Having a young roster because you have something like 20 undrafted players because you have no cap space is not a sign of success.
This is now: BB and the direction of the Patriots
- Thread starter DennyDoyle'sBoil
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I'll agree with year 2. But they had a stable, professional offensive coordinator and staff in place from the first day of season workouts on, until Klemm's illness in November. Mac still regressed badly. I think his ceiling, flaws, and limitations were exposed the year. Chief among them an inability to manage adversity, and not being able to function when things aren't perfect.
I get it you don't like Bill, but just to be clear do you think Mac would be a good QB after watching three years of him if he had better coaches?
How about making the playoffs with that roster? A sign of success or nah?
Yeah, it's like folks have never noticed him shaking players hands as they enter the locker room after the game after coming directly off the field.
I love Bill. He's the greatest coach of all time. The Hall of Fame should build an entire building for him.
I don't like how people on this board are pointing fingers at everything but Bill for the last few seasons.
I think people have a very warped view of NFL team building. This idea that it takes years has been proven wrong over and over again.
I really do think that if Bill came back, they nailed the draft, and filled in some holes on O, they could win the division next season. Obviously lots would need to go well, but it wouldn’t take a miracle.
Apparently some folks think going, say, 10-7and making the playoffs would be an awful fate though.
Are you asking us for a definitive call? Cuz that's not really realistic.
Top 10 QB and best defensive player in the league gets you fair in a sea of meh.
Yes, Mac Jones would undoubtedly be better if he wasn't poisoned last year by Patricia and then by a laughably bad offensive line. He *was* better as a rookie.
Then Patricia (a defensive coach, and a legitimate head coaching failure) rolled in, a decision made by. . . Bill Belichick.
But now it's too late for him, he's broken.
We don’t want to just make the playoffs! We want 17-0. Or why bother playing, really?!
Maybe the coachea have some blame for Mac, but they have successfully drafted and developed a lot of NFL QBs between them. I think it's probably more likely the player than the coaches suddenly forgot how to coach.
How are you possibly getting that? Besides Puka’s record breaking season (he’s what, 2 catches and a yard short of both the rookie reception and yardage records), he’s a savage blocker.
Nah. There are simply no guarantees on anyone in sports.
I'm perfectly willing to roll with BB as HC next season, but I want another voice in the room for drafting, and I don't think that he'll accept that.
He has the rookie record for catches and yards in a season. He's the best rookie WR in NFL history.
Douglas is basically the same, no doubt.
Who else did they develop? Cassell did OK playing with the best team of all time. Jimmy G? He was solid under Shanahan like a lot of QBs.
Yeah I mean Mac sucks and there was probably only so much any coaching staff could do. But I have trouble completely letting them off the hook. They also did him no favors in terms of the rest of the roster on offense, which Bill is also accountable for.
I’ve said it a thousand times in this thread, I’m torn and I think there is a reasonable argument that Bill should get one more year. But people twist themselves into absolute pretzels to avoid putting any of the blame of this catastrophic season on Bill. It’s ludicrous, he’s in charge of everything, he owns the results. The offense was historically bad, with two different horrendous QBs both of whom he drafted. He’s accountable for the results this year.
Yeah, exactly. Would Douglas even register were he not on the Pats? Dude had like 500 yards and zero TD’s. He’s interesting and his year was exciting for the 2024 Patriots but it’s not like he’s getting ROY votes.
They drafted like 7 qbs that are still in the league.
Not a crazy statement to say they have a history of picking and developing QBs
Come-on you love BB but are shitting on him for not developing qbs to what be starters?
I wonder why they never developed a top tier starter after 2000?
In retrospect, Kraft's first HC hire was not a bad one as hated as it was at the time. I would not be so quick to assume that Kriaft hiring BB was pure luck and whomever else he hires will likely suck.
I am shitting on him for the past few seasons. He runs the show. And this year it was one of the worst shows in the NFL.
The results are the results. The Patriots were the 2nd worst team in the NFL.
Name the QBs in the league you think are good who have been drafted after the first round.
Now tell me why we expect the Pats to do better?
Also Jimmy almost won a Superbowl.
The way I see it, they tried for two years to change direction on offense, no FB, no receiving back, no blocking TEs ( I do like Pharoah), seemed to go away from the quicker, gap blocking o linemen; instead going with all average speed slot receivers. Pre snap motion and play action went off the table. Not sure if things were dumbed down for Mac or for the rest of the offensive staff. I thought Josh was exposed when Tom left. When Josh left it really fell off a cliff.
You are on tilt in this thread. You understand that at some point the Pats have to move on from Bill Belichick. He cannot coach until he’s 105 years old.
Just because he once was able to do it doesn’t mean he can still do it. It isn’t about forgetting how to coach, the game pasts everyone by eventually.
The question we are pondering in here is whether that time is now for Bill. I don’t know honestly, but you act as if his track record is the only thing that matters and we should just ignore the turd of a season they just finished.
Absolutely agree. I'm in the camp that he should get another chance, not has a reward for past service, but because I have serious doubts as to whether there is anyone else available who would be better. But he owns this year, to be sure.
Jacoby Brissett, deshaun Watson, Brian Hoyer, Case Keenum... A lot of QBs whose careers were longer and better than expected.
Listen there is a case for moving on from Bill, but it is not because he or Obrien forgot how to coach.
Jalen Hurts, Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson, Geno Smith, Derek Carr, Andy Dalton.
Huh? Someone argued that Mac Jones busting is proof that the coaches are bad, I'm pointing out players bust... And it's usually because of the player not because the coaches suddenly got bad
So five QB going back like 14 years. Really makes you wonder how the Pats never developed QBs to your standards.
Also Jackson was picked in the first round.
Reading this thread, you would come to believe that a QB is the only thing that matters to the success of an offense, and coaching is entirely incidental.
The only path to a good offense is to randomly luck into a QB and there's nothing else. And you can't blame the person who picked the bad QB instead of a good one, or the person who selects the personnel around the QB, or the coach who's job it is to create an infrastructure that develops the QB.
The only path to a good offense is to randomly luck into a QB and there's nothing else. And you can't blame the person who picked the bad QB instead of a good one, or the person who selects the personnel around the QB, or the coach who's job it is to create an infrastructure that develops the QB.
Mac Jones was never going to develop into a very successful NFL QB, no matter the coaching or the surrounding cast, but he absolutely was made to look the worst he possibly could due to the coaching and surrounding cast. I mean, third stringers are coming into games and looking competent every week, Joe Flacco off his couch looks good, are you going to tell me that there's no way Mac Jones could have looked like he belonged on the field at the very least? The fact that he was worse than guys like Tommy DeVito is on Bill (both GM and coach). These days there are plenty of HCs who maximize whatever they have at that position, Bill did the opposite.
To pin all of their recent failures on Mac is insane. They had a physically limited QB who never dealt with adversity on a rookie deal and chose to surround him with garbage in an offense that's very demanding of the QB and very seldom makes things easy for him. They got the only thing they were ever going to get with that arrangement.
To pin all of their recent failures on Mac is insane. They had a physically limited QB who never dealt with adversity on a rookie deal and chose to surround him with garbage in an offense that's very demanding of the QB and very seldom makes things easy for him. They got the only thing they were ever going to get with that arrangement.
Kraft firing BB removes the last barrier between Kraft and a lot of angry Patriots fans. Plenty of meat heads throwing heat at BB, where does Kraft think that vitriol is going to be pointed when he fires the greatest HC of all time and the team struggles?
As for BB landing on a "ready made" roster...I don't think it works. First - who is that team? The Bills maybe? And I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell Kraft let's him go there unless it's for a kings randsom. Maybe the Cowboys if they crater in their first playoff game. That's it. Any other team has big questions.
The other side of the "ready made roster" argument is you don't bring BB to an established team that just needs a final push. BB is an organizational philosophy. He's not going to let holdovers do things their way. He's not going to let guys skate or operate outside of his structure. And that will lead to a lot of issues.
Frankly, if BB were to be canned, hes probably better suited going to a team that needs his organizational leadership. Turning a team around doesn't need to be about winning titles. There are alot of teams that could use his stability in the building. Let him get the wins record over the next 2 or 3 seasons as he builds a franchise, not a champion.
As for BB landing on a "ready made" roster...I don't think it works. First - who is that team? The Bills maybe? And I don't think there's a snowballs chance in hell Kraft let's him go there unless it's for a kings randsom. Maybe the Cowboys if they crater in their first playoff game. That's it. Any other team has big questions.
The other side of the "ready made roster" argument is you don't bring BB to an established team that just needs a final push. BB is an organizational philosophy. He's not going to let holdovers do things their way. He's not going to let guys skate or operate outside of his structure. And that will lead to a lot of issues.
Frankly, if BB were to be canned, hes probably better suited going to a team that needs his organizational leadership. Turning a team around doesn't need to be about winning titles. There are alot of teams that could use his stability in the building. Let him get the wins record over the next 2 or 3 seasons as he builds a franchise, not a champion.
I know you are being sarcastic, but with the way the rules have changed in the last 20 years it's kinda true.Not the drafting part but the need of a good QB.
I mostly agree with everyone who believes finding a QB is what matters in terms of consistently contending, which is why I have no trouble moving on from Bill. Whether they'll be good or not doesn't hinge as much on the HC as it does that piece.
If Bill gets fired, can't he go anywhere that offers him the job? I'm not sure I understand how this compensation thing is supposed to work when he's supposedly getting fired.
San Diego has a bottom 5 defense and are already obscenely over the cap for next season. Have you watched Lawrence and the Jaguars?
Neither of these teams are winning anything next season.
That is not what someone (me) argued. I said that the coaches shouldn’t get a complete pass on his regression after Year 1. Mac sucks and it’s likely he would have sucked regardless, but the coaches own some of his regression.
You seem to not want to blame Bill for anything related to the 4 win season they just shat out, even though he picks all of the players and then is responsible for coaching them up and putting them in position to win.
The reports around the league are that multiple other owners want BB, so he would not be fired but allowed to find another job with compensation coming back for him.
Depends on what his contract says about 2024 compensation and 2024 NFL employment. Draft pick compensation could smooth any potential contractual issues.
Can't he tell Kraft that he wants to come back, and then if Kraft wants to replace him he has to fire him? I guess if both Belichick and Kraft want to move on, then something could happen compensation wise.
so then what do we need BB for if the success of a qb is out of the control of a head coach/gm?
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