasonable that this didn't happen in Vegas. There is a massive learning curve for Brown in a very small window.
http://www.scout.com/college/california/story/1666797-jaylen-brown-moving-the-pieces

maybe no summer internships at any Boston VC firms or barred from the local chess clubs
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's not doing it on his own. The Union, as part of the services you receive from paying your dues, acts as his agent, complete with a lawyer and certified agent representative.

He is utilizing an agent for hs shoe and other endorsement deals.
Isiah Thomas, the HOFer not our one, is attached to Brown's hip and advising him. What could possibly go wrong?
 

BigSoxFan

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Why would another team want that contract, though?
I think he was referring to the opposite. Jackson stays and someone like Rozier goes. It's possible that they've simply seen enough to keep him around for a few years.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Something is up. You don't pay a 2nd round pick that kind of money without expecting him to be in the rotation. I think a trade is on the horizon.
Yes in todays market you can without reading anything into the contract. This is the new normal which has been forming over the past couple drafts in anticipation of the cap increase. It's just that this is the year with the cap rise where the 4-year gives the team options tremendous value without carrying much risk especially now with the 15-man roster.

Isaiah Whitehead (#42), Tyler Ulis (#34), Paul Zipser (#48), and Willy Hernangomez (2015 draft rights) have signed similar 4-year deals so far in this draft with all the other 2nd rounders signing for 3-year deals with similar terms. The only 2nd rounders who have signed for 2 years that I know of are Diamond Stone (#40) and Patrick McCaw (#38).

Last summer nearly all the 2nd rounders were on these 3-year deals with Joe Young (#43) on a 4-year like Jackson. There have been others doing 4 years in years prior like Ricky Ledo and Carrick Felix as the 3-year guarantee with team option was gaining traction.
 

RedOctober3829

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You pay that kind of money to a player you think can contribute. They did that last year with Mickey but with Jackson they are already so deep at his position. You would think he'd be good insurance if they want to trade a guard ahead of him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You pay that kind of money to a player you think can contribute. They did that last year with Mickey but with Jackson they are already so deep at his position. You would think he'd be good insurance if they want to trade a guard ahead of him.
Well you always think a 2nd round pick who played a couple years of college has a chance to contribute in his first couple seasons or else you wouldn't be drafting them, no? I was describing that the trend around the league with ALL teams is to lock these guys up with team options of 3 and now 4 years to keep them off the open market if they are contributors.....as I said, all but two 2nd round picks have been signed to deals with team control for 3 or 4 seasons.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Seems like with the fourth year being a team it's is probably more team-friendly than say a straight 3-year guaranteed deal.

Here's a list from early July on some of the other 2nd round contracts: http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2016/07/2016-nba-draft-pick-signings.html. Some other examples: Davis got 3/$3.923MM fully guaranteed; AJ Hammons, picked just after Jackson, got 3/$2.6MM fully guaranteed; Diamond Stone got 2 years at minimum salary (but Clips have no salary cap room). Etc.
 
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Sprowl

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You pay that kind of money to a player you think can contribute. They did that last year with Mickey but with Jackson they are already so deep at his position. You would think he'd be good insurance if they want to trade a guard ahead of him.
It appears that Ainge and Stevens were pleased with Jackson's performance in summer league and think that he could be a legitimate backup. It hints that Rozier is of interest to trading partners.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Leakage of Jackson's 4-year deal only including the first year being fully guaranteed. This should end the conspiracies.
 

jmm57

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I saw an article in the Globe from 7/23 that suggested they were trying to work out a deal with Nader. I haven't seen anything since then, any idea what the plan would be with him? I thought it was a total wasted draft pick, but after the Summer League I would be pretty bummed to lose him.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I saw an article in the Globe from 7/23 that suggested they were trying to work out a deal with Nader. I haven't seen anything since then, any idea what the plan would be with him? I thought it was a total wasted draft pick, but after the Summer League I would be pretty bummed to lose him.
Same. I mean, it is just summer league, but I would have guessed that he at least moved himself ahead of Bentil.

If they aren't going to sign him, I'd kind of like to see him go to China with the Dancing Bear.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Nader foregoing "lucrative" overseas contract and has agreed to sign with Red Claws. http://greenstreet.weei.com/sports/boston/basketball/celtics/2016/08/23/agent-abdel-nader-to-remain-in-u-s-join-celtics-d-league-team/

Wonder how DA talked him into this. I mean if he had gone to training camp and had been cut, the Cs would have lost his draft rights and Nader would have been a FA, isn't that correct?

edit: according to this, Nader may have "pledged" to sign with ME if Celtics drafted him. Interesting that he stuck to his word.
 

Koufax

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Sure, the Celtics will get a conditional 2d round pick in exchange for RJ, Young and an unconditional 2d round pick. Sounds about right.
 

zenter

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Sure, the Celtics will get a conditional 2d round pick in exchange for RJ, Young and an unconditional 2d round pick. Sounds about right.
Hah. Seriously, I think Hunter might be worth a late 2nd rounder by himself.

Young is an argument for having 10 rounds, just so you can get an early 5th rounder.
 

TheRooster

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Is there anyone who thinks Young is going to turn into a legit NBA player? He's somewhat tall and can hit threes in practice, but I see almost nothing else.
 

BigSoxFan

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Is there anyone who thinks Young is going to turn into a legit NBA player? He's somewhat tall and can hit threes in practice, but I see almost nothing else.
I think we'd all be pretty surprised to see him become a useful NBA player. He's still young (ha) but I'm extremely bearish on his potential. It's happened before but players who don't show anything in first couple of years typically don't last long. It's not one of those "he just needs an opportunity" things. The skills just aren't there.
 

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