Red Sox sign OF Chris Young to two year deal

Pinchrunner#2 · Nov 30, 2015

Savin Hillbilly said:
Gomes last winter was (1) two years older than Young is now, (2) a much, much worse defensive player, and (3) coming off an 86 OPS+ season as opposed to Young's 112. And Young, too, is known as a great clubhouse guy. There is every reason to think Young will get a much, much better contract than Gomes did. 2 years in the $12-$15M range seems likely.

When the Red Sox signed Gomes for the 2013 and 2014 seasons, he came off of a 142 ops+ season in Oakland, his age 31-season. He had a combined -1.3 bref defensive WAR the last three seasons (combined to eliminate the small sample size problem). He also had a .974 ops against LHP that year in Oakland. He got 2/10.

Chris Young now is 32, one year older than Gomes when he signed with Boston as the 4th OF. He is coming off a 112 ops+ season and has a combined -1.9 defensive brefWAR, though accumulated also in other, more difficult defensive positions than LF. Last year he had a .972 ops against LHP.

The two players are extremely similar when signed expect for the fact that Young plays other OF positions. Factoring in the increasing salaries and the versatility a 2/12 or 2/13 contract would be reasonable.

jon abbey · Nov 30, 2015

swingin val said:
His home run totals may be inflated because of this, but both those mop-up pitchers throw right handed. Thus his fantastic numbers against LHP are unaffected by those at bats.

True, but his .585 OPS against RHP would have been even lower without those. By my rough calculation, it would drop to .523.

MikeM · Nov 30, 2015

DanoooME said:
Mets signed him in '14 for 1 year/$7.25M, then released him in August
Yankees signed him for '15 for 1 year/$2.5M with 350K in PA bonuses (that he achieved)

I'd guess the salary is somewhere in the middle. I'm hoping they keep it to two years with him already being 32 and doesn't have far to fall to be below replacement.

As somebody who is fairly skeptical on the chance that a BBC outfield actually sticks, my first surface thought on this was that it would be kind of wasteful to be tying up $20m/per on 4th outfielders. 2/$15m also strikes me as buying pretty heavy into Young's 2015 split (imo) when the previous 2 years were not nearly as good.

So here is to hoping it ends up being a lot closer to that latter figure.

Jed Zeppelin · Nov 30, 2015

FredCDobbs said:
I can't quote the tweet because I'm at work but Jeff Passan said this deal means Dombrowski is getting ready to make a big deal for a starter.

Would people here give up Betts in a deal for Jose Fernandez? He would be sooo painful to lose but it may well make sense from a team-building perspective.

The trade speculation doesn't make much sense to me. The team needed a 4th OF and just signed one. After trading Margot, depth was an issue with Holt/Cecchini/Brentz/Craig as the non-Hanley alternatives. In a different SP market maybe, but given the available pitchers there's little reason to harm the team's depth and commit to a backup as a starting OF.

mauf · Nov 30, 2015

Is there anyone on the free-agent market, or rumored to be available in trade, who would make a good strong half of a LF platoon?

I ask because with all the Gomes comparisons, I wonder if the plan is to use Young as a platoon guy, in addition to being the 4th OF. (I'm not convinced that Shaw will make the 25-man -- Holt could be the fall-back if Hanley doesn't stick at 1B, even if neither JBJ nor Betts is traded.)

Hee Sox Choi · Nov 30, 2015

Over the past 3 years, Chris Young has 600 ABs vs. Rs and has hit .211/.269/.381. He should see as few ABs vs. Rs as possible and in NO WAY should this make a trade of an OF more probable.

Tyrone Biggums · Nov 30, 2015

Solid signing if the numbers aren't crazy. He's a perfect pull hitter for Fenway. Hopefully they don't have any designs to give him 500 at bats. I assume in that scenario something would had to have gone really wrong.

benhogan · Nov 30, 2015

Hee Sox Choi said:
Over the past 3 years, Chris Young has 600 ABs vs. Rs and has hit .211/.269/.381. He should see as few ABs vs. Rs as possible and in NO WAY should this make a trade of an OF more probable.

Maybe sign DeAza to a 1yr deal for $1-2MM and deal Castillo.

I could live with a DeAza/Young LF, if we need the cost savings generated from dealing Castillo to help sign Price.

E5 Yaz · Nov 30, 2015

benhogan said:
Maybe sign DeAza to a 1yr deal for $1-2MM and deal Castillo.

I could live with a DeAza/Young LF, if we need the cost savings generated from dealing Castillo to help sign Price.

Based on what he's shown thus far, how much of Castillo's remaining deal (16: $10.5M, 17: $10.5M, 18: $11M, 19: $11M, 20: $13.5M*) would you expect another team would be willing to pick up?

* can opt out of his deal after '19. Info: Cot's

NDame616 · Nov 30, 2015

benhogan said:
Maybe sign DeAza to a 1yr deal for $1-2MM and deal Castillo.

I could live with a DeAza/Young LF, if we need the cost savings generated from dealing Castillo to help sign Price.

De Aza made $5M last year, hit .262 and had an OPS of .755. What makes you think he'd sign a 1 year deal for $1 or $2M? He's getting 2/$12-$14M or so

MikeM · Nov 30, 2015

maufman said:
Is there anyone on the free-agent market, or rumored to be available in trade, who would make a good strong half of a LF platoon?

A Josh Reddick/Young platoon would look pretty sexy imo in the event you wanted to trade Castillo and make an all in bet on Bradley.

Granted Beane has recently stated that he has no intention of trading him...but it is Oakland and Reddick is currently sitting at 5 years service time.

benhogan · Nov 30, 2015

NDame616 said:
De Aza made $5M last year, hit .262 and had an OPS of .755. What makes you think he'd sign a 1 year deal for $1 or $2M? He's getting 2/$12-$14M or so

White Sox waived him in 2013 and Orioles DFA'd him in 2015.

$1-2MM is probably too low, but $12-14MM guaranteed for 2 years?

Its kind of an irrelevant situation if the Sox can't unload all of Castillo's deal, as E5 Yaz pointed out

bohous · Nov 30, 2015

benhogan said:
Maybe sign DeAza to a 1yr deal for $1-2MM and deal Castillo.

I could live with a DeAza/Young LF, if we need the cost savings generated from dealing Castillo to help sign Price.

As E5 points out, finding a taker for Castillo is probably a long shot, however it does raise an interesting point that somebody like DeAza is a better fit as 4th OFer. The current starting OF all have splits favoring LHP, Rusney significantly. "Fenway swing" aside, wouldn't it make more sense to have a 4th OFer who could potentially fill in on the strong side of a platoon?

johnnywayback · Nov 30, 2015

bohous said:
As E5 points out, finding a taker for Castillo is probably a long shot, however it does raise an interesting point that somebody like DeAza is a better fit as 4th OFer. The current starting OF all have splits favoring LHP, Rusney significantly. "Fenway swing" aside, wouldn't it make more sense to have a 4th OFer who could potentially fill in on the strong side of a platoon?

Not if the rest of the bench is Hanigan/Holt/Shaw: two lefties and the backup catcher. With that bench, you want a RHH to fill the 4th OF slot.

nvalvo · Nov 30, 2015

johnnywayback said:
Not if the rest of the bench is Hanigan/Holt/Shaw: two lefties and the backup catcher. With that bench, you want a RHH to fill the 4th OF slot.

Of course, Holt has a mild reverse split.

vadertime · Nov 30, 2015

40 Man is full so someone is going have to be DFA.

What does Brentz have to do get a shot? He's got 793 AAA AB, so he doesn't really have anything more to prove there. Has shown some pop, I'd almost rather see him get a shot to the 4th OF at a fraction of the cost.

Red(s)HawksFan · Nov 30, 2015

vadertime said:
40 Man is full so someone is going have to be DFA.

What does Brentz have to do get a shot? He's got 793 AAA AB, so he doesn't really have anything more to prove there. Has shown some pop, I'd almost rather see him get a shot to the 4th OF at a fraction of the cost.

Most likely DFA candidate is probably Roman Mendez. Fringe reliever, no options left, easily replaceable.

To get a shot, I think Brentz has to prove he is and can stay healthy. At age 26 and going on his last option year, the clock is definitely ticking. He does represent the extent of the Sox' outfield depth though, so he's probably not going anywhere any time soon.

Savin Hillbilly · Nov 30, 2015

Pinchrunner#2 said:
When the Red Sox signed Gomes for the 2013 and 2014 seasons, he came off of a 142 ops+ season in Oakland, his age 31-season. He had a combined -1.3 bref defensive WAR the last three seasons (combined to eliminate the small sample size problem).

Sorry, I thought you were comparing Young this year to Gomes' most recent contract, the one he signed last winter. Gomes 2013 is certainly a much better comp for Young 2016, and I agree that the deals should be roughly similar, allowing a bit for inflation and for Young's defensive superiority, which makes him more versatile/useful in a 4th OF role. (BTW, I think you miscalculated Gomes' BBref three-year dWAR preceding his 2013 signing--it's -4.3, not -1.3. You might have counted the two halves of his 2011 as separate years?)

Pinchrunner#2 · Nov 30, 2015

Savin Hillbilly said:
BTW, I think you miscalculated Gomes' BBref three-year dWAR preceding his 2013 signing--it's -4.3, not -1.3. You might have counted the two halves of his 2011 as separate years?)

Yep, miscalculated this.

Pinchrunner#2 · Nov 30, 2015

vadertime said:
40 Man is full so someone is going have to be DFA.

What does Brentz have to do get a shot? He's got 793 AAA AB, so he doesn't really have anything more to prove there. Has shown some pop, I'd almost rather see him get a shot to the 4th OF at a fraction of the cost.

I once believed he would be a 4th OF too, which is still possible. But I wouldnt say he has nothing to prove there anymore. If you look at his stats he has to prove that he can hit AAA a lot better than he did so far. A .246/.317/.439 slash line in AAA is not enough to be considered as 4th OF of the Red Sox. Especially if you a striking out three times more than you walk.

Bigpupp · Nov 30, 2015

Red(s)HawksFan said:
Most likely DFA candidate is probably Roman Mendez. Fringe reliever, no options left, easily replaceable.

I'm thinking Coyle. Rutledge cleared waivers and will be in Pawtucket and Coyle has been mostly atrocious anyway. They will probably lose Mendez this offseason also, but I'm guessing Coyle is the first to go.

The Boomer · Nov 30, 2015

Savin Hillbilly said:
Gomes last winter was (1) two years older than Young is now, (2) a much, much worse defensive player, and (3) coming off an 86 OPS+ season as opposed to Young's 112. And Young, too, is known as a great clubhouse guy. There is every reason to think Young will get a much, much better contract than Gomes did. 2 years in the $12-$15M range seems likely.

It's better to commit to a possibly slight overpay for a quality reserve like Young than grossly overpay for an Ace in years 4-6 of a foolish contract who could predictably be then worth a lot less than projected in the short term.

For this price, they might actually make JBJ and Castillo even more valuable by picking and choosing where to protect and sit them. More cost effective but widespread incremental WAR improvements throughout the lineup and pitching staff could be more productive than a WAR jump for a single Ace type starter who will cost a fortune.

Cherington did exactly this with every golden move before the 2013 season and Dombrowski will be well advised to try to duplicate this approach than to attempt to wastefully spend his way out of last place like Cherington before 2015. You might as well resurrect the opinions in the Gomes thread right after he was the first domino signing about 4 years ago.

Improving the lineup overall, the pitching overall and bolstering depth even past the first 25 men who will break with the team after spring training might be a better investment than adding a single pitcher with limited prime years of production remaining who contributes only every 5th day but ties up too many team financial assets for too long.

keninten · Nov 30, 2015

This has got to be 2 years @ $10 mil. The 2nd year has to give them a cheaper deal. I don`t think he would have gotten more than 1 year @ $7 mil, if that. I like the signing but not for more than 2/10. 1/6 would have been better.

themanwithoneredsock · Dec 1, 2015

decent pick up, and a good fit for fenway....but not exactly a neat fit for the roster. he's as platoony as it gets, but neither jbj or rusney fit the other half of that platoon. it does seem like there may yet be another shoe to drop in the OF yet.

Red(s)HawksFan · Dec 1, 2015

themanwithoneredsock said:
decent pick up, and a good fit for fenway....but not exactly a neat fit for the roster. he's as platoony as it gets, but neither jbj or rusney fit the other half of that platoon. it does seem like there may yet be another shoe to drop in the OF yet.

Not if the goal isn't to platoon either of those guys (JBJ and Castillo). If the goal is simply to have a competent back-up outfielder and a right handed hitter for the bench (which they lack other than the back-up catcher), mission accomplished. There is no other shoe to drop.

Alex Cole's Rec Specs · Dec 1, 2015

The Fangraphs crowdsource had Chris Young earning 2 years/$12 million; given how early this signing is in the offseason, I have to think it's more like 2 years/$14 million.

Tyrone Biggums · Dec 1, 2015

vadertime said:
40 Man is full so someone is going have to be DFA.

What does Brentz have to do get a shot? He's got 793 AAA AB, so he doesn't really have anything more to prove there. Has shown some pop, I'd almost rather see him get a shot to the 4th OF at a fraction of the cost.

Have a productive recent season in AAA and stay healthy.

Dustin the Wind · Dec 1, 2015

Sources: Chris Young deal with #RedSox is two years, $13M. - Rosenthal

Drek717 · Dec 1, 2015

themanwithoneredsock said:
decent pick up, and a good fit for fenway....but not exactly a neat fit for the roster. he's as platoony as it gets, but neither jbj or rusney fit the other half of that platoon. it does seem like there may yet be another shoe to drop in the OF yet.

Bradley has had a significant platoon split throughout his mL career. Just because he had a major reverse split while having a month and a half of Mike Trout level offensive performance doesn't mean he's not going to need a platoon in the future.

Young is a good get, especially when combined with the Kimbrel trade. Adding Young gives the club four solid OF options at the ML level under control for the next two years. By the time Young's deal is up we'll know a lot more about Benintendi, Moncada's future position, Nick Longhi and L. Alexander Basabe not to mention whomever they pick in the draft this year. He's the bridge that made Margot expendable.

This is likely the new mindset Dombrowski is bringing. Pawtucket isn't going to be nearly as thrilling to watch as it has been in the past under his guidance as his focus is the 25 man. Not just the 25 man for one year mind you, where he's going to fire sale the whole farm, but he's not going to hang onto a surfeit of young talent at the same positions. It's all about who is playing in Boston, Portland and Pawtucket will take what remains. Namely the prospects he likes enough to pencil in to the 25 man down the road.

Young in particular also makes a lot of sense for the Red Sox and for Chris Young. There is a long history of guys like Young coming here and enjoying the close confines of Fenway's LF. It made guys like Gomes and Ross produce like borderline every day players as even against RHP they pulled enough balls to get rewarded. Young has the same profile but adds good to very good corner OF defense and passable CF skills, further insuring that he'll provide value over the next two years. For Young he gets to play in a park ideally suited for his skills for two seasons in a division he had success with last year, maximizing the chances his numbers stay up and he gets another deal after this one.

Buzzkill Pauley · Dec 1, 2015

2/$13MM seems a little pricey for a 4th/5th OF bench bat, when Brock Holt is already on the team. But as an extreme fly-ball pull RHH, Young seems like a great fit for Fenway.

So I'll repeat the mantra of this offseason: it's not my money.

Yet I just can't shake the feeling that a trade is coming, and that JBJ is on the block. Even in the weei interview where Farrell said his "ideal" BBC outfield configuration has Bradley in center and Betts in right, there seemed to be an unspoken pretext that Farrell just didn't believe JBJ could become a consistent enough hitter at the MLB level - regardless of his consistent milb success - for that alignment to hold steady over the course of a season. This signing seems to me destined to end with either JBJ off the team, or with him and Young platooning in RF while Betts shifts back to CF, because conventional wisdom makes building a team "up-the-middle" the foremost concern, and having an everyday center fielder hitting leadoff with a some pop is somehow better than having an everyday right fielder do the same.

Of course, the bigger elephant in the outfield is Castillo. But for whatever reason, I've noticed something of a weird silence around him and Sandoval this offseason, while all the talk has focused on the potential issues surrounding JBJ and Hanley.

Mighty Joe Young · Dec 1, 2015

I thi

Buzzkill Pauley said:
2/$13MM seems a little pricey for a 4th/5th OF bench bat, when Brock Holt is already on the team. But as an extreme fly-ball pull RHH, Young seems like a great fit for Fenway.

So I'll repeat the mantra of this offseason: it's not my money.

Yet I just can't shake the feeling that a trade is coming, and that JBJ is on the block. Even in the weei interview where Farrell said his "ideal" BBC outfield configuration has Bradley in center and Betts in right, there seemed to be an unspoken pretext that Farrell just didn't believe JBJ could become a consistent enough hitter at the MLB level - regardless of his consistent milb success - for that alignment to hold steady over the course of a season. This signing seems to me destined to end with either JBJ off the team, or with him and Young platooning in RF while Betts shifts back to CF, because conventional wisdom makes building a team "up-the-middle" the foremost concern, and having an everyday center fielder hitting leadoff with a some pop is somehow better than having an everyday right fielder do the same.

Of course, the bigger elephant in the outfield is Castillo. But for whatever reason, I've noticed something of a weird silence around him and Sandoval this offseason, while all the talk has focused on the potential issues surrounding JBJ and Hanley.

I think trading Margot means they don't trade any of BBC. At the very least it would mean bringing in a FA OF - which will be expensive (in Gordon's case) or very, very expensive (in Heyward's case).

Why can't this be simply what it appears to be? Young gives them adequate backup in the event Castillo or JBJ can't hit.

Devizier · Dec 1, 2015

Crowdsourcing is doing a really good job this year. The fancrowd had Young pegged for 2/12.

Wonder if people have been learning from their overestimates on the lower end and underestimates on the upper end. Price and Greinke will be the test for the latter.

Alex Cole's Rec Specs · Dec 1, 2015

Payroll is now pretty close to the luxury tax threshold. It's not my money, but I'm fascinated to know whether DD has permission to go $25 or even $30 million over to finish building his team, or whether there is one or more shoes to drop to create more payroll room for a Price or a Greinke...

bosockboy · Dec 1, 2015

Very likely signed as a strong 4th OF, but definitely gives them the flexibility to move Castillo in the right deal and use a Holt/Young platoon in LF with Marrero as a utility IF.

Hank Scorpio · Dec 1, 2015

Alex Cole's Rec Specs said:
Payroll is now pretty close to the luxury tax threshold. It's not my money, but I'm fascinated to know whether DD has permission to go $25 or even $30 million over to finish building his team, or whether there is one or more shoes to drop to create more payroll room for a Price or a Greinke...

In my mind, going over this season is likely less of an issue for John Henry than in previous seasons. With a new CBA imminent, it's almost a certainty the current luxury tax threshold will be substantially increased, or perhaps even scrapped entirely.

I'd say committing to go over the current threshold for the next several seasons is probably a safe bet to make, but the bigger question is how high should ownership count on the luxury tax threshold being bumped up to. My gut tells me $220-250M, but that's still a big range, and might even be low... $300M or the abolishing of a cap might happen too. Right now might actually be the perfect time to buy out some of Xander and Mookie's FA years, perhaps even Swihart, JBJ and E-Rod mid-season if they continue to progress as hoped.

Buzzkill Pauley · Dec 1, 2015

BCsMightyJoeYoung said:
I thi
Why can't this be simply what it appears to be? Young gives them adequate backup in the event Castillo or JBJ can't hit.

Because Brock Holt already does this job for less than 1/10th the price. Between Travis Shaw, Deven Marrero, Marco Hernandez, Josh Rutledge, and Sam Travis, the Sox likely have sufficient depth from the bench and high-minors to cover infielder injuries of the non-season-ending variety pretty capably, without even leveraging Holt's famous versatility. So I saw Holt primarily picking up his at-bats from playing as de facto 4th outfielder, and the Sox needing only to find a 5th OF...until they paid Young to be more than that.

Because Young projects to me as a low-average/high-slugging weak-side platoon "regular" rather than a 4th OF who pinch-hits and rides the pine until needed to play full-time if Castillo or JBJ spits the bit or gets hurt. And there's always an outfielder available in-season, like De Aza was, for the contingency where one of the penciled-in starters sucks or is injured long-term. Part of the beauty of the BBC plan appeared to be that the FO wouldn't need to find someone to play the exact position of the starter who didn't work out, if that happened, but could instead find the best available OF and then shift around the new set of pieces. Because of that flexibility, 5th OF wasn't really something I ever looked at as being worth 2 years and eight figures of contract this offseason.

Lastly, because paying $6.5MM to someone planned to be a back-up outfielder without a plan in place just seems nuts. At least when Gomes signed, there was a clear logic to platooning him with Nava in left field, since Ellsbury and Victorino were "everyday" guys with decent track records of success and each side of the platoon had established that was what they should be. But that logic is broken now with Young, because it's uncertain how to proceed with all these guys on the roster. For all the talk of JBJ platooning with Young, his splits aren't severe enough to cry out for taking his glove out of the CF when facing a LHP (2015 = .344 OBP/.796 OPS vs. LHP across all levels, 2013 = .349 OBP/.682 OPS vs LHP across all levels), Nor is JBJ's MLB track record established enough to warrant it. Most likely, JBJ will either hit everyone well enough, or he won't hit anyone well enough, to be a daily starter rather than a platoon partner. There's no obvious way to platoon Castillo and Young.

Which, I suppose, leads me right back to the old mantra: it's not my money.

Minneapolis Millers · Dec 1, 2015

BP: Your points are valid, but if we assume that this contract will not impede DD from signing a FA SP (that the team is willing to go over the LT), then it is just money we're talking about. And we're adding a weapon - power off the bench, especially Fenway-friendly power - that we didn't have. That it comes in the form of a guy who can play respectable OF defense is a bonus that helps justify the salary. Plus, having been with the MFY just last season, he'll be able to tell Belichick all of their play calls. Oh, wait...

Bowlerman9 · Dec 1, 2015

Alex Cole's Rec Specs said:
Payroll is now pretty close to the luxury tax threshold. It's not my money, but I'm fascinated to know whether DD has permission to go $25 or even $30 million over to finish building his team, or whether there is one or more shoes to drop to create more payroll room for a Price or a Greinke...

Cherington was allowed to spend $70M on international FA last year (including penalties), so its hard to believe DD wont be allowed to spend any of this money on the actual team payroll.

PrometheusWakefield · Dec 1, 2015

Buzzkill Pauley said:
2/$13MM seems a little pricey for a 4th/5th OF bench bat, when Brock Holt is already on the team. But as an extreme fly-ball pull RHH, Young seems like a great fit for Fenway.

So I'll repeat the mantra of this offseason: it's not my money.

Yet I just can't shake the feeling that a trade is coming, and that JBJ is on the block. Even in the weei interview where Farrell said his "ideal" BBC outfield configuration has Bradley in center and Betts in right, there seemed to be an unspoken pretext that Farrell just didn't believe JBJ could become a consistent enough hitter at the MLB level - regardless of his consistent milb success - for that alignment to hold steady over the course of a season. This signing seems to me destined to end with either JBJ off the team, or with him and Young platooning in RF while Betts shifts back to CF, because conventional wisdom makes building a team "up-the-middle" the foremost concern, and having an everyday center fielder hitting leadoff with a some pop is somehow better than having an everyday right fielder do the same.

Of course, the bigger elephant in the outfield is Castillo. But for whatever reason, I've noticed something of a weird silence around him and Sandoval this offseason, while all the talk has focused on the potential issues surrounding JBJ and Hanley.

I think this is an acquisition they would make whether JBJ is getting traded or not, so I don't think you can identify it as evidence either way.

If we are talking about any ace SP for young players package I think JBJ or Swihart are inevitably going to be in the deal, and I'm sure we're at least still investigating that approach.

InsideTheParker · Dec 1, 2015

Buzzkill Pauley said:
Because Brock Holt already does this job for less than 1/10th the price. Between Travis Shaw, Deven Marrero, Marco Hernandez, Josh Rutledge, and Sam Travis, the Sox likely have sufficient depth from the bench and high-minors to cover infielder injuries of the non-season-ending variety pretty capably, without even leveraging Holt's famous versatility. So I saw Holt primarily picking up his at-bats from playing as de facto 4th outfielder, and the Sox needing only to find a 5th OF...until they paid Young to be more than that......

This trade triggered my recurring fear that Holt might be traded. Then I thought about how tired he gets at the end of the season. Maybe DDski et al want to keep him fresh. Playing him primarily as the IF backup might be a way of doing that.

Savin Hillbilly · Dec 1, 2015

Minneapolis Millers said:
BP: Your points are valid, but if we assume that this contract will not impede DD from signing a FA SP (that the team is willing to go over the LT), then it is just money we're talking about. And we're adding a weapon - power off the bench, especially Fenway-friendly power - that we didn't have. That it comes in the form of a guy who can play respectable OF defense is a bonus that helps justify the salary. Plus, having been with the MFY just last season, he'll be able to tell Belichick all of their play calls. Oh, wait...

Yes to the bolded. It's a fallacy to say that Young doesn't bring anything that Holt doesn't. Holt may be a comparable or even superior asset in overall value, but his skill set is very different. And I think the Sox are stronger with a bench of Young/Holt/Shaw/Hanigan than Holt/Marrero/Shaw/Hanigan--perhaps even a whole win better, which is the difference in cost.

That said, I'm inclined to suspect that BP is right that this is the precursor to a trade rather than simply adding bench strength.

ALiveH · Dec 1, 2015

Young isn't a big enough gamble to get worked up about either way. There is a mixed history of pull-happy RHers at Fenway. Some of them mess themselves up b/c they see the wall & try to change their approach. Others just keep doing what they've been doing & it works out fine.

Young doesn't have enough of a history at Fenway to draw conclusions either way (only 46 PAs).

JamieConway · Dec 1, 2015

Corsi said:
Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal 48s48 seconds ago
Deal with Young, once official, will give #RedSox protection in outfield with Bradley and Castillo unproven, or ability to trade an OFer.

It seems extremely likely that this is built towards trading one of Betts, Bradley or Castillo (I'd bet Betts, sigh) for a big chip and the two years allow Benintendi to take over whenever he's ready.

JamieConway · Dec 1, 2015

FredCDobbs said:
I can't quote the tweet because I'm at work but Jeff Passan said this deal means Dombrowski is getting ready to make a big deal for a starter.

Would people here give up Betts in a deal for Jose Fernandez? He would be sooo painful to lose but it may well make sense from a team-building perspective.

Absolutely.

kieckeredinthehead · Dec 1, 2015

Median/mean predictions from this thread: 2/$12, 2/$12.2. Fangraphs: 2/$12. So what do we think - Chris Young's agent's negotiating skills added $1m or DD's cost them $1m? (smiley winky face)

Tyrone Biggums · Dec 1, 2015

Bosox4416 said:
Sources: Chris Young deal with #RedSox is two years, $13M. - Rosenthal

Fair value. Better value than Gomes at 2/10 or Mike Cameron at 2/18. Granted Cameron was a starter but still. It's not an amazing deal but about what I felt Young would get after last year.

Drek717 · Dec 1, 2015

Buzzkill Pauley said:
Because Brock Holt already does this job for less than 1/10th the price. Between Travis Shaw, Deven Marrero, Marco Hernandez, Josh Rutledge, and Sam Travis, the Sox likely have sufficient depth from the bench and high-minors to cover infielder injuries of the non-season-ending variety pretty capably, without even leveraging Holt's famous versatility. So I saw Holt primarily picking up his at-bats from playing as de facto 4th outfielder, and the Sox needing only to find a 5th OF...until they paid Young to be more than that.

Because Young projects to me as a low-average/high-slugging weak-side platoon "regular" rather than a 4th OF who pinch-hits and rides the pine until needed to play full-time if Castillo or JBJ spits the bit or gets hurt. And there's always an outfielder available in-season, like De Aza was, for the contingency where one of the penciled-in starters sucks or is injured long-term. Part of the beauty of the BBC plan appeared to be that the FO wouldn't need to find someone to play the exact position of the starter who didn't work out, if that happened, but could instead find the best available OF and then shift around the new set of pieces. Because of that flexibility, 5th OF wasn't really something I ever looked at as being worth 2 years and eight figures of contract this offseason.

Lastly, because paying $6.5MM to someone planned to be a back-up outfielder without a plan in place just seems nuts. At least when Gomes signed, there was a clear logic to platooning him with Nava in left field, since Ellsbury and Victorino were "everyday" guys with decent track records of success and each side of the platoon had established that was what they should be. But that logic is broken now with Young, because it's uncertain how to proceed with all these guys on the roster. For all the talk of JBJ platooning with Young, his splits aren't severe enough to cry out for taking his glove out of the CF when facing a LHP (2015 = .344 OBP/.796 OPS vs. LHP across all levels, 2013 = .349 OBP/.682 OPS vs LHP across all levels), Nor is JBJ's MLB track record established enough to warrant it. Most likely, JBJ will either hit everyone well enough, or he won't hit anyone well enough, to be a daily starter rather than a platoon partner. There's no obvious way to platoon Castillo and Young.

Which, I suppose, leads me right back to the old mantra: it's not my money.

For argument's sake:
Paragraph 1 - Holt can also backup across the IF and hits. Where is the 3B answer behind Pablo Sandoval? Pedroia getting hurt? Bogaerts getting a day of rest here and there that doesn't require a roster move? Sure the club has the 40 man options, but that isn't the best use of Holt or the 25 man roster. Marrero's bat is dubious, Hernandez has had one strong season, Rutledge cleared waivers if I recall indicating just how fungible he is, and Sam Travis got half a season in AA last year, he' isn't likely to help in 2016. A Travis Shaw, Chris Young, Brock Holt, and Ryan Hanigan bench is something Farrell should be able to work with.

Paragraph 2 - The De Aza types are readily available in-season. Slightly overpriced LH batters who can't hit LH pitching. If one of Bradley/Castillo does completely shit the bed and Young is just the regular every day Chris Young they can find a De Aza type to platoon him with. The bench above gives exactly the flexibility in shifting players around you're talking about here. Holt has worn down in an very day role the last two seasons. Reverse split LHB are always a gamble to continue having a reverse split. Young can play all three OF positions and adds a RHB to the bench.

Paragraph 3 - For starters, using Bradley's all levels splits is skimming far too lightly. He's had a substantial traditional split all through the minors. For a short period last year at the ML level he hit LHP at a ~0.980 clip. He was 0.790 against RHP. The odds seem strongly in favor of Bradley regressing back to more of his mL norm and being a traditional split guy. There is substantial chance for Bradley to hit RHP well and LHP poorly, making him an ideal platoon guy on a team with Mookie Betts to take over CF against LHP.

As an example, should both of Bradley and Castillo flame out you could potentially get bye with a Travis Shaw, Mookie Betts, Chris Young OF left to right in Fenway, and Holt/Betts/Young on the road against LHP, only leaving RHPs on the road without a worthwhile three man OF already in-house.

Rasputin · Dec 1, 2015

JamieConway said:
It seems extremely likely that this is built towards trading one of Betts, Bradley or Castillo (I'd bet Betts, sigh) for a big chip and the two years allow Benintendi to take over whenever he's ready.

No it doesn't. It doesn't even come close.

We needed a backup outfielder. We got one. That's it.

Darnell's Son · Dec 1, 2015

Check out .com's take on the deal here.

Red Sox sign OF Chris Young to two year deal

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